2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

Aug 18, 2009
19
0
Cape Cod, MA USA
#1
I tried to cheat, now I pay the price.

Essentially I was doing fine about 4-5 days in with a DE filter, beat the algae battle and was trying to rush opening by a few days. FC was fine overnight and I was going after the "dust" in the water.

I added 2 gallons of Swimsoft C, clarifier which has helped elminate the "long tail" effects to get to crystal clear water yesterday. It did the trick. The water looks pristine and I'm just vacuuming up small white particles, which are essentially gone.

The problem is that now I cannot get Chlorine (liquid 6% bleach) to take. I have attempted to add a full 182 oz bottle and within 10 mins, FC and CC is essentially zero.

I have attempted (using the poolcalculator) to go to 10ppm and 15ppm levels (which are shock levels) and the chlorine just vaporizes.

I suspect that I have too much clarifier, it's combining with the chlorine and it's gone. So now I don't know if I wait for the clarifier to burn off (days?) or if I go crazy on the Chlorine?

The water is crystal clear, Filter is running nice and strong. everyone is clamoring to go swimming, but I won't release them until I can re-stabalize the FC/CC.

Pool size: 10,000 gallons/vinal

Current chem:

FC <1
CC <1
pH 7.2
TA 80
CH < 100
CYA 40
 
Aug 18, 2009
19
0
Cape Cod, MA USA
#5
They are strips, they are brand new and they were working fine right up to adding the clarifier. I am starting to suspect that the clarifier is nullifying the chlorine tests. Which pretty much means I have a summers worth of chlorine in my pool now...

It's crystal clear.
 

Richard320

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#6
dfmcapecod said:
They are strips, they are brand new and they were working fine right up to adding the clarifier. I am starting to suspect that the clarifier is nullifying the chlorine tests. Which pretty much means I have a summers worth of chlorine in my pool now...

It's crystal clear.
AHA! We have a clue!


That clarifier seems to be hydrogen peroxide, and with the amount of bleach you've added.... you've bleached all the color out of the test strips! One more reason we recommend drop tests instead of strips.
 
Aug 18, 2009
19
0
Cape Cod, MA USA
#7
Yes, the clarifier is hydrogen peroxide.

And no, I was getting those strip results the moment I added the clarifier. Before I starting going hogwild on the bleach attempting to restore FC.

I have a drop test kit and will test with that now.

I just have not read anything about clarifier nullifying a FC/CC test... I did search, I didn't find. So if anyone can explain that, I'd love to finish the mystery.

Now I believe I have over chlorinating my pool and now risk damaging my liner. Awesome.
 

Isaac-1

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May 10, 2010
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SW Louisiana
#9
Which kind of drop based kit, high levels will bleach out a DPD color matching kit also, only FAS-DPD can measure high levels of chlorine, OTO can test for the presense of high levels of chlorine, but you can't measure the exact amount as anything over about 5 ppm will look some shade of orange.
 

Isaac-1

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May 10, 2010
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#11
At this point you may want to let things settle over night, then retest in the morning (test both pH and Chlorine) and adjust from there.
 
#12
Agreed. If I had just applied some POP, I wouldn't be posting, but because I couldn't find an identical post describing what I'm going through I'm hoping this helps someone else weighing whether or not to leverage clarifier in a BBB setup.

In hindsight already, I wish I had let the DE do it's thing for 2-3 more days and then added a much smaller portion if not zero clarifier.

I think the answer is directly related to the softswim C clarifier combining with the Chlorine because my pool was already 85% clear and the 2 gallon treatment for 10,000 gallons was meant more for an algae battle opener than a maintainance treatment.

Would need the chemist point of view on this.

It still goes back to my initial question though, for someone else who finds themselves in this situation, will it be l"eave it alone for a few days (POP) or fight it with an abundance of chlorine.

Will test again in the AM.
 

linen

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Jul 30, 2010
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#13
dfmcapecod said:
It still goes back to my initial question though, for someone else who finds themselves in this situation, will it be l"eave it alone for a few days (POP) or fight it with an abundance of chlorine.
I think it may have already been answered by JasonLion, but you need chlorine. Since as you put it "chlorine won't take", or to put it another way, the chlorine you are putting in is getting used up fast, you need to do the shocking process. See: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/shocking_your_pool

Leaving the pool for a few days without measurable chlorine will almost guarantee that you will be fighting algae again. Either way chlorine is the answer, and you may have to hit it often to start with. If it reads zero after a half an hour dosing and circulation, redose to your shock level(and repeat, repeat , repeat, until you start to maintain)...poolcalculator gives me 15 ppm FC shock level for 40 ppm cya.
 
#14
1) I had operated the pool for three days only losing chlorine with sun. Following that very process as I have for 4 seasons.
2) I added 2 gallons of clarifier, (now 3 days ago) and still cannot get a shock to take or even register.
3) Last night, I added EIGHT 182 oz jugs of bleach within 10 minutes, and still ZERO FC/CC readings.
4) That was 6 hours ago.
5) Those readings weren't taken within an hour, they were taken within 5 mins of the EIGHTH jug.
6) Thats more than 4x the shock level

This morning.

1) the Pool remains absolutely crystal clear.
2) Dumping THREE 182 oz jugs at the exact same time (tipping them all over at each outlet)
3) This is 1.3 jugs more than the 15 ppm shock level
4) Taking a drop (OTO) and strip test, it remains at essentially no FC/CC
5) The tests weren't taken 30 or 60 mins later, they were taken in immediate succession

In the last 12 hours alone, I have added 12 182 oz jugs. Registering nothing.

Three different tests, 2 of them strips, one the OTO, same results.
 

duraleigh

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#16
OTO.
Color is showing the lowest possible reading. .2
I don't have an answer to your problem but we all need to get on the same page.

1. Toss the strips. A strip test is virtually meaningless....too much chance for them to be bad.

2. The OTO test does not measure in .2 increments. It is a comparator block (color matching) that matches varying intensities of yellow. Usually found with a pH test on the other side of the block and typically matches those shades of yellow from 1-3 or 1-5ppm.

3. The FAS/DPD chlorine test uses 2 reagents...a powder that turns the sample pink and then a liquid (that is counted by drops) to turn the solution back to clear.

How are you testing?
 
#17
CaOCl2 said:
The hydrogen peroxyde is destroying the chlorine. Until there's no more H2O2 in the water you'll get a near-0 chlorine reading.
This is exactly what I believe is happening, I'm trying to figure out how much Chlorine I will need to add to eliminate the 2 gallons of H2O2.

I was just trying to confirm that H202 will eat Chlorine for breakfast (combines/oxidizes) and it sounds like you're saying it does.
 
#18
duraleigh said:
OTO.
Color is showing the lowest possible reading. .2
I don't have an answer to your problem but we all need to get on the same page.

1. Toss the strips. A strip test is virtually meaningless....too much chance for them to be bad.

2. The OTO test does not measure in .2 increments. It is a comparator block (color matching) that matches varying intensities of yellow. Usually found with a pH test on the other side of the block and typically matches those shades of yellow from 1-3 or 1-5ppm.

3. The FAS/DPD chlorine test uses 2 reagents...a powder that turns the sample pink and then a liquid (that is counted by drops) to turn the solution back to clear.

How are you testing?
Thanks Dave.

The regeant is definitely OTO.
The testing comparator does show the lowest possible shade of yellow as .2
For all intents and purposes the water is clear, the drop test is definitely an OTO test.
The comparator block is gradients from .2 to 5.
 

duraleigh

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#19
Thanks for the clarification. My bad for not realizing an OTO test is incremented that low. It certainly can't detect TC in those increments but now we no what you're testing with for sure.

I have personally never experienced what you are going through with the clarifier. Like JasonLion and CaOCl2 have already said, the answer is simply more chlorine until it finally consumes everything. Swimsoft C should reimburse you or be "drawn and quartered" :lol:
 
#20
Thank you everyone, I did spend quite a bit of time seeing if this topic was covered and did not turn up a very detailed thread. I did believe that the competing oxidizers was my issue but was looking for the chemisty grade answer.

A BBB approach and the Softswim ABC approach are two different systems and I was using the clarifier (the C from ABC) to deal with the long tail cloudiness that I can't seem to solve easily with the BBB approach.

I did accept that yes, I would need to keep adding until I eventually overcame the clarifier, but wanted to make sure I wasn't insane as dumpped 4x, 5x the shock levels and saw it basically vaporized instantly.

If at all possible, can anyone tell me how much chlorine will be required to eliminate 2 gallons of hydrogen peroxide that have been dilluted in 10,000 gallons of water?

Otherwise I'll consider this solved and report back how much it takes for future readers.