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Thread: Ancient DE Filter-Straight Grids-Shot-Need Pool Ready for MD

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    Ancient DE Filter-Straight Grids-Shot-Need Pool Ready for MD

    I'm working on my friends pool when I can get over there. I left there this a.m. after doing some testing and cleaning with the Aquabot.

    Whole family, with grand kids will be there Sunday for Mother's Day and kids will want to swim for sure and appearances are really important to her. So we want to keep the water as clear as possible.

    I can't remember name of her 36 sq ft DE filter, Stainless Steel, vertical straight grids. I took my set from my Nautilus, curved, over but didn't have time to open the filter. But her pool guy was there today and opened filter only to discover the straight grids. It is not the curved grids but the straight. I'm not sure what all is shot inside and I didn't want to talk to him as he is quite resentful about my helping her GET HER POOL IN SHAPE. Anyway she had only 3 minutes to talk. I told her we could get the grids, set, for about $100 on line instead of spending at least $200 at Leslie's. Anyway it appears to be "like" an Anthony Apollo.

    I'm really pressed for time too, as evidenced by my getting there at 0000 and leaving at 0200. I don't know if anything else is shot inside, like the manifold, etc. Hoping to get over there today to have a look. If manifold and other things shot I'm going to strongly advise her getting a cartridge or sand filter.

    The Filter has been shooting out any DE that is put into it for I don't know how long. We're shocking pool right now and finished adding CYA last night. CYA was 0. Get this....... CH 700 Pool guy has been using Cal Hypo for a long time with no addition of stabilizer probably ever.

    I closed off the bottom drain and told her to NOT LET ANYONE BRUSH THE POOL. There's no where for DE and dead algae to go but back into the pool via returns. Water is very clear unless it is stirred up.

    Aquabot is doing a great job but the bags clog up really fast. I can't hang around there to change them out and she can't do it so getting stuff out is going more slowly than we would like.

    I told her to have pg put filter back together, don't add DE, and run filter as we have been doing..... Mainly for circulation. Anyone see any problems with this approach until we can get the grids (and anything else taken care of)? The only way of filtering is going to be the Aquabot and I'll take over a Slime Bag and submersible pump. I don't have my 3/4 hp trash pump switched over to 120 volt yet, or the pipes added, and don't have time to do either until next week. Otherwise I would vacuum to waste using my trash pump.

    I have another bigger Backwash Slime Bag that I'll take over tonight or tomorrow to hook up to second submersible pump but I need to use it this afternoon to backwash my Quad 80. Getting the cellulose off of grids or cartridges takes a huge amount of water, way more than getting DE cleared out so I need to put the water back into pool.

    Question about the filter. Anyone know how many old, 22 years, SS straight vertical grid type filters there were/are? So far the only replacements I've found that look like hers is the Anthony Apollo. I can call a few places online for replacement grids/parts but we just don't have time to get that done before Sunday.

    The pool will be sanitized for sure. She had some algae when we started a few days ago but there has been so much chlorine in there I might have to use a chlorine neutralizer for Sunday. (I have some)

    Couldn't get a good reading of pH last night with such high FC and won't do an overnight test until after we get the FC down to normal levels. It was 7.5 before we started shocking. I'm taking a box of Borax over and she has the baking soda but I hate to have it all sucked up in the Aquabot bag today. Hoping to get that taken care of tomorrow.

    I know I'm rambling. But nothing new about that.

    Any suggestions about anything?

    The other day DH asked me, "You are becoming so smart about all this, why don't you consider starting a business for nursing sick pools to health? And how about Pool Sitting, like dog sitting?" It's a thought .......... but I don't know if I'm up to all the physical challenges.

    Thanks and please offer any suggestion that will help in this emergency.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Ancient DE Filter-Straight Grids-Shot-Need Pool Ready for MD

    Wanted to add the numbers from last night, or should I say wee hours of the morning? I was reading by flood light and strong LED head lamp I have, with some ambient light coming off of pool.

    FC 14 (I'm actually guesstimating on that. I just used the oto test but have the TFT-100 kit I'll use today.)

    pH 6.8 (now I usually get abnormally high pH reading when C is high so not sure what to think) (It was 7.5 the first day I tested. All we've added is liquid 6% chlorine and CYA. Should I assume it is higher than 6.8. I'll recheck today.)

    TA 60 (I guess this is good with CH being so high)
    CH 700
    CYA 50 (that was a hard one to read without sunlight)(Started the quick dissolving HTH several days ago.)
    Temp (Im guessing around 74 but may be a little higher)


    12-14 K in ground 22 year old plaster that's in pretty bad shape but relatively good considering how old it is. It is delaminating some, but she can't even consider replastering now, for money reasons. I can do some patching later.

    No visible staining but we can test later for metals.

    Haven't seen water in daylight but last night it was very clear (unless bottom stirred up) but not nearly as blue as I thought it should be. I'm going over there in an hour or so. When we started earlier this week, water clear and some green algae but not loads of it. We've been shocking all week.

    I've forgotten, is there something I can do to neutralize or dilute the test water to get the chlorine down so I can get a better idea of pH? With CH so high I guess it is best to keep it on low end.

    I may need to bring pH up with Borax but want to keep the TA down, right? She has two fountain jets I can turn on to aerate. (That's until we get the CH down but that will take some time to do.) Plan on replacing about 50% of water but want to do it slowly after get get all numbers in better shape.

    Thanks, gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Ancient DE Filter-Straight Grids-Shot-Need Pool Ready for MD

    BUMP ..... sorry.... but emergency for my friend.
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Ancient DE Filter-Straight Grids-Shot-Need Pool Ready for MD

    This won't really help your present situation because it is after business hours, but you might keep Pool Plaza in mind for similar future circumstances. They are an online retailer with good(not the best) prices, but the advantage for us is that if they have the parts in stock, you can drive over and pick them up. Can't really help with the identification of the filter in question, but if you look at this link, you might get some more ideas.
    20K gal IG plaster pool, Manually chlorinated with 6% bleach, 1.5 HP Sta-Rite Dura-Glas II pump, Pentair FNS Plus 48 DE filter, Polaris 280

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    Re: Ancient DE Filter-Straight Grids-Shot-Need Pool Ready for MD

    Using a Taylor PH test, if FC is between 10 and 15 then the PH reading will be fairly close, probably a bit high (by 0.1 to 0.3). If FC is between 15 and 20 then the PH will be off by more (again higher than actual). If FC is above 20 then just completely ignore the PH reading.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Ancient DE Filter-Straight Grids-Shot-Need Pool Ready for MD

    Quote Originally Posted by Beez
    This won't really help your present situation because it is after business hours, but you might keep Pool Plaza in mind for similar future circumstances. They are an online retailer with good(not the best) prices, but the advantage for us is that if they have the parts in stock, you can drive over and pick them up. Can't really help with the identification of the filter in question, but if you look at this link, you might get some more ideas.
    Yea An answer. Thanks so much. I'm heading over to her house right now. I purchased my Pentair Quad 80 from Pool Plaza. As you said, "Not the best prices" but I have found them to be very responsive to emails and calls. It took me several months to gather the monies for my filter and they kept patience through all my correspondence.

    My friend was very busy today with company and fence guys and pool guy dropping by and doctor call, and picking up prescriptions. He took the filter apart but don't know if he put it back so I can run it. I'm taking my second submersible pump over and will take the Backwash Slime bag over tomorrow in addition to the one I'm starting tonight. Talked to her a little bit ago and she said pool water is a very nice blue.

    I'm losing a lot of time needed here for this and she commented that if they can't swim Sunday, then so be it. OHHHHHHHH??????????????? New development.

    I'm trying to not totally alienate her pg. The only things he said to her today was, "We can do it her way" and "The chlorine is really high." The test kit he leaves over there is kept in the sun, outside, and only has reagent for chlorine.

    She doesn't have time to read Pool School until things settle down, a tiny bit, next week. She wants to keep pg because she really can't physically do much to the pool. She's my best friend so I'm attempting to keep cool.

    I guess I should have pg, as she suggested, start reading Pool School. Don't know if he will though.

    Gotta run.... It has been wonderful to get a response.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Ancient DE Filter-Straight Grids-Shot-Need Pool Ready for MD

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Using a Taylor PH test, if FC is between 10 and 15 then the PH reading will be fairly close, probably a bit high (by 0.1 to 0.3). If FC is between 15 and 20 then the PH will be off by more (again higher than actual). If FC is above 20 then just completely ignore the PH reading.

    Thanks Jason. I'm using the Taylor kit as soon as I get there to get a better reading on FC. As I was battling my spa I got to see what high FC did to the pH test. That's why I was expecting it to be higher than it was last night. It was way lower. I'll know more in a few hours after testing and plugging in her numbers to PC. I sent friend an email at 0400 with numbers and instructions for pg or any one else. Her broadband was down today so she couldn't read it or print it out for pg so that he would know what I'm attempting to accomplish. (I do her computer support so I'll probably just have to reset the "modem".... I hate calling it that as it technically isn't one and I still stumble when someone uses that word for broadband.)

    Thanks and Later, gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Ancient DE Filter-Straight Grids-Shot-Need Pool Ready for MD

    Glad to report that, of this evening, pH 7.5, FC 11.5, CC .5. Didn't get there in time to do CYA. Actually did but everyone came out to enjoy the new gazebo, after Greek pasta and salad. I got there in time to see the nice blue color and it is beginning to sparkle. PG, thank goodness, put filter back together and pump was running with bottom drain closed. Didn't have time to get submersible, with Slime Bag, going and might hold off till after Sunday. The water is really clear and Aquabot is doing a great job capturing all of the DE/dead algae on bottom. This time she said, the pool is becoming dazzling. I told her this is just the beginning. She won't believe how beautiful it will be in a couple of weeks.

    I'll stop by tomorrow and start the Aquabot again and then later one more run Sat night. That should have it looking great for Sunday. Sat night I'll test FC one more time before I leave and get enough bleach in for Sunday without over doing it.

    Next week I'll begin working on other numbers, take filter apart and go from there. Friend said pg reported that no tears in grids so we may be looking at a bigger problem. The older DE straight grid filters have more parts inside to go bad in addition to the manifold.

    Her whole backyard is concrete and wood decking with little blown in fine stuff like I have. With filter running, sans DE, and only Aquabot (the slow one) sucking up the DE and dead algae, her water is as clear in front of the light as mine is with cellulose in Quad 80. So............... considering cost and her very low need for ultra fine filtering should I steer her towards a cartridge filter? Basically the major stuff that goes into her pool is debris from giant Junipers that are a real mess year round. I can't tell what her specific pump size is but it looks to be a Pentair Challenger. It's running fine. Next week I'll see if I can get some numbers off of it. Her electric bill is pretty low considering the pump has been running 24/7 for months so I'm doubting it is over a 1.5 HPSF. It pushes water well and isn't noisy and is pretty old, single speed. The pool is a play pool, 1.5" pipes, about 20 ft from pool. She has a bunch of returns, some of which I restricted down to get more water to the Pool Skim. The suction on both skimmers is nowhere near as powerful as my Challenger 2.23 HPSF or my Intelliflo VF running at <20 gpm but I have only one skimmer and one main drain. Closing off her main drain seems to have little affect on the the skimmers so I'm wondering if the ball valve is really closing it off. Her pad is about 5' above the pool.

    I'll take a look at the Polaris booster pump next week. It is making too much noise to run it although it does push some water.

    The label on filter indicates it is Pacfab but don't have any numbers other than 36 sq ft. Pool is 12-14 K. What cartridge size should I be reasearching? Money is a very big issue. Isn't cartridge the least expensive of three kinds?

    BTW.... broadband wasn't down. Computer plug had worked out a little bit from surge strip. So computer was "down" for lack of electricity. Because of that her network wasn't lit up on broadband "modem" router. We had no time to trouble shoot her issue over phone today. First question is always, "Is it plugged in to electrical outlet?" or word such as.

    Over and out, gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Ancient DE Filter-Straight Grids-Shot-Need Pool Ready for MD

    Update

    This is a Starite Swimquip D36. Eleven straight grids. Cost for replacing all grids >$500.

    She's now soaking them in dishwasher detergent and will do an acid soak today. All have weakening ribs and a wear hole at top just below the tube. Top manifold. Friends pool guy says he will repair them with super glue or such. We'll see how that works. Right now I have two submersible pumps running water through two Slime Bags.

    We can't do the mustard algae treatment until getting filter resolution because I don't want to subject my submersible pumps and somewhat new Slime Bags to that much chlorine for a long period of time. We are keeping the MA, somewhat in check.

    I couldn't get the clamp off because the bolt, nut, washer were "welded" together with rust. No amount of WD40 would loosen the rust. Makes me wonder how long it's really been since pg really opened the filter. Grids are terribly coated with calcium scale. PG purchased a new SS bolt/nut.

    If this doesn't work she's going to have to get that Hayward Pro Sand Filter and I guess I'll do the plumbing which I don't look forward to. Money is a huge factor for her. Having the time is a huge factor for me.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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