New Pool - If you had to do it over again ... ?

GrantsPool said:
additional returns specifically on a step, more specific grading instructions to pb, better planned electrical outlets and switch (my fault)

Ditto on returns on steps. This surely helps to keep the fine stuff dragged into the pool from collecting on steps. Also cuts down on any staining from mud and settled fine debris.

You can't have too many electrical outlets all around. Put in way more than you think you will ever need.

Individual lines to all returns with valves for each return.

At the very least two speed pump. Variable speed or variable flow even better.

Automatic pool cover. Check these out well as some are more trouble free over time and less likely to need expensive yearly repairs.

At least two skimmers plumbed separate with valve for controlling each.'

I really, really like my separate Main drain with valve. (My one skimmer and one main drain are controlled with a three way valve.)

Dedicated return for pressure cleaner, with valve. If I were doing it over I would add, in addition to the the pressure return, a suction return for a cleaner. There are times, for various reasons, I like to use the suction cleaner instead of the pressure cleaner. BTW... my dogs don't get hung up in the suction or pressure lines with them running during swimming. BUT they do get hung up in the cord for the Aquabot so I can only run it when they are not swimming.

Your needs could change over time for preferred cleaner. I like to use the Polaris 280 during high plant debris times spring and fall. I'm now using the Aquabot at night when dogs aren't swimming with flow turned down considerably. It uses less electricity than the suction, as pump doesn't have to have as much flow and the Polaris which needs adequate flow in addition to booster pump. When I get the solar cover, which I'll use only at night for heat retention, I'm going to turn off the pump at night and let the Aquabot do all the circulation and filtering, i.e. 4000 gph to 5000+ gph depending on model.

Check around neighbors to see how much debris they get in their pools during all parts of the year. That will be a great help in choosing a specific type and or Brand of cleaner.

Solar or at least plumb for solar to be added in future.

Automation or purchase other equipment with future automation in mind if not putting it in now. Put in electric box at proper location for addition of automation.

I, my "Favorite Most Trusted Pool Guy", and many pros on TFP have a preference for Pentair products. I think you get an extended warranty from Pentair if three or more main devices are Pentair.

I really like the idea of a toilet with sink handy. Little and big feet surely drag in a lot of water. If you don't want to or can't do a drain from waste you could put in a self contained composting toilet. Of course having a sink for hand wash up is necessary. Again, drain for a small sink can be run into a rock drain "field". We have occasional really hard freezes in Dallas area every so often. Either plan on completely draining a china toilet during those times or put some heating in the water closet. Shower would be nice too.

I would like to have a handy wash up room for equipment (and other uses) (big laundry room type sink and place to dispose of debris from cleaner bags, baskets, etc.) perhaps combined as a mud room. This could, also, be combined with an equipment shed maybe back to back with the "bathroom"/changing room to save on plumbing costs.

More than adequate, much much more than you think you will ever need, storage for pool chems, cleaners and parts, hoses, poles, toys, umbrellas, etc., and especially chair cushions. Not all need to be in an enclosure but nice to have out of sight. Several of the cushion storage benches I've purchased over the years have not been large enough for some of my chair cushions or hold enough of the ones that do fit.

If some of the chairs, benches, lounges require cushions they are a real hassle to take off and put on when using, if stored, for sun protection and/or rain. If some will be exposed much of the time look for the best UV tolerant "fabrics" and best ability to shed water and not become water logged. That, of course, can be something you can add over time. My best, least hassle chair is one with a thick weave material. I've had it five years but it is under an umbrella and protected from the sun most of the time. It does get wet from blowing rain but dries very fast. I'm now looking for cushions for two chairs that are in the sun almost all day. Sunbrella is a great choice but I think the "Outdura" fabric sheds more water with same or better UV qualities and at least as long warranty; maybe longer. (I'm not positive that the name is Outoura.)

Shaded area near pool for many reasons especially watching little ones, entertaining, and just enjoying watching the pool.

I have several areas around the pool where I have placed seating or benches. That way I can choose spots for viewing and/or to get out of sun.

Watch sun to determine angles during year. You might consider putting in some pole mounts, in the concrete, for using patio umbrellas when wanted. This should be an especially low cost thing to add.

In Texas, without a cover on most of time I would certainly want an auto-fill which I don't have. With my wind and sun I can lose over an inch of water during the day and much more with splash-out. Even if someone is home all day to keep the pool topped up consider resale, vacations, etc. I have to manually top off my pool every day.

Ease of access to and around equipment. Equipment protected from sun and rain. Make sure there will be no water flow going up on pad from drain-off from rain or roof or washing anything. If pump gets flooded from having water go over the base and up to motor it is obvious to the seller or manufacturer and warranty won't cover it. You don't want sprinklers hitting the equipment either.

Ability to quickly check the pressure on filter especially if you don't have automation with wireless hand held controller.

Thoroughly check out soil conditions in your area. Some parts of Dallas Co. have extreme issues with shifting soil. I wish my decking was pavers instead of concrete because of some shifting up, down, and around over the years. There are a few big cracks in decking too. Pavers make for much less hassle/cost if any plumbing work/repairs are needed in future.

Decking........... spend a lot of time considering traffic flow to and around the pool. Pool was here when we moved in.

Water flow in yard or decking from our "toad choker" rain storms. Dirty water entering the pool from yard or beds or off of roof and decking can foul up a pool really fast.

One of my friends has a small back yard. It is total decking, concrete and wood. If it weren't for the huge, constantly shedding junipers here pool and pool area would be a snap to keep sparkling and tidy.

I know this is rambling. I'm having my first cup of coffee if that matters. :lol:

Main thing is that my needs and desires have changed over the 24 years of ownership of this house and pool.
 
Wow - now those were some detailed suggestions. I am SO glad I started this thread. :eek:

Couple questions:
- Why individually plumbed returns (as opposed to a single, looped return)? I can request, but with 6 returns on our pool this could become a cost factor ...
- On electrical - are you referring to landscape electrical outlets around the perimeter of the pool? We have a couple dedicated landscape circuits on the back of our house already in addition to what the pool builder is going to add.

Thanks a million!
 
Wow - now those were some detailed suggestions. I am SO glad I started this thread. :eek:

Couple questions:
- Why individually plumbed returns (as opposed to a single, looped return)? I can request, but with 6 returns on our pool this could become a cost factor ...
- On electrical - are you referring to landscape electrical outlets around the perimeter of the pool? We have a couple dedicated landscape circuits on the back of our house already in addition to what the pool builder is going to add.
Thanks a million!
You can never have too many outlets. I have 13 outlets and need more. The wife buys more of those plug christmas things that light up and I have to put them on timers. Ahhhhhhhh I see another project in the making......Put in as many as possible. Also plan for out summer kitchen, electrical, plumbing for sink and water, max out on the number of dedicated breakers, electric smokers, blenders , big flood lights for night time gathering and entertainment, TVs, cell phones, computers, portable boom boxes and other items use lots of power. All of this can come from your sub panel. Also have a min of 100amp sub panel run for future upgrades and add ons like a heat pump. I tied all my outdoor lights, outdoor kitchen, smoker etc to the sub panel.
Plan on putting as many faucets for watering plants, hooking up to solar showers, misting systems with fans to cool off in the summer, etc. Look at our pool build in the sig below.
I hope this helps
 
Wow - now those were some detailed suggestions. I am SO glad I started this thread. :eek:

Couple questions:
- Why individually plumbed returns (as opposed to a single, looped return)? I can request, but with 6 returns on our pool this could become a cost factor ...
- On electrical - are you referring to landscape electrical outlets around the perimeter of the pool? We have a couple dedicated landscape circuits on the back of our house already in addition to what the pool builder is going to add.Thanks a million!


On electrical I'm referring to electrical outlets. When I use the Aquabot I have the power box somewhat close to the house but the 24 volt, floating cord runs about 15-20 ft across the deck to pool in a high traffic area. Doggies running over it even if it is out of the pool and in a near-pool storage container abrades the cord even though they usually hop over it most of the time. It is really a hassle to completely remove the cord and wind all of it up every day and then unwind to put it in the pool at night.

Over the years I've added a lot of low voltage lighting on two sides of the house. I now have about eight transformers, at least four are are 900-1000 watts; possibly more as I haven't counted lately. I've had to add several semi-permanent (not to code) extension cords to power those transformers. I've even started using some led bulbs in some lights to cut down on wattage use for electric cost and to reduce the load on the transformers.

Others will chime in about other needs. I can list more that come up frequently but out of time now.

This probably isn't as important for most people but in the spring and fall I have so much plant debris I have to put in two Pool Skims to collect the leaves and plant debris. I have to fine tune the returns to get enough flow to the Pool Skims even restricting one with a no flow eyeball for one Pool Skim and two Restrictions, either one with much smaller hole or both totally cut off. As my returns are old it is more trouble than would be normal as the screw in permanent pieces are not as evenly grooved as new returns would be. Right now I have one Pool Skim and one return totally closed off. I direct the other two returns so that most of the debris makes it to the one Pool Skim rather than the skimmer which fills up so fast with blowing debris and leaves from the big American Hollies. The Hollies will be finished in a month. With that I can run my new Intelliflo VF for two turnovers/day, about 1500 RPMs, and about 500 watts.

I'm going to think on this one more and possibly some pool gurus can chime in on better solutions. On thing I can think of is possibly putting in a couple or more valves sunk into the decking with covers. As you said any of this raises cost factor.

My closest neighbor, with a relatively new pool and auto cover reports to me that most of the time her auto cover dumps the heavy accumulation of leaves into the pool when she opens it. So she has to run the Polaris (and pump) extra long in addition to pump high speed (she has two speed) and empty both of her skimmers several times a day. I prefer to let the Pool Skims take care of it and if they fill up it doesn't hurt anything like a filled skimmer(s) can.

BTW.... this neighbor is the one who has to do costly repairs to her auto cover almost every year. It gets stuck either closed or open but usually closed.

This neighbor's pool is rectangular with a swim-out ledge on deep end and a beach type, sunning entry on shallow end prior to the steps. I, and all of her frequent visitors, young and old, love that feature.

The pool is pretty large. On one long side she has "normal" width decking but on the other side she can line up about six (or more) loungers pointing at pool, with room between each for a small table, and plenty of room between the end of loungers for "packs" of kids and/or doggies to get by without falling into pool or knocking adults in. The big splashes have to be really big to reach the loungers too. I love that. The only place I can put a lounger is a jut out off deck and only two loungers will fit comfortably. They would, also, be too long to allow the room I want between the end of lounger and pool edge.

Several faucets near pool is a great idea. I have one faucet coming out of the house, which is just a few feet from the pool but I need a bunch more!!! And more on each edge of the adjoining 30' X 30' Trex deck coming off one side of house. There is one faucet at the house for deck. As is I have had to put multi valves on each faucet. For out in yard I run a heavy hose around the parameter of fence going out about 25 yards from house to do watering out there. And then there is the multi-valve on the end of that hose. I have multi-valves on each of the faucets, one per side of house, with a multi-valves coming off the two hoses that go out to front yard. Until I found a wonderful 3/4 inch, pretty light weight hose, that doesn't get stiff in winter (from Gardeners Supply) using the hose all around the pool for plants, deck washing, and many other things was really hard on my arthritis. It's still a hassle and frequently has to be pulled across the pool. I have a multi-valve on the Trex deck faucet with hoses suspended under the deck to the corners of the deck to those add on steel faucets. Painted, of course to blend in. The brass, multi-valves have to be replace yearly. This is all much more hassle than I prefer. Hoses are, also, frequently cut by the yard crew or eaten by the squirrels or dogs. :rant:

gg=alice
 
@Contract/Payment Schedule - I have been pretty adamant with our pool contractors that it needs to be balanced payment schedule (not front-loaded) and explicit contract terms.

One has already opted to "pass" on the build entirely - just after a single email on the topic. Waiting on responses from the others, but expect them to be the same.

Might have to consider DIY. :?

Or, anyone in the North Dallas area interested in GC'ing? :-D
 
you mentioned the possibility of an in-floor cleaning system in your first post. If you (or anyone else reading this) decide to install one, you should make absolutely sure that the in-floor cleaner zones are plumbed separately from the wall returns, with a 3-way valve controlling flow between the two. This way, you can run a two- or variable-speed pump on low most of the time (using wall returns), and only use the cleaner heads on high speed when necessary.

My pool does not have this, and I'm looking into to fixing that. Not sure if it's possible.
 
If you have a flexible job schedule and can be home for the important steps, I would most definitely recommend you GC it yourself. You would save quite a bit. And then each contractor gets paid as they do the work. Just make sure you get lien releases from each one as they get their money.
 
cobra46 said:
If you have a flexible job schedule and can be home for the important steps, I would most definitely recommend you GC it yourself. You would save quite a bit. And then each contractor gets paid as they do the work. Just make sure you get lien releases from each one as they get their money.

Have seriously considered it. I think I am on the "tipping point" of having enough knowledge to do it.

Only issue is locating subs that will work for a Owner/Builder.
 
I just want to say something about expectations. We are in the "endless" middle of our pool renovation. I have been thinking for days now about what to post here to try to forewarn just one other person about getting through this staggering process.

As JeffJeff posted above, there indeed can be this point in the project where everything seems to slow down or grind completely to a halt. It could be because of weather, but just as likely it is because you won't be as important to your contractors as you would like to think you are, and other clients are being seen to first.

So please be aware that while you are putting your energy and hopes into planning and researching what delightful gadgets and features to add to your new pool, as we did, there are other dimensions to the build which may loom up and catch you off guard, spoiling the delight-factor.

Be sensitive to the differences between what the contractors/builders SAY in person to your face they will provide and what is actually provided for in the contract and in reality. The contract may look detailed, but it won't be detailed enough. As just one example, I was expecting mult-page hard-copy drawings/prints (I saw such examples of other client's drawings); I got one drawing via computer of the pool only. I had to sketch up my own drawing of my yard, just to protect myself about exactly how the pool deck and patio was going to be laid out.

This is quite a bit like childbirth--one woman can experience a quick delivery with the minimum of pain and discomfort, while the next can have a drawn out ordeal of considerable pain and unforeseen complications.

Good luck to you~~I hear luck favors those who plan well, which it seems you are doing!

Lana
 
Couple of things I would have done different -

1) Auto-fill and a drain-line in a skimmer. Hate remembering to turn/off the water to keep the level up in the summer, and draining the pool down in the winter when it's raining buckets outside.

2) Raised spa - currently, we have to keep the water-level even/slightly below the spa, or when we use the spa we get water from the pool coming back into the spa. Not too bad in the summer, but it'll wake you up in the winter. #1 above would also have solved this problem.

3) VSP - putting one in within the next few days. Currently running a 2HP - wayyyyyyyyyyy tooooo much - even for a 45KG pool.

4) Intellilink instead of an Aqualink (Pentair vs. Jandy).

5) Lighting - Because of the length of my pool, the lighting doesn't make it well to the shallow end.

6) SWCG - added one a few years back. Wish I would have done it long ago...

7) Follow BBB from the start, instead of the last few years ;)

8) Solar - added later, and well worth every penny.

9) No Ball Valves - have these to adjust flow between the bottom/side returns and the jacuzzi return. Go with a real pool-valve, not something for plumbing sprinkler systems.

10) Got pebble-tech on my pool - and about 20% of the pools I service. Everything else pales in comparison.

11) Get piping as big as you can afford, I have 2, wish I would have gotten 2 1/2. And if there's room at the pad, use sweep 90s at the pad (and underground).

12) Pad room - make sure you have your pad designed before they start cramming 20SF of equipment in a 5SF space. These guys are talented - they really can fit 20SF ion 5SF. Then you got to work in it later.

13) Outdoor shower - thinking about one, wish I would have had it in the master plan.

14) The other suggestions are good as well - plenty of power (got it). But just to be sure before you run your decking, put several pieces of 1" -1 1/2" PVC everywhere you think you ever MIGHT want power, landscape lighting, speaker wires, irrigation water, etc... I did and I love myself every time I find I need to use it.
 

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One thing I don't see mentioned - the location of your pumping station, which needs to be closer to the deep end. My pool was installed with the deep end on the opposite side of the house from my gas meter and electrical panels, making the runs for gas and electric VERY expensive. You may not need the gas line if you don't have a heater, but you will need elecric - and these costs were separate from the pool build costs.

I had a SWCG installed, and wouldn't be without one.

6 returns sounds like lot - is there a reason you want so many? Are those all supposed to be wall returns? I agree with the returns on the steps / swim out / buddy seat - these help with circulation a lot, and they would be dead spots without them. I have three wall returns, two returns at the steps, two at the swim out, and two in the floor. Oh, and a waterfall in the diving board that is only used during parties.

I regret having only one light in the deep end - it has a colour wheel that cycles through colours and looks beautiful at night (especially the purple), but I wish we had gotten another in the shallow end.

I also agree with the PVC piping everywhere under the deck - I did this and running any kind of line under the decking makes this crucial. It is super cheap and you can put it in yourself before your deck is laid / poured. Check your building codes though.

I don't have any automation so can't comment on that, but I've never felt that I needed it - I have regular timers on the pump and booster pump and those suit me just fine.
 
Almost forgot, get separate valves for everything if you can. I have a total of two on the suction side (three way for the skimmers to switch between both, either one isolated, or both off), and one for the main drain. On the return side I have one for each of three wall returns, one for the steps, one for the swim out, one for the waterfall, one for the booster pump, and an automaticone for the in-floor ones that cycles between the wall returns and floor returns. This is a TREMENDOUS help as I can pretty much isolate any one item in the pool. I'll post a pic later.

If your budget doesn't allow for a salt water chlorine generator, they shouldn't charge you to plumb for one (it's just adding a couple of feet to the return lines befor they go back into the ground). Then you have less headaches if you want to add one later.

Lastly, get plumbed for a booster pump, even if you don't install one. You need it for certain types of cleaners (like the Polaris) and adding it later would be a pain if you ever wanted it. I didn't think about it before but this acts like a fourth wall return for me when I'm not using the robot.
 
All - thanks for the newest suggestions. Specifically on the "contract talk" - I haven't been impressed thus far with the pool builder's collective responses on my contract concerns. Driving me even closer to just plan the project myself.

In fact, I took a hiatus this weekend and spent time "redesigning" the pool/deck and some other things directly on our Survey. So, it's within 1/10th of an inch accurate. Maybe will post a pic soon and you will all have more suggestions. ;-)
 
As promised, here's a pic of my pumping station - from left to right, the first three valves are each of the three wall returns, the buddy seat returns, the step jets, the floor jets, the diving board waterfall, the main drain, and the two skimmers (three way valve). The flexible hosing running in front of the filter is to the booster pump for the cleaner, which also has a little valve and acts as a fourth return. The little black thing is an automatic valve thing that cycles between the wall returns and floor returns every five minutes or so.

Water flows into the filter, then (underground) to the heater, then the salt cell, then the various returns.

16516548.jpg


I am thankful to have everything plumbed separately like this, it makes find problems very simple, and maintenance super easy.
 
baudilus said:
As promised, here's a pic of my pumping station

This is great! I am just starting to design the plumbing/valve setup. A schematic of your would be very nice. ;-) Am I missing the SWG, or is it plumbed in behind some of the pipes (or just not easily visible)?

Also, do you have 3 total returns (or do the 3 valves split later as they route back to the pool)?

I will throw together my schematic for feedback here in a bit.
 
The SWCG cell is on the rear pipe between the heater and filter. There is an electric panel behind the filter where the rest of it is.

Each of those return valves closes one pool return, I have a total of three (if you don't count the port for the cleaner).
 
Added my current thinking on the valve schematic and assume 2.5" pipe on the suction side. Also, I drew it on there, but actually I'm not sure anyone makes a 1.5HP Variable Speed Pump ... seems like they are all well over 2HP (2.6 and up).

On the discharge side, I'm not sure there is any value in running each return individually (so I paired them), but I do want at least 6 returns.



valves.jpg
 
You plan to use a 4-way valve between the SWG and the returns? It may actually be cheaper to use a ball valve for each pair separately, but in the grand scheme of pool costs, the savings would be negligible.

Each of mine is actually a diverter valve that when "diverted" just stops water flow.

The valve closest to the pump is actually unnecessary, as you can use the skimmer's or the drain/vac's valves to shut off water completely (to winterize).
 
Yes - I see what you mean by the redundant valve on the suction-side.

Something like this? I may just not understand the proper symbol for plumbing the returns.

ValvesV2.jpg
 

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