Black Algae / Pebble Tec / Zero Chlorine Always

[ebrogan1]

Hello All,

We bought the house in October of last year so this is the first summer that I am actually taking care of the pool and I have already spent around $1000 to maintain the pool and try and fix a black algae problem. My wife is going to kill me if I dont get this fixed cause we are throwing way too much money into this pool just to have an available chlorine reading.

I know that you are not supposed to use a wire brush on Pebble Tec but I am at my whits end, so I broke down and got one. I have used the Leslie's black algae killer and I don't think that it is helping. I know that there was previously black algae in the pool when we bought the house only because I noticed the bottle of Black Algae killer on the side of the house. And I can see where the previous owner went to town with a wire brush ans scrubbed all of the pebbles out of some places down to the cement.

Last night I threw 5 pounds of Chlore Brite granular chlorine in the pool before going to bed. That is 4x more that the maintenance dose I use per week. When I woke up this morning and tested the water I had Zero chlorine in the pool. I have two pool chlorine floats (one in the pool & one in the spa). The pool float is loaded up with 4 3' tabs and opened up fully, and the spa float has 2 3' tabs. With all of this chlorine I should get a reading but it is ALWAYS ZERO!!! I know that it is not phosphates or nitrites because I got the water tested and I did a partial empty and fill. I am at the point where I am thinking of renting a sub pump from home depot, draining the pool, pressure washing the black algae wall with liquid chlorine and then refilling the pool with new water. Would this be advisable??? All that I want is to have the black algae gone and be able to have a chlorine level in my pool at all time instead of zero chlorine all the time.

I know that you are going to say you need a water test and I will get the water tested today and post the results tomorrow, the one thing that I can tell you is that after putting in all of that granular chlorine last night it dropped the PH below the lowest acceptable level. Any help, thoughts, ideas, anything please!!! Will draining, pressure washing with chlorine then refilling with new water help???

 

[Demegrad9]

Welcome to the forum!

First, major thing is to take a breath, this can be fixed but you'll likely need to drain some water. You basically have experienced what most people who come here have, you've been 'Pool Store'd'. Meaning that the pool store probably did your testing, sold you a bunch of non-sense at a very high price and caused endless frustration. At this point, I'd accept your past lost time and $$$, but move forward and learn the TFPC method.

First, stop using ANY form of solid chlorine, it's liquid chlorine, i.e. bleach ONLY.

Second, you can not trust pool store testing, they are inaccurate and confusing. You have to buy either the TF100 or K2006 test kits.

Once we start to get a real sense of where you pool water is at, we can start fixing it.

Order a proper test kit right away, and in the meantime while waiting for it to arrive, add a full gallon of the strongest liquid chlorine you can find each day.

 

[Richard320]

The problem as I see it, is lack of knowledge. It's really a shame you didn't find us a thousand dollars ago.

You have a couple situations.
1) Black Algae
2) Algae
3) Almost certainly too much CYA.

The black algae we know about because you can see it. The algae I am surmising because you lost chlorine overnight. A lot of chlorine. And only two things consume chlorine: sunlight and organics (algae). Since you lost it overnight when solar losses should be minimal if nonexistent, you have algae. The high CYA I am surmising because you are chlorinating with trichlor, which adds CYA as well as chlorine, also very acidic, and chlor-brite, which is dichlor, which adds even more CYA and is also acidic. The mystery of your crashed pH is solved.

The high CYA also renders whatever chlorine you add ineffective, until you get up to about 7% of the CYA value. To actually get a kill level, you'd need to be at about 40% of CYA. And guess what: a steady diet of trichlor pucks and weekly dichlor shock can easily push the CYA level up over 200. That means a shock level of 80 free chlorine! There isn't a tester made that can even read that!

So at this point you're ready to start pumping. I'd be willing to gamble that it will end up at that, but the problem will likely return unless you take control of things. So at the moment, the first, best thing you can do is to reach for the plastic and order a test kit. I use a TF100 and a speedstir. The other alternative is the Taylor K-2006. You probably won't find it in a pool store, but they will be quick to sell you a K-2005 and assure you it's the same. It's not.

Then start reading the articles here: Pool School - Getting Started, especially the ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

When you have your own test results for the CYA, then you'll know just how much water you need to replace in order to get the CYA to a manageable level. We can help you figure that. We can walk you through most anything, provided you have accurate test results. Test strips aren't accurate enough, nor, in our experience here, are pool store tests.

 

[Jimrahbe]

e,

Welcome to TFP.. a great place to find the answers to all or your pool maintenance questions, even if everything doesn't smell like Roses in Roseville...

The key to everything we do here at TFP, is based upon accurate testing.. We don't just dump in bucket loads of stuff and hope it works. We only add what is needed based on test results.

We need a level playing field.. We need to know that your test data is based upon the same technology as our test data, so that we are always comparing apples to apples.

Take a trip through out Pool School and see what we are all about.. Pool School - Pool School

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ebrogan1]

Thank you all for the help so far, and I wish I had found you guys over $1,000 ago.

Two things I forgot to mention:
1. I tried two gallons of liquid chlorine over the weekend. I had put them in around 10am and by 6pm there was zero chlorine reading.
2. After i added the 5 lbs of chlor-brite to the pool yesterday I ran the filter for about 9 hours. Does running the filter eat chlorine? Should I not run the filter when I am adding chlorine/shocking?

Oh and I just ordered the K-2006 from Amazon, should arrive tomorrow at some point, so I can test the water myself tomorrow night when I get home I am hoping.

 

[skimmerswimmer]

Did you read the SLAM article? The M is for maintain...you need to keep your FC at shock levels.

 

[Jimrahbe]

e,

If you did not get the K-2006C, you got the wrong one... The standard K-2006 has little tiny bottles of reagent and won't last long enough to clear your pool.

Filters do not eat chlorine, algae and sunlight consume chlorine. If you have very high CYA you can dump in many jugs of liquid chlorine and it will not help.

Jim R.

 

[ebrogan1]

I deffenitly did not buy the K-2006C... so I canceled the K-2006 order and then placed an order for the K-2006C. Only problem is no Amazon Prime shipping on this one and it will not arrive until next Thursday.

I pose the question, is it going to be cheaper/more effective to SLAM the pool, or to just drain it and refill it?

Against my better judgement I am going to take a sample to the pool store tonight to have them test it, so that I can at least get my PH and Alkalinity back to where it needs to be before SLAMING.

What should I use to SLAM the pool? The Chlor_Brite that I already have, liquid chlorine, or straight up bleach? I know that the amount will be dependent on what the CYA level is but need to know what I should use.

I cannot thank you all enough for all of the assistance.

 

[Demegrad9]

Thank you all for the help so far, and I wish I had found you guys over $1,000 ago.

Two things I forgot to mention:
1. I tried two gallons of liquid chlorine over the weekend. I had put them in around 10am and by 6pm there was zero chlorine reading.
2. After i added the 5 lbs of chlor-brite to the pool yesterday I ran the filter for about 9 hours. Does running the filter eat chlorine? Should I not run the filter when I am adding chlorine/shocking?

Oh and I just ordered the K-2006 from Amazon, should arrive tomorrow at some point, so I can test the water myself tomorrow night when I get home I am hoping.

To answer your specific questions.
1. Since we know you have algae, this amount of chlorine consumption is expected.
2. The filter does not eat chlorine and you should definitely run the filter/pump when adding chemicals

Definitely read up on the SLAM method and there's a pretty good YouTube video on it by INYO pools I believe. Make sure you search youtube for the INYO Pools video, it's called 'How To: Clean A Green Pool'

 

[mknauss]

Bleach and liquid chlorine are the same thing, just different concentrations. Liquid chlorine, if you have an economic source, is best.

Be wary of the Inyo Pools you tube video -- it is ok for a general view but not all parts of it conform to the SLAM Process process here at TFPC.

Take care.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Do NOT use Chlor Brite for anything if you're dealing with high CYA. Its just going to add yet more. ANY solid form of chlorine, be it granular or pucks, will add CYA.

That's why we harp so much about using just liquid chlorine or plain, unscented, un-thickened, non-cloramax type bleach. It has *nothing* in it you don't want.

Can you tell us what all you've added in this past year (that $1000. dollars stuff) so we can eyeball the list and check for products that may still be causing problems. Copper containing algaecide is a good example. If your copper level is more than 0.02 you may be experiencing stains that you assume are algae.

If so, a good healthy drain/refill of x amount of your pool will be a good thing.

Maddie

 

[Jimrahbe]

I pose the question, is it going to be cheaper/more effective to SLAM the pool, or to just drain it and refill it?

e,

Assuming your CYA is over 100, you are going to have to drain at least half of your pool anyway.. If this were my pool, it would already filling up with clean water..

But the cost of my water is fairly cheap and I can fill my 17K pool for about $50 bucks. Not sure what your water costs would be..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ebrogan1]

It will not break the bank to drain it and refill it, as it would probably be around $60.

Things that I have bought from Leslie's Pool Supply Store:

Chlor-Brite shock
Fresh & Clear shock
3" chlorine tabs
Prefect Weekly - (two cap fulls once a week to combat phosphates)
Cartridge Cleaner - (degreaser to clean filter cartridges)
** I did not get all of the cleaner off before re-assembling the filter and my pool looked like I put laundry detergent in it, bubbles everywhere!
Anti Foam - (something to clear up all of the bubbles from the degreaser
Clear Aid (to help with the bubbles and cloudiness)
Alkalinity Up
Soda Ash
Black Algae Killer
Skill It (regular algae control)
Ultra Blue Clarifier

I think that is about it. I still need to know when I should be adding all of these things. Do I need to add the chlorine before the Alkalinity up, can I add them both at the same time, if not what goes in first and how long do I wait before putting in the next thing... Such a pool owner newbie... SMH...

Thanks for all of the help.

 

[Jimrahbe]

e,

Sorry, but I don't see anything on your list that I would ever add to my pool...

Obviously, if you plan to drain the pool you should not add anything, and take back everything that has not been opened.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Silver_2000]

the chlor-brite you keep adding is adding .9 ppm of cya for every ppm of chlorine

• For ever 1ppm of FC added, Di-Chlor will increase CYA by 0.9ppm

in your case pool math shows that every 1lb of chlor-brite adds FC of 4.4 and CYA of 4
so the most recent 5 lbs did nothing for the chlorine but raised the CYA by 20

the 7 pucks floating each raised the CYA as well - i dont have the math handy but lets assume 2 ppm cya per puck

Now we are at ~35 ppm cya just from the stuff in the pool in one day

Im sure some of the other stuff you added also has CYA in it
PoolMath

As has been stated STOP with the chlor-brite and all the rest of the pool store stuff - nothing will help till you test for CYA and get it down
As was suggested you could start with removing half the water and refilling while you wait for the test kit
Im not sure i would waste more $ adding more chlorine to a pool with CYA thats likely over 150

Some of the experts here can refine my math better

 

[ebrogan1]

Hello All,

So here are the test results that I got from Leslies Pool Supply Store last night... I want to say that I dont know how accurate these are. There was only one employee in the store and he was trying to answer phones, ring up other customers and do my water test all at the same time... He seemed to be doing my water test REALLY FAST and FRANTIC...

FAC = 0
TAC = 0
CH = 260
CYA = 100
TA = 120
PH = 7.0
Base = 1
Copper = 0
Iron = 0
Pho = 0

I think that it is funny that the CYA range they gave is between 30-99 and we me sitting at 100, the employee said that my CYA was "a little high". Isn't that just high?

Anyway, I got fed up with everything chemistry related and rented a sub pump from home depot last night and I have drained about 3/4's of the water out of my pool over night. I am going to continue draining this morning and go get some liquid chlorine, put it in my pressure washer and clean all of the exposed pool surface today. Any thoughts, comments, feedback welcome and helpful.

 

[Richard320]

Hello All,

So here are the test results that I got from Leslies Pool Supply Store last night... I want to say that I dont know how accurate these are. There was only one employee in the store and he was trying to answer phones, ring up other customers and do my water test all at the same time... He seemed to be doing my water test REALLY FAST and FRANTIC...

FAC = 0
TAC = 0
CH = 260
CYA = 100
TA = 120
PH = 7.0
Base = 1
Copper = 0
Iron = 0
Pho = 0

I think that it is funny that the CYA range they gave is between 30-99 and we me sitting at 100, the employee said that my CYA was "a little high". Isn't that just high?

Anyway, I got fed up with everything chemistry related and rented a sub pump from home depot last night and I have drained about 3/4's of the water out of my pool over night. I am going to continue draining this morning and go get some liquid chlorine, put it in my pressure washer and clean all of the exposed pool surface today. Any thoughts, comments, feedback welcome and helpful.

You'll be starting fresh, no doubt.

You'll still need a test kit, so this situation doesn't happen again. Keep the surface damp as you fill so it doesn't dry out and crack.

 

[mknauss]

I would skip the pressure washer. Lots of potential to damage the plaster. Just fill it up and SLAM Process.

 

[Silver_2000]

Hello All,

So here are the test results that I got from Leslies Pool Supply Store last night... I want to say that I dont know how accurate these are. There was only one employee in the store and he was trying to answer phones, ring up other customers and do my water test all at the same time... He seemed to be doing my water test REALLY FAST and FRANTIC...

FAC = 0
TAC = 0
CH = 260
CYA = 100
TA = 120
PH = 7.0
Base = 1
Copper = 0
Iron = 0
Pho = 0

I think that it is funny that the CYA range they gave is between 30-99 and we me sitting at 100, the employee said that my CYA was "a little high". Isn't that just high?

Anyway, I got fed up with everything chemistry related and rented a sub pump from home depot last night and I have drained about 3/4's of the water out of my pool over night. I am going to continue draining this morning and go get some liquid chlorine, put it in my pressure washer and clean all of the exposed pool surface today. Any thoughts, comments, feedback welcome and helpful.

IF Leslies uses a visual CYA test, keep in mind its not accurate above 100.
So his 100 really likely just means HIGH to you

When you get your test kit you can run a diluted CYA test to get an idea where you are. Instructions are in the forums here ....

But hopefully, by then you will have enough fresh water in the pool to get below 100

 

[ebrogan1]

Hello All,

Well I am now done draining, spraying chlorine & pressure washing the pool and spa. I did try and keep the walls and exposed surfaces wet through out the process. All together the pool will have been without water for about 48 hours. I am really hoping that this will help with the Black Algae that I have been fighting, and will make it so the pool will hold a Free Cholrine level.

Two questions that I have now:

What are the next steps when I do have the pool completely filled?
1. Do I need to run the filter like normal? Should I rinse the filter cartrages before running the filter?
2. What kind of stuff will I need to put in the water right away? Chlorine? Calcium Hardness stuff? So far it is just the water that I am putting in and nothing else.
As reluctant as I am once it is filled I will take a sample to the pool store and have them test it only because my K2006C will not be here till next week.

I noticed in the spa that it looks like there may be some cracks.?.?.? but I dont know for sure. I have attached pictures of the pool and the spa cracks for everyone to chime in on. It stood out to me because it looks like the area is still wet when no water has touched that area over night. Any help advice, next steps would be most appreciated.