DIY Build in Arkansas- Off to a rocky start

Hojo76

0
Silver Supporter
Jun 20, 2016
63
Central Arkansas
Pool Size
23760
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Hi everyone! We have been planning and dreaming of a pool for years, and finally decided it's now or never. First, I will run down the equipment and plans. Then, I will get on to the first of MANY questions and advice needs. All are GREATLY needed and appreciated.

IG 16x36 rectangle steel wall kit with 8' vinyl over steps
8' deep end with no diving board
Ecostar VS pump
30" Hayward sand pump
2 skimmers
2 main drains (if possible)
3 returns
Wants include-
2ish' rock retaining wall with 5' sheer descent waterfall along entire deep end (we will need the wall due to slope of yard)
Low voltage LED light/lights (just enough to make pool safe, not see from space)
Hayward Aquarite SWGS for 40k gallon (hoping to come in under budget and start with it, but want it plumbed and ready either way)

So, the kit came in a couple of weeks ago and damaged part replacements arrived this week. We got excavation quotes from 4 different guys/companies ranging from $6000 to $12,500 (which is the reason it has taken us this long to get started.) We decided to take the bull by the horns and start digging ourselves on 7/22/18. We figured that best case, we would dig the whole thing for a $500 weekend rental. And worst case, we hit rock six inches down and have to regroup. Our optimism paid off and we were able to dig out the majority of the shelf. That is until we hit rock in the deep end. It was a hard sand stone that would break up but not really well with the midi excavator we were using. After conceding that we should leave rock to the pros, we left them to work it while we were on vacation. We chose the biggest company who also had a good reputation, were very willing and responsive, and ironically, the least expensive. They anticipated it would take a day and a half. At about 5.5', the sandstone turned into serious rock. It took two extra days of them working until 9pm to hit 8 feet (more than half a day on the last 6 inches). They had to twist and turn and move all around to get at it, but they did. Unfortunately, the shelf in the deep end is gone. We realize that this is not ideal and that the fix will not be easy, but we are confident that it can be overcome with some great advice from TFP. I will try to upload pics of the predig, our DIY dig and the rock excavation. Our initial thought is that we will need to rebuild the shelf with concrete block, rebar and concrete, but we would love any and all suggestions on this matter.

I had planned on asking y'all about fun stuff in my initial post, but that will have to wait until this is resolved. I will be needing advice on LED lights, valves, timers and the waterfall to start off, so feel free to throw your ideas at me anytime. I very much appreciate the advice I have received from this site as well any I will receive in the future. Thanks for reading!

PS. Yes, I originally laid the pool out with cans of corn because I'm kooky like that. :tongue:
 

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Hate to say this but wouldn't it have been easier to make it a 6ft pool or raise the deck up w the dug earth and get it above rock?

Anyway i are going to have to form it with concrete I wouldn't bother using block if it was me. I would pour the deep end hopper floor amd make it wider by a foot around. I would make forma in plywood for the hopper walls and pour them too. Then u would have a shelf in deep to tie into shallow shelf. Stick some rebar in after drilling hole thru forma to be ready to tie diff pours 2gether. U can pour the bottom and sides a little short if u want to vermiculite them for the softness feeling. There's no diy way to bring in soil and compact it to be able to rebuild the shelf. Only masonry
 
Your lot is all that and a can of corn.

I like hilly sites for pools!

Unfortunately I don’t have any advice on your main pool question. I look forward to watching.
 
Hate to say this but wouldn't it have been easier to make it a 6ft pool or raise the deck up w the dug earth and get it above rock?

Anyway i are going to have to form it with concrete I wouldn't bother using block if it was me. I would pour the deep end hopper floor amd make it wider by a foot around. I would make forma in plywood for the hopper walls and pour them too. Then u would have a shelf in deep to tie into shallow shelf. Stick some rebar in after drilling hole thru forma to be ready to tie diff pours 2gether. U can pour the bottom and sides a little short if u want to vermiculite them for the softness feeling. There's no diy way to bring in soil and compact it to be able to rebuild the shelf. Only masonry

Well, we already have the entire kit and liner. The rock guy is self described as stubborn and he spent a lot of the week talking his guys off the ledge. He really didn't clue me in to how bad it was until after they were done. We were in Florida at the time.

We have teenage boys and know that the pool will be used for diving even without a board. We figured better safe than sorry on the depth. We are already building on the pool on the downside of a hill and we think raising it would look odd. Your suggestions are very much in line with what my husband was thinking. We are going to need to get it all cleaned out before we can know exactly what we are dealing with. I assume that any rebar we use will need to be tied into the ground wire. Is that correct? Thanks so much for your advice!
 
U don't need the simple rebar ties to be bonded. I'm talking a few pieces to tie the pours 2gether so they don't slide w groundwater in future. Clean it up get loose stuff up amd pour the floor. While wet throw a few short pieces on perimiter angled like jopper walls. When u pour hopper walls they tie in. U could also dry set the walls if u have the manpower to mix in the hole w alot of bags of prefix cement. I did 30 bags solo in half a day on mine
 
Smart move keeping it at 8'. You and I both know they will dive in so........good move keeping it.

Rock digger-stubborn and having to keep his guys going...........man I bet the air was blue with all of the adult words said LOL Good for him for getting it done.

LOL on the cans of corn. Bet the kids were hoping they would stay out there! Hey what ever works. Much easier than pounding stakes in!

Kim:kim:
 
Gotcha, jimmythegreek! That makes total sense. Thank you!

Of course, we have been on a burn ban all summer due to lack of rain and I swear, it has literally rained some every day since the rock guy left. :rolleyes: My husband was wondering if we could do the hopper then do the slopes and walls at the same time. But we won't be doing much until the mosquito factory goes away. We haven't even been able to get a good measure on the depth of the entire hopper yet because of the rain, but what are thoughts on losing the main drains if we can't manage to get enough depth on our own to set those. What are the pros/cons of not having them?

Glad you agree on the depth, kimkats. They are 13 and 15, and I'm starting to think doing exactly what you are told not to do is in their DNA. I'm just glad I wasn't here when the rock guys where working. I probably would have felt sorry for them and let them talk me out of 8', then I would've had a huge headache dealing with returning a liner that was the last of that pattern they had for the season. I was actually ready to order last season. When I called to order, they said they were out of our liner. It crushed all momentum and I didn't think about a pool for months after that. Same thing almost happened this year, but the guy pulled some strings and found just enough to make one more. Thank goodness! I really had my heart set on Black Granite.

Thanks again for the feedback!
 

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No main drains is okay. They are NOT required. The rules are for when you DO have them. They have to be anti-entrapment. I will tell you though with a 8' deep end they might be wanted to help circulate the water. That can be overcome with enough returns placed in the correct spots. You could even have a return towards the diving "bowl" to help move the water there.

When you decide which way you are going to go let us know so we can help set up your returns if you go that way.

Kim:kim:
 
first things first get a sump pump in that hole and leave it in there. use flexible sump line to get up to grass and then hardpipe it away from house or downhill. keep it dry going forward run an extension and make sure its a vertical float model. If you can find a spot in the deep end that you can sink half or a whole 5 gallon bucket do that and drill alot of holes w a drill to make a sump pit out of it. Then get in there and measure what you got for depth, just by looking at pic I dont think you have the depth you need, you have it in the middle where water is but thats not big enough for the hopper floor. If you have the depth you need, you will fill w crushed stone and pour the deep end hopper floor out of concrete. I wouldnt bother leaving it low to skim w vermiculite you wont ever stand on that section. use rebar on angles like we said. you will make a plywood form for the hopper walls Id start w back short wall first and this will be your hopper wall AND the base for panels. Fit plywood best you can to whats left of the hole and then just block it up w anything to keep concrete in. Then side walls same way and you should be able to do the long transition wall by hand w bags if its close, if not do in sections or make a form and pour. If your husband or whoever is working on this has experience w concrete and making forms you can do 3 walls in one shot w the right forms, I get the added cost of the concrete delivery and material but your stuck now.

theres no shelf in deep end but it doesnt matter at this point, the theory of not overdigging is you want panels on virgin soil. since yours is gone the next best thing is concrete on virgin soil and panels on that.
 
Thanks, kimkats. I will definitely be hitting y'all up about plumbing. I know we have places that will be deep enough for main drains, just not sure if they are where they need to be and if we have enough for two of them. Honestly, I haven't even looked to see how far apart the drains have to be. In my mind, the rock excavation was a lot like the part in Armageddon when Ben Affleck is trying to reach 800 ft. :lol:

And thank you, jimmythegreek for all your advice! The sump pump has been giving it all she's got, but the rain just keeps coming. All my farmer friends wish I would've started this pool earlier this summer so we could've had this rain then. ;) Gosh, I hope we are at depth in the middle. That deep end is about 24 feet wide at the deep end because it kind of caved a little so they backed it up a bit. Hopefully, it just looks off scale in the pic and isn't. I don't imagine we will know for a while with rain coming every day. I will be touching base as we get some progress. Thank you so much!
 
So, we are still hammering away, (jack, that is). We were at 8ft when the rock guys quit on us. Unfortunately, it was not in the right place. I've been jackhammering on it almost every day for a couple of weeks. We are very close (and very tired) and need advice. :brickwall:

As you can see in the pictures posted originally, our lot slopes downhill. There will be a retaining wall with a concrete pad at the deep end. Drains are planned there. I can't decide what elevation we need for the pool. As of now, the pool and back porch are not connected, but that is something planned for the future. If the pool is higher than the porch, won't that force water to drain toward the house? Should we plan to keep it the same height as the porch and just slope the water away from the house on the sides? I know it will mean more rock breaking, but I don't want to cause water issues down the road.

Also, the hopper is on a solid sheet of rock. The main drain instructions say we need 18" holes filled with 14" of rock. Is this necessary if they are on solid rock? Two 1' holes 18" may not sound like much, but it would take me a hard week or more. But if it only really needs to be 6-8" or so including the 4" of concrete, it's probably worth it. If that is out, instead of foregoing the drains altogether, can they be placed on the sides? And what advice do you have if we need to go that route? Any advice is very appreciated. We've gone this far and don't want to take the easy way out if it causes problems later.

Thanks in advance!
 
Do not install main drains. They are not needed. Should help at least with that part of the plumbing.
 
Oh happy days ahead! I'm so glad you kept it at 8'.

Even without a diving board everyone under 30 that I know tries to dive in my pool and my pool is way too shallow. I'm constantly having to remind them. I truly messed up not having a diving safe pool. I miss diving myself to be honest. Used to be my favorite thing to do and then swim underwater all the way to the shallow end. <sigh>

Can't wait to follow along in this build with you :)

Maddie :flower:
 
Get rid of the main drains. I get u got them with your kit but they are more work than they are worth I don't have them neither do lots of members.

Ur grade dictates the pool height. If ur ground slopes away u want ur pool coping to end up slightly higher than spot next to house and slightly higher than existing grade. Water must run from a pool. As u go down the pool stays level so u will have a slope of ur deck on sides and may need small retaining walls as u get to other side. U can angle the sirt down but u don't want to go too far unless u plan to fence pool in around ur deck than the fence can be the barrier and u can slope down a ways behind fence. If u attach some pics from other angles we can see better. Instead of Jack hammering for weeks have u thought about renting an excavator or a machine w operator if u guys don't know how to operate for a day? Time is money a small machine w hammer will make quick work of that rock to finish up ur shape. I remember this thread ita been a while and u have to do alot of concrete work yet to get walls up yet. R u in a winter area where ur out I'd time soon?
 

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