What is the benefit of using bleach vs pucks?

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C

CaliforniaGirl

0
Jul 25, 2015
8
Lodi, CA
I am relatively new to TFP methodologies. Prior to re-plastering our pool in November2017, we had used pucks in a floating dispenser. My husband took care of the pool and I knewnothing about caring for it. Since there-plaster, I have taken over the care and have turned to TFPC. My numbers are perfect (aside from the pH whichneeds continual adjusting due to the curing plaster), the water is sparklinggorgeous, but I need to add, on average, a 128-ounce jug of bleach everyday. My understanding is thatsubscribing to TFPC ways is less expensive than the alternatives. However, a jug of bleach is approximately$3.00. Multiply that by 180 days (closeto six months) and that is $540. Asix-month supply of pucks from Costco is at most $80.00. Aside from the issue with the accumulation ofCYA from the pucks, using the pucks seems to be more cost effective as well asless labor intensive (compared to having to constantly purchase jugs of bleachand pour into the pool each day). It’s true I am not using other chemicals otherthan Muriatic Acid, so perhaps that keeps the cost down, but a $460 differencebetween pucks and bleach in a six-month period is significant. Am I missing something here?
My chemical numbers are:
FC 6-7
pH 7.4
TA 90
CH 300
CYA 40
CC 0
Temp 84.4 F

Our temperatures have been around 100 degrees and we haveno swimmers.

Please advise/enlighten!

Thank you.
 
:wave: Welcome to TFP!

The buildup of CYA is the major disadvantage of relying on pucks. So you have to include costs of water replacement in its budget.

Also, it is very unlikely that while you are using pucks, your pool is safe and sanitary because the chlorine level needs to rise corresponding to the rising cya. If you are not regularly testing the chlorine and adding additional chlorine to compensate for the higher cya, your pool May more easily turned green and is not likely safe in the sense that bacteria and viruses in the water are not killed fast enough.
 
I've never used pucks for chlorine but from everything I've read about them, they do not dissolve fast enough for me to use them for my primary source. I would end up throwing 8 or 10 or 12 of them in the water at the same time before I eventually had such a high cyanuric acid level that I'd have to empty half my water and begin again.

Ugh!! What a pain. I'd rather shop for better prices on liquid chlorine.
 
Adding a tablet a day (which is what it takes to raise the FC 2ppm in a 30k gal pool) is going to raise your CYA by 1¼ ppm per day so in 180 days your CYA will be 216 ppm higher than it is now. That's the downside of using tablets. If you can afford to replace almost the entire volume of pool water twice a year, then using tablets would be feasible for you.

I'd say that you need to find a place that sells stronger bleach (aka. Liquid Chlorine, Liquid Shock, etc.) at a cheaper price, and buy your bleach there.
Even check local pool stores. Some of them sell 10% or 12.5% bleach in returnable containers pretty reasonable. Some farm stores also sell it.
 
Bama Rambler said:
Adding a tablet a day (which is what it takes to raise the FC 2ppm in a 30k gal pool) is going to raise your CYA by 1¼ ppm per day so in 180 days your CYA will be 216 ppm higher than it is now. That's the downside of using tablets. If you can afford to replace almost the entire volume of pool water twice a year, then using tablets would be feasible for you.

I'd say that you need to find a place that sells stronger bleach (aka. Liquid Chlorine, Liquid Shock, etc.) at a cheaper price, and buy your bleach there.
Even check local pool stores. Some of them sell 10% or 12.5% bleach in returnable containers pretty reasonable. Some farm stores also sell it.
Click to expand...

I've also recently read that some supply stores for Pressure Washer services offer strong bleach (like 12.5% concentration) in reusable 5 gallon buckets. There's one near my office that sells 5 gallon refills for $13.00. Once my current supply of Wally World chlorine runs low, I'm heading over there. ;)
 
I would say I use bleach as my primary. My Kroger has 8.25% for 2.99 and Lowes has liquid chlorine at 10% for 3.98 so I figure it comes out about the same and Kroger is more convenient. I do however, use these as well. I find them convenient and gives me a peace of mind that my chlorine won't drop too low in between bleach additions. It doesn't have the stabilizing agent in there to raise my CYA. They're a little on the pricey side but I don't use them as my primary source. I kind of run it in conjunction with my bleach so they last longer. I have a 17,000 gallon abg pool and I don't use 1 gallon/day of bleach, more like 1 gallon every 2/3 days depending on the amount of swimmers and heat of the day. My CYA runs around 30, I think if I bumped it up, it would last even longer.

Hydropool.com | POOLIFE Active Cleaning Caplets Pool Chlorine 5.65 lb - Item 22222
 
stargazer1018 said:
I would say I use bleach as my primary. My Kroger has 8.25% for 2.99 and Lowes has liquid chlorine at 10% for 3.98 so I figure it comes out about the same and Kroger is more convenient. I do however, use these as well. I find them convenient and gives me a peace of mind that my chlorine won't drop too low in between bleach additions. It doesn't have the stabilizing agent in there to raise my CYA. They're a little on the pricey side but I don't use them as my primary source. I kind of run it in conjunction with my bleach so they last longer. I have a 17,000 gallon abg pool and I don't use 1 gallon/day of bleach, more like 1 gallon every 2/3 days depending on the amount of swimmers and heat of the day. My CYA runs around 30, I think if I bumped it up, it would last even longer.

Hydropool.com | POOLIFE Active Cleaning Caplets Pool Chlorine 5.65 lb - Item 22222
Click to expand...

So, in this case it adds calcium to your pool, not cyanuric acid. I suppose as long as you understand what it is adding to your pool, then no harm, no foul. I found this in a thread (from quite a while back) that explained calcium hypochlorite fairly concisely.

(see comment #2)
https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/66158-Why-use-Calcium-Hypochlorite
 
I just read here, in another thread, someone explaining/calculating how much more expensive pucks are than liquid. Is it even possible that Costco is selling pucks for that much less, that they will actually add the equivalent amount of chlorine? C-girl, are you sure your math is right? How did you determine that $80 batch of pucks is actually six months worth?
 

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I did liquid chlorine for a year and just converted to a salt water chlorine generator.

It’s either pay now or pay as you go. Also since our pool never closes ( yes we may have 2 months in the winter that the water falls below swcg temps) so a swcg is the way to go, imho
 
With pucks, according to Pool Math, you would have to completely dissolve over 1.5 8oz pucks in one day, just to make up for 'normal' FC loss of 3ppm. It's been a while, but I don't think they dissolve that quickly.
 
The quote below is from a 2012 thread. It doesn’t take into account cya rise and water replacement.

https://www.troublefreepool.com/thr...e-cost-per-effective-chlorine-liquid-v-powder

rock said:
I drove all over San Jose, California today to run a price survey of supplies off the shelf at:
a) Leslie's Swimming Pool Supply
b) Home Depot,
c) Lowes
d) Costco (seasonal item only)
e) Hasa (two different suppliers, 3 different prices)

Armed with the"chem geek" calculations I was able to compare the 6% & 12% (nominal, see "chem geek" details here) liquids with the solids dichlor, trichlor, & calcium-hypo given real Silicon Valley prices (pre tax, and rounded to the dollar when within a couple of pennies of the dollar):

1. Household bleach
Costco = $9/182 fl oz x 3 bottles, nominal 6% = $2.11/gallon
Safeway = $3.89/1.42 gallons, nominal 6% = $2.74/gallon

2. Pool bleach
Hasa = $21.44/8 gallons = $2.68/gallon (See note C)
Hasa = $11.72/case (where a case is 4 gallons) with a minimum sale of 36 cases delivered COD, nominal 12% = $2.93/gallon (See note D)
Home Depot = $6.86/2 gallons, nominal 12% = $3.43/gallon
Lowes = $6.90/2 gallons, nominal 12% = $3.45/gallon
Hasa = $18.40/4 gallons = $4.60/gallon (See note C)
Leslie = $10.49/2 gallons, nominal 12% = $5.25/gallon

3. Dichlor
Costco = $55/24 one-pound packets, see note A = $2.29/pound
Leslies = $122/40 pounds, 55% available Cl = $3.05/pound
Lowes = $70/22.5 pounds, 99% dichlor, 56% available Cl = $3.11/pound
Home Depot = $80/22.5 pounds, 99% dichlor, 56% available Cl, See Note B = 3.56/pound

4. Trichlor
Home Depot = $75/37.5 pounds, 99% trichlor, 90% available Cl = $2.00/pound
Costco = $84.79/40 pounds, 94.05% trichlor, 84.65% available Cl = $2.12/pound
Lowes $75/35 pounds, 95% trichlor, 85% available Cl = $2.14/pound
Leslies = $80/35 pounds, 90% available Cl = $2.29/pound

5. Calcium hypochlorite
Leslies = $107.19/25 pounds, 73% available Cl = $4.29/pound

Here are the "chem geek" calculations for available chlorine per pound:
1. Household bleach
Costco = $9/546oz * 128oz/gal * 1gal/9.0pounds * 100pounds/5.7pounds = $4.11/pound of available Cl
Safeway = $3.89/1.42 gallons * 1gal/9.0pounds * 100pounds/5.7pounds = $5.34/pound of available Cl

2. Pool bleach
Hasa $21.44/8 gallons x 1 gallon/9.7 pounds x 100/10.8 = $2.56/pound of available chlorine (see note C)
Hasa = $11.72/case * 1 case/4 gallons * 1gal/9.7 pounds * 100pounds/10.8 pounds = $2.80/pound of available Cl (see note D)
Home Depot = $6.86/2 gallons * 1gal/9.7 pounds * 100pounds/10.8 pounds = $3.27/pound of available Cl
Lowes = $6.90/2 gallons * 1gal/9.7 pounds * 100pounds/10.8 pounds = $3.29/pound of available Cl
Hasa = $18.40/4 gallons x 1 gallon/9.7 pounds x 100/10.8 = $4.39/pound of available chlorine (see note C)
Leslie = $10.49/2 gallons * 1gal/9.7 pounds * 100pounds/10.8 pounds = $5.01/pound of available Cl

3. Dichlor
Leslies = $122/40 pounds * 100/55 pounds = $5.55/pound of available Cl
Lowes = $70/22.5 pounds * 100/56 pounds = $5.56/pound of available Cl
Home Depot = $80/22.5 pounds * 100/56 pounds = $6.35/pound of available Cl
Costco = $55/24 pounds * 100/36 = $6.37/pound of available Cl
[EDIT: See posts below for calculation of Costco 4-in-1 intimating $6.09/pound of available Cl
$55/24 pounds x 100/55 x 85/58.2 = $6.09/pound of available Cl [/EDIT]

4. Trichlor
Home Depot = $75/37.5 pounds * 100/90 pounds = $2.22/pound of available Cl
Costco = 84.79/40 pounds * 100/84.65 pounds = $2.50/pound of available Cl
Lowes $75/35 pounds * 100/85 pounds = $2.52/pound of available Cl[/b]
Leslies = $80/35 pounds * 100/90 pounds = $2.54/pound of available Cl

5. Calcium hypochlorite
Leslies = $107.19/25 pounds * 100/73 pounds = $5.87/pound of available Cl

Note: While I was there, I researched the comparison prices of the following:
6. Muriatic Acid:
Leslies = $14/2 gallons of 29% HCl = $3.50/gallon of 14.5% equivalent
Lowes = $10/2 gallons of 14.5% HCl = $5.00/gallon of 14.5% equivalent
Home Depot = $11/2 gallons of 14.5% HCl = $5.50/gallon of 14.5% equivalent

7. Cyanuric acid:
Home Depot = $20/5 pounds = $4/pound
Leslies = $24/4 pounds = $6/pound

8. Soda ash:
Leslies = $66/50 pounds = $1.32/pound
Home Depot = $8/6 pounds = $1.33/pound

9. Calcium Chloride:
Leslies Hardness Plus (unlabeled but store said it's Calcium Chloride) = $45/25 pounds = $1.80/pound
Home Depot = $11/5 pounds = $2.20 pound

Note A: Costco item #175121, "aqua chem Shock Plus 4 in 1 pool shock 24 pack, EPA REG No 67262-27 telephone 800-252-7665 (see this thread for how we arrived at the the 36% available chlorine)
Note B: Home Depot DiChlor Pooltime.com 800-252-7665 (they said the available chlorine was 56% but I suspected it's 36% based on what we learned from aqua chem which is the same company. However, calling PoolTime back (which incidentally, is the same number as aqua chem - it's just a different option), Anita tells me that product number 22891PTM 'is' 57%!). So you never know if they don't tell you.
Note C: Update: 408-252-6280 888-POOL-GUY at 12361 South Saratoga-Sunnyvale Road, Saratoga California, 95070 with a $6.00 deposit has a normal price of $18.40/4 gallons for Hasa liquid chlorine ($4.60/gallon) but they often run a 2-for-1 special (you only pay the tax on the original amount for the second case ($21.44/8 gallons) at http://www.yourpoolguys.com/specials.html which then turns out to be 2.68/gallon.
Note D: Hasa (hasapool.com) doesn't sell to the public so I called the Hasa Northern CA office at 925-432-3866 who told me to call Redwood City 650-365-0441 who will deliver 36 cases of 12.5% at 4 gallons per case at $11.72/case COD including shipping.

Q: Can we get better prices than this?
Click to expand...
 
Another alternative to bleach or pucks is a SWG.

Look at the life cycle costs of a SWG + salt + some increased MA. It may be the most economical over a 3 -5 year period.
 
I'm having more trouble learning how to post than I did learning TFP (although I am clearly still learning this pool stuff)! Thank you to all who provided input to my question - great support and I greatly appreciate it. I am currently using 6% bleach (purchased at Costco, three 121 oz. jugs for $9.00) so I will look for bleach with higher percentage and also look into some of the sources suggested here. The answer/reply to Dirk's and MrBfromNC's question/comment regarding my math and puck usage - I based that on history; our usage of pucks before the re-plaster was about one 40 lb bucket of Clorox Pool & Spa Extra Blue (purchased at Costco) that lasted about six months. The pool doesn't get used, ever, so perhaps that helps explain a little as to why we managed on one bucket of pucks twice a year. Thank you again to everyone.​
 
If you are buying bleach at Costco it is Clorox with Cloromax. That is not recommended as it has additives than can foam and add things to the pool you do not want.

Your puck usage never followed the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]. And as you continued to add CYA with each puck, your FC requirement increased, but the pucks did not dissolve any faster, so you quickly dropped below minimum FC for your CYA.

And those pucks added copper.
 
The bleach does have Cloromax. I had read on TCP to avoid using Cloromax however I have been unable to find bleach without it - I even looked online. I have been given a couple suggestions here to look into regarding purchasing chlorine from places other than market type stores. I'm hopeful I find what I need close by - I am actually an hour south of Sacramento in a small, wine town. Unfortunately we didn't know about TCPC or testing with the Taylor kit when we were using pucks so we have no idea how out of wack our chemicals were all those years!

- - - Updated - - -

P.S. I also need to look into SWG.
 
Try Walmart. Most carry 10% liquid chlorine in their pool section. Typically located near the Garden Center. Indoors.
 
Seems like you could save yourself some trouble with an SWG. Keep in mind, though, come winter your water will be too cold for the SWG to function, so for a few months each year you'd still have to dose with liquid chlorine.
 
Lowe's has a store in Lodi. They carry KemTek liquid chlorine. Box of 2 for $6.86. Look for their pool supplies. Home Depot is there too, not all have the liquid chlorine, but you can get muriatic acid there. Good luck!

4A328872-FA2B-4A56-8500-48C116480761.jpeg
 

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