Losing the Resistant Mustard Algae Battle

An interesting read, but I'm surprised so many TPF regulars acquiesced with regards to the chlorine. I thought I was in for a good old fashioned whodunnit TPF mystery, but the ending was anti-climactic. There aren't algae resistant to chlorine at TPF levels. If OP's problem was truly algae, then one or more of the test kits was faulty. It's as simple as that. If the chlorine and CYA tests were correct, then the issue wasn't algae. I hate an unsolved mystery.
 
An interesting read, but I'm surprised so many TPF regulars acquiesced with regards to the chlorine. I thought I was in for a good old fashioned whodunnit TPF mystery, but the ending was anti-climactic. There aren't algae resistant to chlorine at TPF levels. If OP's problem was truly algae, then one or more of the test kits was faulty. It's as simple as that. If the chlorine and CYA tests were correct, then the issue wasn't algae. I hate an unsolved mystery.

It is not about figuring out a Mystery. The science behind the TFPC methodology is all based on a large population and experience on what works, and what is necessary, without the added expense of adding products that are really not necessary. It is very rare that any pool owners should ever use copper for algae treatment. There are other items that can be used, but that is based on where the small percentage of pool owners can not keep the pool under control, and that is usually because of bad circulation (and algaecides are recommended) and once in a blue moon a phosphate remover. Although, there are members that have super high phosphates that keep a pool still under control. Very seldom "chlorine" is not the solution.

Indeed this pool is a mystery, but the side affect was some sort of staining, which will probably never be removed. Hopefully Pharmcoder will eventually get to the root of the problem. We do not like to see these type of issues.
 
I didn't see it in the thread, what kind of DE powder is the poster using? I had terrible issues with HTH filter aid and had to clean the filter grids with a dryer brush to get it off then added regular DE powder from the pool store and now it's fine. HTH wasn't sticking to the grids at all so I wasn't really filtering. I'd be interested to see if the DE was sticking to the posters grids properly.
 
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Hi Serious1,

what kind of DE powder is the poster using?

I have gone through 3 bags of pool store DE and 2 boxes of Clorox brand DE (I bought at Lowe's when I panicked at 9 PM on a Friday night upon realizing I had back-washed without checking the pool cabinet to be sure I had an extra bag). I now by 2 bags at a time a the pool store after that fiasco.

Thanks for trying to help me figure out something tangible for why the pool didn't respond to a procedure that should have worked (definitely so after 2 months).
 
Holy Cow! I can't believe it: someone else who has the EXACT same experience as me!

I have just read your entire thread with utter fascination, as I have been fighting the same battle as you. I had originally posted last fall about my mustard algae issues. The short story is, I had a brand new fiberglass pool installed last summer (2017). The pool installer was horrible, put the pool in the ground (with water from a truck), then never returned to finish the job for 2 months. Meanwhile, the water sat untreated. New to pool ownership, I had no idea what that was doing to my pool water. When they finally turned the pool over to me in late August, it was a swamp. I quickly started reading the internet to learn how to clean it up, and came across this site. I followed the SLAM procedure and the water cleared, all except for some brownish looking stuff that I assumed was left-over dirt from construction. To keep my story from becoming too long, suffice it to say that I eventually realized it was not dirt but mustard algae. So our brand new pool was never able to be used, and I, like you, spent 2 solid months following to the letter every instruction on how to kill the mustard algae, with no success. (I only had that long because of a very mild fall.) I finally gave up and closed the pool in November. When it was opened in May, the same battle started all over again. I too have a SWG that I have not even used because I'm trying to get rid of the algae first. I too have spent all my free time brushing and vacuuming the pool, have maintained FC at up to 150% of CYA for weeks at a time (and never letting it drop below 60% of CYA), and whenever I think you may be winning the fight, I get up in the morning and there is one tiny spot of mustard algae still there, which then grows. My husband also got mad at me for spending so much time on the pool, said I should just listen to the people at the pool store, but of course I have been reluctant to use anything not recommended on TFP. (We are now getting divorced, btw.) I have read anything and everything on the subject, both here and elsewhere. I feel I have become an expert on pool chemistry. Of all the reading, my favorite posts are the ones by ChemGeek, (what ever happened to him?) and I have pored over everything I can find by him on the subject. I love good science. And yet I can't beat the zombie algae, as I have come to call it.

Like you, I have started to look for anything else I can possibly try, as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. When I had posted here last fall, I got the standard replies: beginning lessons on the SLAM process, reiterating the rules, etc., which, like you, I appreciated. But after all I've been through, I know what is supposed to be working, and it's not. I also had the same thought as you regarding this being a particularly resistant strain of mustard algae. I am a physician, and I know that in medicine we are constantly seeing bacteria that mutate and become resistant to antibiotics. Whereas 50 years ago, penicillin killed just about any strain of bacteria, there are now plenty of bugs that aren't touched by it. That's what organisms in nature do - mutate to find ways to protect themselves. It is certainly very reasonable to think that this particular strain of mustard algae has mutated to make itself incredibly resistant to chlorine. And those numbers for the mustard algae SLAM by ChemGeek were all theoretical. There was never any large, controlled study done to prove that those numbers were absolute truth. From reading his stuff, I think he would be the first to say that. He never claimed that there couldn't be exceptions to the rules. Those numbers were what seemed to work for most people. And they were formulated several years ago. Many new mutations could have happened since then. The point is that I have come to the same place as you -- the TFP method is great and works in the overwhelming majority of situations, but there are some very rare instances (like ours) that require at least some modification to the standard approach. I had also come to the conclusion that there must be a biofilm protecting it, because I passed the OCLT over and over again, had clear water, and yet the mustard algae was always still there. I figured if it wasn't causing the chlorine level to drop, the chlorine must not be getting to it. Truth be told, as of a few weeks ago, I had pretty much given up and assumed there was nothing I was ever going to be able to do to kill this algae. But today I thought, maybe I need to try to check for phosphates and try to treat them, as I had never gone that route. I signed on here just to read up again on phosphates and see if anyone else had posted about mustard algae, and, lo and behold, I came across your thread. (I was always thinking, there must be SOMEONE else out there dealing with this. But all the posts from people who had MA seemed to revolve around using a sodium bromide product and dealing with problems from that. I never saw anyone who actually had dealt with mustard algae come on and say they defeated it using the mustard algae SLAM technique and everything was now great.)

So you have no idea how excited I am to read your story and find someone with likely the same strain of mustard algae that I have, (I'm in northeast Ohio, not far from the Pennsylvania border), who has been fighting it religiously for months on end like I have, and has had the same lack of results. But it sounds like you finally won, and I'm so encouraged by that!!! I did not know there was a product that could attack the biofilm. I am going to look into it right away. Thank you, thank you!!
 
To: ndcailin and pharmcoder -

No one likes NOT having a resolution at the end of the day. Given the troubles and length of this process, I would highly recommend you test for "phosphates". You might as well give it a shot. Purchase a good test kit from Taylor Industries. In addition, I would only recommend using Sea Klear or Orenda to treat the pool, and not the weak pool store products. If your levels are low (under 500), personally I would not treat the pool, but anything over yes. There are situations where this type of testing is warranted and this is one of them.

In addition, if you clear this up, even a weekly dose of Poly-Quat 60 may be in the picture. We try to maintain our pools in the most cost effective way, without added expense. The mustard algae is usually seen to be problematic with concrete pools, not vinyl or fiberglass. It is very likely that environmental conditions exists near your area, which is causing this problem. Please keep us posted with the progress.

This reminds me of when, after 18 months of pool ownership, my screws were showing signs of rust, and not before. Just showed up out of nowhere. Galvanic Corrosion had just set in that area and nowhere else. Put a stop to it with a Zinc Anode.

- - - Updated - - -

Phosphate Removers (Long Article) Interesting

Phosphates.....are they worth removing??

Shelf Life: Phosphate Remover, Colloidal Silver

Below is an updated thread:

Trouble Free Pool
 

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Catanzaro,
Thank you for the reply and for the links. I am finding the information on phosphates very interesting and would certainly bet my levels are high. I think I will go ahead and test for them. Thanks for the info on the good products to use too.
Regarding the Poly-Quat 60, is that something that I need to wait to add until the algae is gone (if that ever happens), or might it help to get rid of the algae?
Thanks,
Cailin
 
Catanzaro,
Thank you for the reply and for the links. I am finding the information on phosphates very interesting and would certainly bet my levels are high. I think I will go ahead and test for them. Thanks for the info on the good products to use too. Regarding the Poly-Quat 60, is that something that I need to wait to add until the algae is gone (if that ever happens), or might it help to get rid of the algae? Thanks, Cailin

Merely stating that testing should be done prior to even considering adding a PR. Poly-Quat will not work unless the pool is free of algae, as it is there to prevent, not remove. Only chlorine will kill algae. Phosphates are food for algae, so the higher levels will speed the reproduction process up. High chlorine levels eliminate 99.99% of the time the use of PR removers or algaecides and this is why we highly do not recommend them. In this case, it is your last option because of resilient algae.
 
Catanzaro,

Thanks for all of the info.

Since I had Phosphate remover on had, a phosphate level that hovered a little over 500, and a nitrate level of somewhere between 5 -20 I decided to do a phosphate treatment too. I figured that eliminating as many of the contributors as possible could only help keep this beat down.

I've also been keeping my FC at 15% of my CYA level and brushing every day.

If I let my FC drop below that, I will see a few tiny spots in the shallow end where the most shade falls and some tiny sand spots in my step's dimples. It is a far cry from having to keep my FC at nuclear levels to increase the amount of time before gray and white spots/patches emerged everywhere.

The biofilm tabs I'm using supposedly take 2 - 3 weeks to have full effect, so I'm hoping that between those and decreasing the food supply I will eventually be able to take my CYA/FC to normal SWCG levels instead of that for mustard algae.


I want to thank you all for trying to help me (and others) beat this stuff.
 
If I let my FC drop below that, I will see a few tiny spots in the shallow end where the most shade falls and some tiny sand spots in my step's dimples. It is a far cry from having to keep my FC at nuclear levels to increase the amount of time before gray and white spots/patches emerged everywhere.

Maybe this was answered previously, but what about circulation in the areas of question. Are you 100% positive that water movement reaches these areas? In addition, do the spots only appear after pump is shut down, or have you been continuously running the pump 24/7 and never shut it down?
 
This is an interesting thread, and while I am pretty new to all this, the ultimate issue and solution appears rather simple and obvious. Pool School makes it pretty clear that brushing is a required component of fighting mustard algae -- presumably to break down the bio-film. It seems pharmcoder was unable to break down the bio-film through brushing alone -- perhaps there was algae located inside the light or other small areas that the brush could not reach. Ultimately, it appears that the problem was only fixed by using an anti-biofilm product.

Thank you for posting all this, I think it's information that could (and apparently has) be important to others in similar circumstances.
 
Ultimately, it appears that the problem was only fixed by using an anti-biofilm product.

The problem has not been completely solved as of yet.

The biofilm tabs I'm using supposedly take 2 - 3 weeks to have full effect, so I'm hoping that between those and decreasing the food supply I will eventually be able to take my CYA/FC to normal SWCG levels instead of that for mustard algae.

Please advise on what tabs you are using as I am not familiar with biofilm tabs. We are almost at 100 posts. Please provide some updated pictures as well.
 
I ordered a Taylor phosphate testing kit, and it registered right around 1000 ppb, so I decided to treat my pool with phosphate remover. I ordered some Orenda product, as was recommended here, and today I poured the recommended amount in the pool. I have been reading through information on this site about using phosphate removers, and I keep seeing that if I have a sand filter (which I do), that I should add a "polymeric clarifier". What is that? I have a bottle of "natural clarifier" (chitosan from crab shells) that I was sold by a pool store in the past, but what is a polymeric clarifier? Will it do anything else to my pool that I need to worry about?
Thanks for any help. Really hoping that this will help me finally win my mustard algae battle.

Cailin
 
I would advise simply letting the filter work a day or two before stressing about any additional products to help with any cloudy water that may occur. If you have any DE on hand it may help, but odds say any clouding will filter out quickly.

BTW,
Do you by any chance have the PoolMath App? I’d love to take a look at your history if you do to see where all could improve.
 
I keep seeing that if I have a sand filter (which I do), that I should add a "polymeric clarifier". What is that? I have a bottle of "natural clarifier" (chitosan from crab shells) that I was sold by a pool store in the past, but what is a polymeric clarifier? Will it do anything else to my pool that I need to worry about?

Do not add any clarifiers as the Sand Filter will clear up the pool naturally. At 1000 ppb, your water will only remain cloudy, at most for 24-48 hours.

My water cleared up within 8 hours and the pressure increased maybe less than 1/2 psi. Not only did I not backwash, but I added Fiber Clear and still to date have not backwashed. Since opened, almost 4 months ago, not once have I backwashed, so pressure has been pretty good. If your pressure rises 25% above normal, then backwash.
 
I apologize for not checking in and answering questions lately. We have been getting sons into college and visiting family in Florida up until a couple of days ago. It has been hectic.

Maybe this was answered previously, but what about circulation in the areas of question. Are you 100% positive that water movement reaches these areas? In addition, do the spots only appear after pump is shut down, or have you been continuously running the pump 24/7 and never shut it down?

I never had mustard algae before this season and hadn't changed how we angled the returns.....but in addition, I had been brushing the whole pool a minimum of 2 times a day....hoping that would be a plus. The pump runs continuously 24/7.

Please advise on what tabs you are using...

The tabs I have been using are called Aquafinesse. I used 4 in my skimmers the 1st two weeks and have been using 2 in my skimmers (replacing each as soon as the previous one is mostly dissolved) thereafter.

The night before we left for the trip, I vacuumed to waste, brushed the whole pool, dropped the pH to 7.4, and raised the FC to 30 with liquid 12.5% chlorine, and set the SWCG to 80%. I did have a neighbor empty the skimmers while we were gone. So...the pool was not brushed for approx a week. I dreaded returning to the pool, but there were only a few gray patches in the shallow end and a white sandy strip on part of a seam in the shallow end. I feel the Aquafinesse has definitely been helping.

Also, my copper reading has been zero and my phosphates are down to zero as of 5 days ago.

The problem has not been completely solved as of yet.

I am hoping that it has been solved. I say "hoping" because I have read several cases of mustard algae that seemed resolved only to reappear 2 weeks or more later...ugh. I decided to use a PolyQuat 60 algaecide (dosed at "if some algae is present " - 11 to 17 ounces per 10,000 gal) when we returned from our trip. I used 12 oz per 10,000 because that was all I had on hand at the time. So far, the pool has been algae free at a normal SWCG Cya to FC level and brushing the pool once a day.

I guess I will add a maintenance dose of polyquat 60 every 5 days from here on and continue to use the Aquafinesse.

Please provide some updated pictures as well.

I will try to get decent pictures of the awful white patches/stains this stuff has left behind. My liner looks awful.

I know my current method is not TFP. You can't possibly know how much I wish my pool could have been fixed by that method.
 

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