Losing the Resistant Mustard Algae Battle

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Yeah! If it’s cloudy there right now (no UV rays from sunlight) and your FC went down 5.5PPM in about 5 hours, then you have organics (I.e., algae) eating up your FC. Keep up with the SLAM process.

pharmcoder said:
Hmmmm......It has been mostly overcast here today (raining now) and the FC went from 23.5 at 8 AM (I was late starting today) to FC of 18.0 at 1:30 PM. The CC was 0 for both readings.

At 11 PM last night, the FC was 24 and CC was 0.5.
Click to expand...
 
Another Update:

I hesitate to post this because I don't want to upset anybody on the forum. I absolutely love this site and it has saved me money, time and heartache. But...my husband demanded that I change course, or the pool was to be covered over for the winter ASAP.

Here’s a recap of the journey so far.

My enemy started off looking like patches and streaks of sandy dirt (which is what I thought it was) while the water looked like glass. MY FC and CC would pass the OCLT, but I would see either light brown patches or white sandy patches on the floor and in the seams. There would be what looked like sand in the indents on the steps and on the skimmer surfaces. It started in the shallow end but did end up in the deep end also. It seemed to brush up easily for a while, but then the vinyl started feeling somewhat slippery under the pool brush and some strange stuff started showing up that was difficult to brush or even vacuum. I have brushed multiple times a day, vacuumed to waste several times, have taken the ladder out of the pool, and all equipment stays in the shallow end receiving treatment when not being used. I have done this since mid-May.

Okay....here it goes. I committed a TFP sin at the demand of my spouse.... I researched and decided to use a chelated copper algaecide. I was scared to death to use it. The only other time I've ever added anything other than the basic minimal to our pool was Green to Clean for our first green algae outbreak (before finding this site). I have been keeping my FC at mustard algae SLAM level, I started off with a pH of 7.3, have been brushing at least 2 times a day (brushing any recurring patches in between those 2 brushings), and have been running my VS pump on 2400 - 2900 RPMs 24/7. Those were also things that I was doing pre-algaecide. There has been a TON of rain here since starting the treatment, but within 12 hours I noticed that brushing created an unbelievable amount of "dust" clouds (even from the walls) and my pool was difficult to see into. And....it started to use up the chlorine. The first day resulted in a lot of light sandy colored patches. It almost seemed like it was fighting back.... weird, I know. Yesterday, the pool was still cloudy, but I could see the floor better. Also, the brushing created sparse white dust clouds with only a few darker ones. The recurring spots had decreased tremendously and were only white dust. Today is the 3rd day. My FC is holding well and there is only the tiniest amount of white in one spot of the shallow end. Also, the pool water is clearer. I think this strain needs a 1-2 punch to be defeated. This is the 1st time since opening that the cycle appears to be different. I don't know why but it seems to be working.

Also, I have not put the Dolphin pool cleaner in yet this season because I didn’t want to expose it to what was in the pool and risk re-contamination by using it.

In the future, I plan on adding a polyquat 60 algaecide on a weekly basis and I will shock with chlorine once a week. Pre-mustard algae, I just balanced chemicals, ran the SWCG and put the Dolphin cleaner in the pool 3 times a week, which worked well.

I want to thank those who have offered me advice.

I will continue to update and hopefully, will not need to seek further assistance with this particular issue.

And....I am still a firm believer in the TFP method and it will always be my first choice.
 
Hello P...

How are you today!!!

I see you've gone ahead and used chelated copper algaecide. Just note that copper can stain the pool surfaces or turns hair green as I've heard on this forum. I've never used it in my pool so don't quote me on that, but that's what has been the experience of people who used it. The rule of thumb is if you can't test it, don't add it because you really don't know what your current copper level is right now. Nevertheless, if you're comfortable with what you're doing and it works for you then all is good. Basically, chlorine alone, at the appropriate level relative to CYA, should and will prevent algae growth (without algaecides or copper).

Nevertheless, I wish you great luck on this and please keep us posted. :D


 
Pharmcoder:

I read your # 44 post 3X. I have a few questions for you.

1) You state that there are 3 skimmers, 3 returns and one main drain. In a pool of that size, I would guess that there are dead spots for circulation. No matter how long your run the pump, if chlorine is not being circulated in that area, dead spots will show signs of weakness.

2) If you vacuumed the whole floor and brushed the walls, would your pool water look crystal clear? Even if you ran the pump for 12 hours, would it remain crystal clear, or you would still see what you believe to be algae or at least mustard algae.

Remember that you have had very bad weather out in PA (I know because I was in Hershey and everything was closed). With the rain and winds blowing out there, in addition I believe you may have some areas of farming where these conditions can cause a little havoc for your pool.

What I am looking for is to determine if you are still experiencing any algae spots on the walls or floor? My pool, once the pump shuts down, especially after a few bad storms has a lot of debris on the seams, floor edges and walls, which is all due to settling. If there are no storms, no strong winds, the pool floor and walls will remain debris free, even with filtering of 6 hours.

Describe the condition of the pool floor, walls, etc. Is it near or far away from the 3 returns in the pool. That is quite a large pool for only 3 returns. Thanks!
 

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Hi Catanzaro,

I'll try to answer your questions by number.

1) Is the water being turned over at least once per day? How many hours are you running the pump?

I leave my pump running 24/7. Since I began this battle, I have had it turning 50 - 60 gal/min.

2) If you vacuumed the whole floor and brushed the walls, would your pool water look crystal clear? Even if you ran the pump for 12 hours, would it remain crystal clear, or you would still see what you
believe to be algae or at least mustard algae.

When I was using just the liquid shock (12.5%), I would see dust clouds when I brushed, but the water would remain clear and the surfaces would look clean. Then, after several hours the algae spots
would begin to reappear.

My FC and CC level passed OCLT every night, but I still had signs of algae. Now that I have the chelated copper in the pool, the water gets very cloudy when I brush and the spots are much whiter
when they do appear. Also, I haven't had any reappear on my steps in 2 days. But....my floors still feel "slippery" when I brush....ugh.

3) Describe the condition of the pool floor, walls, etc. Is it near or far away from the 3 returns in the pool.

The algae could never be seen on the walls until they were brushed, then the dust clouds would be apparent. I haven't had the dust on the walls since yesterday....hopefully that's progress. I have
had the algae appear all over the floor (even in the vicinity of the returns).

I agree that 3 returns are insufficient. We inherited the pool with the house. I don't know why they only installed 3.

Of note....this stuff started off looking similar to beach sand.

My CYA was less than 20 when I tested and 3 pool stores got readings ranging from 2 to 5. I always used a CYA of 30 in the Pool Calculator....just in case. Then after starting the thread, I added CYA.
It was around 30 before all of this rain. I keep as 30 in the Math.

This is definitely an ordeal.

I'm sorry that your Hershey Park visit turned out the way that it did. That's frustrating. I hope you all got to enjoy other area attractions.
 
Another update:

My first round of chelated copper definitely showed signs of algae dying, whereas the straight chlorine method did not. I did make a mistake on the 1st treatment. I called the company before applying and there was a misunderstanding on my part about the FC level desired before the application. So....yesterday (the 5th day on treatment) I prepared the pool for another application and got the FC up to 36 (directions said FC of 40) with the granular cal-hypo.....and then the skies let loose (again). I was going to still put in the next dose of algaecide, but when I went out after the 1 hour wait period, I saw that the water was already to the top of my skimmers and over the overflow drain. Ugh......so I chose to start over the next day (today) because I didn't want it to mix with water going out the drain instead of remaining in the pool.

Of note....when I went out after the 1 hour wait period, my whole pool was so cloudy I couldn't see the floors. That's the 1st time that's happened without brushing this season. So maybe something was starting to die off then?

When I took a water sample to test FC and CC at 5:30 this morning, I noticed a slight chlorine smell (never had before) and there were strips of white sand along the crease in the deep end, some white dust in the skimmer, and small white patches in the shallow end. The skimmer usually has gray sand/dust after chlorine additions. So the appearance is now a little different.

Important: I removed my ladder in June. Then I soaked and scrubbed it in a strong bleach solution in a kiddie pool that I use for pool equipment. It is has not been put back in the pool. Also, any pool equipment that has been in contact with the pool should be kept in the shallow part of the pool during this whole process. I keep my brushes, pole, vacuum stuff, etc. there.


It seems that with this stuff, appearance of dead algae doesn't mean that it's dead, it just means there is live algae layers underneath....

I added my second dose tonight. Wish me luck!
 
Pharmcoder:

I am trying to follow the threads, but you will need to do a little more investigate work. Let's take a step back:

A) Is it possible that somehow the DE powder or your DE grids and filter is somehow getting back in the pool? I do not have DE, but use a sand with a DE filter and what a difference. Maybe this is what you are seeing?

B) Copper treatments, really do not do anything IMO that high chlorine levels will not do. My system was a FROG originally, in where you could keep your levels low (Guess What Algae spots and too hard to manage), and this did not last more than a few months.

Why not leave an area of the pool, large enough alone for a week. Allow to build up. Now you ready for this one. Take skimmer socks (The good kind) and double up on them in the one skimmer and vacuum manually. Vacuum only for a few minutes nice and slow not to disturb the floor. Then remove the skimmer and swap out with another skimmer basket. Let the water drain and the sock to dry naturally to actually see what is inside the sock. This will tell you if algae or something else. I really believe you are not fighting algae here.

This morning I will vacuum the floor only as yesterday I brushed the walls. The skimmer sock will catch everything and not enter the filter. I am wondering if again this is DE powder or just plain dirt/sand/debris just escaping back in the pool?

Regarding Hershey, what hurts is the over priced motel. I stayed 2 nights and one day and left. They have been there from Sunday evening to this morning is the checkout. Will go back again and stay off premise. For the price, I could feed my pool for over 10 years! LOL
 
I often wondered about that too....if this is DE powder or dirt is getting back into her pool. My worry is that she's been SLAMing for over a month...I think she's going into her 2nd month (with little progress in sight).

However, she checked her DE filter already from the earlier thread.

Something is going on...just can't figure out what it could be.

Catanzaro said:
Pharmcoder:

I am trying to follow the threads, but you will need to do a little more investigate work. Let's take a step back:

A) Is it possible that somehow the DE powder or your DE grids and filter is somehow getting back in the pool? I do not have DE, but use a sand with a DE filter and what a difference. Maybe this is what you are seeing?

B) Copper treatments, really do not do anything IMO that high chlorine levels will not do. My system was a FROG originally, in where you could keep your levels low (Guess What Algae spots and too hard to manage), and this did not last more than a few months.

Why not leave an area of the pool, large enough alone for a week. Allow to build up. Now you ready for this one. Take skimmer socks (The good kind) and double up on them in the one skimmer and vacuum manually. Vacuum only for a few minutes nice and slow not to disturb the floor. Then remove the skimmer and swap out with another skimmer basket. Let the water drain and the sock to dry naturally to actually see what is inside the sock. This will tell you if algae or something else. I really believe you are not fighting algae here.

This morning I will vacuum the floor only as yesterday I brushed the walls. The skimmer sock will catch everything and not enter the filter. I am wondering if again this is DE powder or just plain dirt/sand/debris just escaping back in the pool?

Regarding Hershey, what hurts is the over priced motel. I stayed 2 nights and one day and left. They have been there from Sunday evening to this morning is the checkout. Will go back again and stay off premise. For the price, I could feed my pool for over 10 years! LOL
Click to expand...
 
Griswald said:
Thats my guess also. Your CYA is way higher than you think.
Click to expand...

This is my thought too. Since algae started each time when FC was allowed to drift to a certain level. If CYA is higher than what you think then your FC level will need to be higher for both the slam and for maintenance levels. I had a terrible black algae problem that was solved with chlorine only. No algaecides. Perhaps the CYA test chemicals have been compromised in some way? Pool store results are notoriously inaccurate. Consider investing a few bucks in new CYA test chemicals. Or get the TF 100 kit. Good luck!
 
Good morning to all,

I appreciate the efforts on trying to figure this out. I wish this was DE in the pool. Unfortunately, it seems to respond to treatments, but won't completely go away.

I am soooo frustrated.

I administered the 2nd dose of chelated copper late last night. When I went out to take a sample this morning I was zapped by the sight of white patches ALL over the pool floors, and white line that goes done both sides of the slant to the deep end, and all around the creases in the deep end. Also, the water in the shallow end is somewhat hazy, but the deep end is so hazy that it is difficult to see through it. I can only assume that this last dose has revealed just how widespread this stuff is embedded in my liner. I wish I still had data space to attempt a pic of this new revelation. I don't know.....
 
I administered the 2nd dose of chelated copper late last night. When I went out to take a sample this morning I was zapped by the sight of white patches ALL over the pool floors
Click to expand...

This is the reason why we do not recommend anything than non-foaming, non-metallic Poly-Quat 60 algaecide, or any type of treatments, and this is even rare and usually only for closing a pool.

Question: Have you tried vacuuming everything up (not to waste), but where the gunk is caught in the filter. Yes, it may take an hour or so, but if the pressure were to rise, you can always backwash and add DE back to the filter. Just wondering if starting with a clean slate is worth it. Any updated pictures? Thanks!
 
Catanzaro,

I appreciate your feedback. I did follow the method from mid-May to July with no improvements, which is why I opened a thread on July 10th. It had become so time consuming and expensive that my husband wanted me to try another course of action. Hence the algaecide. It seems to be an improvement, but it is frustrating.
 
I’m a noob here so take this for whats its worth. When we were using cal-hypo shock(from a pool store) in our pool we were getting tons of white, sandy, powder type material everywhere in our pool. Its was all along the walls, floor, steps, filters and sometimes even floating on the surface. Since I found this forum and stopped using those “shocks” and only using bleach, the powder has went away.

I’m currently in the 8th day of my SLAM and hoping to see the light at the end of the tunnel soon. I've probably put over 75 jugs of bleach in so far. At that rate, it doenst take long for the costs to add up and my patience to start growing thin.

Best of luck!
 

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