New Build, Woodland Hills CA

[gravityvp]

Hi all - new to forum, looking for advice
The company I signed with has been around for 58 years, and the owner is an expert witness for the CSLB

The plan is for a 15x24 pool with 7x7 spa, 3.5 to 5'.

I have been wondering about the recommendation of UV/Ozone over Salt, with a Hayward Hydroite UV&Oxone-- they say they do not recommend salt due to erosion, that salt generates chlorine, and that UV/Ozone reduces use of chlorine.

They also recommend installation of two Jandy E pump variable speed 2.7 HP with the second as a booster. The price for the first is 1792 and the second is 2992. The reasoning with this is that if someone is not happy with the power of the jets the system will only be plumbed for one pump, not 2.


They do highly recommend Pebble finish - aquascapes mini-pebble, which is twice as much as a colored plaster.

Other recommendations have been auto fill/overflow and dedicated vacuum line with 3-way valve

Other details: Jandy 580 CL cartridge filter; Jandy JXI pool heater 400

I will also be looking at suggestions for pool surround - right now my thinking is artificial grass, with podocarpus around yard perimeter, for privacy. They also recommend vinyl fencing - I will be replacing a chain link fence.

thanks for considering this

 

[mknauss]

UV and Ozone, in the words of one of our esteemed Moderators, are all Magic and NO Rabbit. Do not get them.

A large number of our members have SWCG's. Especially in the southern areas of the country were you do not close your pool for winter. It reduces the impact of daily maintenance, but they are NOT no maintenance. Managing FC, pH, etc are still needed.

Other option is a liquid chlorine dosing system. Cheaper up front cost. You need to add liquid chlorine to it every week or so and you must do maintenance on the pump and tubes. Search for 'Stenner' in the search box on this page, upper right.

You will follow this [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA] for your chlorine levels if you manage using TFPC.

I assume the additional pump booster is for the spa. I do not have one but you might want it.

Plan to get a robot for cleaning.

Autofill is a good idea.

Finish is fully owner preference.

Others will chime in. Hold onto your wallet when Kim and Maddie get here!

 

[gravityvp]

Thank you so much, I am surprised they recommend it so strongly, considering the reputation/longevity of the firm. Yes the additional pump is for the spa.

I read about the heater/chiller on the forum here, and am considering that -- I live in a very very hot area. The pool will have a lot of shade, but there is sun exposure for about 3-four hours.

 

[mknauss]

I live in a bit warmer area than you and have no need for a chiller. Evaporation here keeps your pool water comfortable. It also quickly raises your calcium hardness in your water.

Do you have the ability for a water softener to supply your make-up water to the pool?

 

[gravityvp]

Thanks - my pool will only be five feet deep -- I don't know if that makes a difference -- on that regard at first I wanted a dark pool finish - and now am considering something lighter so the pool will be cooler

I don't know about ability for a water softener - since it hasn't been built yet I could ask about that. What would restrict me from that? And what would that help?

I also became concerned when I read a thread about how much water evaporates daily, even using the solar covers, and am wondering how high my water bill will go. I have seen the liquid solar covers and plan to search the forum for input on that...

I googled the robot that you have - saw it for 599 - sound about right?

[h=1]Maytronics 2016 Dolphin E10 Robotic Swimming Pool Cleaner- NEW for 2016 - Inground and Above-ground 99996133-US - then this one on Amazon for 463[/h]
I see you have automation - and have noticed several others on here have that
Is that something that saves money/provides efficiency, or is it purely for convenience?

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BTW you are so nice to reply to me and my many questions, I really appreciate it

 

[mknauss]

So I assume your home does not have a water softener? If not and you have minimal issues with calcium on your water fixtures in the home, then your water source is not the Colorado River.

I lose about 3/4" to 1" of water per day in June, July, and August. Less other times of the year. A solar cover will reduce that. The liquid ones do not work.

I do have an Active20 robot. Bought through Marina Pool in Denver. They only take telephone orders and by doing that you get the full Maytronics warranty. Online sales do not get the warranty.

I have automation so I can switch to SPA remotely and it is easier to set up schedules for my pump and SWCG. Others have ScreenLogic which lets them controls things from their phone, ipad, etc. I am looking at adding that.

 

[gravityvp]

Thanks again for your reply - right, we do not have a water softener, and have no noticeable calcium issues - I think most of the water is from the Owens Valley but supposedly some is from Colorado Aqueduct...

 

[kimkats]

Did I hear my name??????????? HI and Welcome!!

Do you have any pics of where this pool is going and the design for the pool? I would love to see them!

Seems to me your PB is doing a *fine* job of spending your money That is MY job! LOL Everything he is suggestioning adds to his bottom line. Make sure you get what YOU want. Have you been able to walk on either one of the finishes you talked about? I would see about doing that before you pull the trigger. With your pool only being 5ft deep (is the water depth? or floor to coping) there will be a lot of walking in that pool.

Kim

 

[gravityvp]

Thank you for your reply, I would love your help with any money-saving changes to the contract. I have grey plaster in the contract now, and upgrading to a blue or deep blue plaster is about $1400 more. You can see our yard is a shambles, will be nice to get it livable...

 

[Rocket J Squirrel]

I’m no pool expert but recently refinished my IG gunite/plaster pool.

Consider a rectangular pool so you can have an automatic motorized safety cover. If your project needs permits, such a cover is 1 of the 2 required child safety features for new construction in CA. It also keeps chlorine and water in, and extraneous crud out. IMHO, it is the single best feature of my pool from an ease-of-maintenance perspective. I lose maybe 1” of water per week in the summer, discounting splash-out. And I toss in a little Cl twice a week in summer & once a week in winter.

I feel sorry for people adding Cl and H2O daily. The auto-cover pays for itself.

 

[kimkats]

I will tell you the darker the plaster the more prone it is to mottling and streaking. It all depends on the skill of the installers. Gray plaster makes for some pretty water!!!

Whose hill is that on the far side of the yard. How does the rain water act when it comes down hard?

Kim

 

[gravityvp]

Thank you for your reply - my plan is rectangular and I was very tempted to get the motorized cover -- to reduce evaporation and keep the crud out, as you say. One builder spent quite a while telling me why it wasn't a good idea, for instance when it rains and then there is a bunch of rain on top of the pool... I forget the other reasons...

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Thanks for looking. The hill is my neighbors. I have never really noticed anything about the rainwater coming down and causing issues... Rain is kinda rare here -- but we have had some El Ninos and we never noticed anything about that hillside... would love to know more about what you might suggest we consider...

I do now want to say that I was consulting with a couple of local pool maintenance companies to get advice on sanitzation and some of the other issues in my contract, and one of them said the company I signed with used to have a reputation for not doing a very good job, and now the second person I talked to said that the owner is terrible and that he would never have anything to do with him... but that the guy I am working with is a sweet nice guy, who is following direction of the owner. The ownership of the company is transferring to the nice guy... But I am wondering if I should pull out- I have paid $3,300 --- and there is another $5100 payment when the permits are obtained. So if I get out it should be right now...
Any comments?

 

[dunginhawk]

if your gut tells you to bail, bail... im just starting my pool project but my advice would be the same for any situation in life. if it feels wrong, get out

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Somehow I missed this thread. I'd say if your climate is so hot you should go a bit deeper in the pool. Like 4' to 6'. Shallow pools can feel like bath water in summer.

A SWG is the most common pool sanitizer. To hard push anything else is probably because it has higher profit margin or extra stock sitting around. Who needs to buy UV when you've got tons of sun overhead?? Ozone won't protect you nor allow you to go chlorine free. In fact, it may cause higher chlorine loss at times.

The solution to rain water on an autocover (which I love, by the way!) is to use the small cover pump that comes with the covers. He must not sell covers if he's clueless about that.

Need any other strong opinions? Holla!

Maddie

 

[kimkats]

Hill-I can't see what is on the other side of the fence so it might not be a big deal BUT if there is not a place for the water to go when it rains then your pool could get flooded. If you have not noticed any problems in the past then you should be fine.

Listen to your gut. Check out Yelp, Google reviews, etc. Put a shout out on Nextdoor to ask for experiences with him. Is the transfer of ownership happening already? Will the mean guy still be there?

Kim

 

[gravityvp]

Thank you for your reply... I am not sure about status of transfer of ownership... I did check Yelp, Angie's List, CSLB and Better Business Bureau, all clean/positive. I thought the 58 years and being an expert witness meant I had chosen well. However I do not know specific details about why the person I spoke to yesterday was so negative and emotional about the owner of teh company
Yes, I will post on NextDoor -- I searched on there to see what builders people have used but wondered if it was legit...
I hate to lose $3300... ... I will cut the Ozone which saves $2400, and use that to go mini-pebble upgrade, and it was recommended I go with Pentair, so I could ask for Pentair instead of Jandy and hope that is not so much more. I am using shotcrete which is important where I live... I do realize now the schedule of payments is not good - other people I talked to didn't ask for a big sum until excavation, but I will have paid about $13k by then.

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Yes I was worried about that - I hope that doesn't make it much more expensive, but yes for sure I want a pool because I want to cool off. I will ask ... if I stick with this builder... I do plan to cut the ozone and just go with the regular chemical system. One of the pool maintenance people I talked to recommended ionization -- he said that can be added later if I wanted to...

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thanks, I will get an estimate on that -- the way the pool is now the spa is raised which gives a nice water feature, which would nix the cover -- the spa would need to be set in instead...

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I had a price of about $12 k for a cover for a pool 12x28... does that sound right to you?

Here is my contract:

If I stay with this builder, I will cut the Ozone system and go with mini-pebble, and ask how much more for Pentair equipment, and to go six feet deep. I forgot to factor in the height of my children (teenagers) who are over 6 feet tall so a 5 foot pool is not really great for them. I planned to not do decking and thus save the demolition of my flagstone patio - just refurbish that. I do have to do something with at least one side of my fence, the one on the hillside, although replacing the chain link entirely would be great - I got an estimate of $2800 to do that with redwood placed horizontally...

1. DESCRIPTION OF PROJECT: ACI will furnish all labor, equipment, materials, sales taxes, hoisting, transportation, supervisions, coordination, communication, and storage to complete in a good and workmanlike manner the following project: (According to and including the following approximate measurements
NEW POOL & SPA
Pool: Width 15; Max. Length 26’ Max., Area 390 S/F, Perimeter 82 L/F, 3 1/2’ to 5’, three returns
With adjustable flow heads, one skimmer, two main drains, one incandescent light in pool with
new safety cord to be switched at equipment $19,500
Shotcrete instead of gunite, stronger material highly recommended on hillside & high
expansive soil, due to higher strength value $ 2,647
DESCRIPTION SPA
Spa: 7’ by 7’ square. Elevation 18” above pool, located in the shallow end of pool. 8 Turbo
Jets. Face of spa to be tile. Outside rear that is not over pool to be stucco, spillway cascading
water into pool that is 18” wide. Tile, coping and grey plaster to match pool, install
standard white light fixture with new safety cord in spa, light is switched at the
equipment $ 7,795
Tractor access: 4’ wide $ 5,000
DEMO
Demo & remove 352 S/F of existing Flagstone decking $ 1,232
DEBRIS HAULING
Includes loading, hauling & L.A. City and/or county land fill fees, (Clean fill dirt). Ten 10
yard containers $ 6,750
PLASTER
Pool & Spa Finish:
Plaster includes (three) coats of plaster and “eye ball" directional flow heads and main
drain safety covers: FRENCH GREY $ 3,252MASONRY
Coping: Bellecrete Pre-cast, 14” wide around pool 82 L/F $ 4,992
Tile: 6” waterline tile in pool to include skimmer throat, spa spillway, spa dam wall. Tile
Selection (class 1, 2, 3) or an additional charge will apply. Total 140 L/F of 6" tile $ 3,080
GAS
1 ½” poly pipe from existing meter to equipment location to include emergency shut off
valves & unions at meter & equipment location, run to be 40 underground $ 1,270
ELECTRICAL
Electrical from existing service panel to equipment location, 43 L/F total, runs
underground $ 774
Wiring of motors, lights, heater & GFCI $ 1,100
DECKING
Pavers, approx. 650 S/F of Angelus Castle Cobble 1 (Three stone package). Pavers will be
set on a compacted sand base $ 9,100
EQUIPMENT/INSTALLATION
Poured in place equipment slab: This means that we pour a cement slab 3’ x 7’ for
equipment to be placed on, instead of purchasing pre-formed slabs that have a
tendency to settle at different rates, causing stress to be placed on the plumbing
Pre-formed slabs also allow grass and other weeds to grow in-between slabs. $ 650
Filter pump: Jandy E Pump Variable speed, with controller, 2.7 Total horse power $ 1,792
Booster pump: Jandy E Pump Variable speed, 2.7 Total horse power. Increases the
pressure & flow of water going to the jets. Allows the amount of pressure to vary due
to the fact the pump is a variable speed $ 2,992
Filter: Jandy 580 C.L. cartridge filter $ 1,315
Heater: Jandy JXI Pool heater 400 natural gas $ 2,723
Ozone Generator by Del Ozone (Eclipse 4) $ 1,773
Total, does not include permits or engineering $77,737

Please look over it and tell me what you think.

 

[kimkats]

Pool: Width 15; Max. Length 26’ Max., Area 390 S/F, Perimeter 82 L/F, 3 1/2’ to 5’, three returns
With adjustable flow heads, one skimmer, two main drains, one incandescent light in pool with
new safety cord to be switched at equipment $19,500

-three returns are not very many. Do you have the plans that show where the returns, skimmers, and lights will be?

Face of spa to be tile. what tile?

spillway cascading water into pool that is 18” wide. What will the spillway be made of?

DEBRIS HAULING
Includes loading, hauling & L.A. City and/or county land fill fees, (Clean fill dirt). Ten 10
yard containers $ 6,750 What happens if you need less or more containers?

PLASTER
Pool & Spa Finish:
Plaster includes (three) coats of plaster and “eye ball" directional flow heads and main
drain safety covers: FRENCH GREY $ 3,252MASONRY 3 coats? Most of the time this is done in one coat.

Tile: 6” waterline tile in pool to include skimmer throat, spa spillway, spa dam wall. Tile
Selection (class 1, 2, 3) or an additional charge will apply. Total 140 L/F of 6" tile $ 3,080 Here we go. That helps. Have you looked at them at all? Do you see any you like in 1,2,3?

GAS
1 ½” poly pipe from existing meter to equipment location to include emergency shut off
valves & unions at meter & equipment location, run to be 40 underground $ 1,270 What happens if your current meter is not big enough? Might want to check with your gas company.

ELECTRICAL
Electrical from existing service panel to equipment location, 43 L/F total, runs
underground $ 774 What about if it longer?

DECKING
Pavers, approx. 650 S/F of Angelus Castle Cobble 1 (Three stone package). Pavers will be
set on a compacted sand base $ 9,100

EQUIPMENT/INSTALLATION
Make sure to get model numbers and share them here and get them in writing from the PB.
Filter pump: Jandy E Pump Variable speed, with controller, 2.7 Total horse power $ 1,792
Booster pump: Jandy E Pump Variable speed, 2.7 Total horse power. Increases the
pressure & flow of water going to the jets. Allows the amount of pressure to vary due
to the fact the pump is a variable speed $ 2,992
Filter: Jandy 580 C.L. cartridge filter $ 1,315
Heater: Jandy JXI Pool heater 400 natural gas $ 2,723

Total, does not include permits or engineering $77,737 Who pulls and pays for the permits? Do you think an engineer will be needed?

Please look over it and tell me what you think.

My relies are in purple.

Kim

 

[jimim]

Two of the biggest things I learned here was using salt vs liquid chlorine. So much easier. So much easier. Also automation. Ya u don’t need it but man it makes life so easy! I can skim my pool from anywhere if I need to. I can change my salt settings anywhere if need be like when gone away. I can have valves open and close when needed vs going over to the pad. Ya not needed. It it all makes taking care of the pool so much more efficient.

good luck! This is the single best place on he net for help. It is just a positive place with people who care about every question posed. If it wasn’t for so many members here my pool would not have turned out so well and if wasn’t for my pool coach here when I did my startup it would not have been so smooth. And finally if it wasn’t for so many here after my start up who answered all my questions. Even the ones I asked again 6 months later my pool would not be as well maintained as it is now.

 

[gravityvp]

thanks so much! I will definitely ask for that -- so nice that the swg comes with the easy touch

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Thanks Kim for taking a look. The builder will pull and I will pay for permits. I won't know about engineering until the inspector comes - hoping not
I will ask for model umbers, but will also ask for Pentair equipment. I should have plans that show hte returns etc., and will ask for that. Good question about the containers - that could be a surprise - and wouldn't find out until container 10 is filled. Not sure how to deal with that in advance.

I don't see huge objection to the contract in general, which is reassuring. I put the project on hold yesterday, and am speaking to a couple other builders. Changing would mean losing the $3300 paid so far...

 

[kimkats]

How to deal with the "over 10 loads needed" would be to know up front how much it costs for each extra one. That way they can't "surprise" you with an over the top amount. Get it in writing.

Will be interesting to see what the others have to say when you talk to them today.

Kim