Brain Fried and Chemically Unbalanced

Lesa

0
Jun 15, 2018
9
Murrells Inlet, SC
Hi! First,thanks for this wonderful forum. I've been searching, reading andlearning a lot from other posts and the resources provided. This is myfirst post, so please forgive the detail. But I could really use some solid advice to get my pool balancedbefore I absolutely pull my hair out!

Brief background: On May 1, my pool was a green sesspool ofgrossness. I paid someone at the "evil pool store" to clean itup and get it balanced so that I could maintain it the rest of thesummer. After 2 weeks it was clean and blue....but far from balancedwhen they "finished" on May 15. It wasn't until May31, that I realized they were done (nobody called me)...so nothing happened onmy end for 2 weeks. At that point, the pool was blue, but cloudywith brown stains on the walls (which is why I thought they were still workingon it). On June 4 I had a pool store water test done...whichrevealed copper (.3) and iron (.1) and zero chlorine with a PH over8.6. So I've been on a steady cycle of Citric Acid to remove stains, MetalKlear to sequester metals, and when chlorine was introduced brown stainsreappeared. I've had to do this process at least 3 times during the past2 weeks. Finally, the pool store manager suggested I use The Pink Stuff whichwas applied on June 13. The good news....no brown stains afterintroducing stick chlorine. BUT....in spite of the chlorinator running24/7 on level 3 for the past week with chlorine sticks (trichlor fromthe pool store), the pool is still cloudy!! I haven't shocked it yet,fearing the pool will turn brown again, and the pool store hasn't recommendedit either. In addition at the pool store's recommendation, we've dumpedcalcium and muriatic acid and baking soda...and endless cycle....pertheir test reports. I bought their "highlyreliable" test strips which have given the same results the past2 weeks.....all levels are LOW...which can't be true, and which wasn't evenconsistent with their own test. I'm so frustrated with theinconsistency in water test results and honestly don't what to believe or knowif what we've been doing was even necessary.

Bottom line as of today June 20....my pool is STILL CLOUDY, I don'ttrust the test results therefore unsure what to do next, and worst of all I haven'tset foot in it to enjoy yet this summer. I'm tired of poor advice and service from the pool store. So upon youradvice, I purchased the TF100 last week...got it in the mail today and thefirst test results are posted below:

FC = 1
CC = 1.5
TC = 2.5
PH = 6.8
Hardness = 900 (YIKES I hope I did this test correctly. It turnspurple for me initially, not red, but eventually turned blue after a lot ofdrops!!)
TA = 40
CYA = less than 20 (I filled the tubed to the top and can stillsee the black dot)

Quick question about the FC test: I had to do this test a few times andhope I did it right. The first test, I was up to about 20 drops whichwould be extremely high. The water would turn clear, but then in a fewseconds turn pink. I also wasn't swirling it. I found a videoonline of someone actually doing the test. He swirled while he droppedall one motion. So following his example, the water turned clear after 2drops and stayed clear while swirling which is the number I recordedabove. However once again, when I sat the test tube down for a second, itturned back to pink. should I have continued with the drops ofR-0871? This was real confusing....but I know it's important to get thistest right.

BTW, I also ordered the LaMotte Metal test strips which were recommended bysomeone on a post out here so I can keep a check on metals (a pool store teston my tap water indicated trace amounts of metals). I did a test yesterdayand there were no metals showing on the strip.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

 
You're describing CC bleedthrough. not sure who came up with that name. Very common in ammonia situations.

I think you developed ammonia. I think you have been slowly oxidizing it which doesn't leave much to clear up green murky cloudy water. Problem is if you shock to get rid of the ammonia, you risk stains coming back.

An ammonia kit can be found at Pet Stores in the fish tank section. About $10.

I would try that, and see what happens. In the meantime, you've brushed the ENTIRE pool (walls too, straight up and down)?
 
I know people here dont like it when I suggest draining the water and starting fresh but if it is feasible it may be the easiest approach. If you want to do that let’s discuss the risk of floating your pool and if you have adequare fill water. Even draining 2/3 of your water may get you restarted better.
 
I know people here dont like it when I suggest draining the water and starting fresh but if it is feasible it may be the easiest approach. If you want to do that let’s discuss the risk of floating your pool and if you have adequare fill water. Even draining 2/3 of your water may get you restarted better.

In this case I'm inclined to agree, your pool being only 4,000 I would consider draining about 1/2 the water.

When you do the CH test, try adding five drops of R-0012 before adding any R-0010 or R-0011L. Remember to count the initial five drops in the total. See if this helps. Go very slow when adding the R-0012, like swirl for 30 seconds between the drops. If you have a speedstir, wait 10-15 seconds between each drop.
 
I have a small pool and I exchange water when my CH hits 1000 ppm.

You can exchange some water without draining.

If you place a low volume sub pump in the deep end and pull water from there while adding water in the shallow end you can do a fairly efficient exchange. That is assuming the water you are filling with is the same temperature or warmer than your pool water. If your fill water is much cooler than your pool water, then switch it. Add the water to the deep end (hose on bottom) and pull water from the top step.

The location of the pump and fill hose may change if you have salt water, high calcium, etc.
In my pool, with saltwater and high calcium when I drain, I put the pump in the deep end and hose in shallow end. The water in the pool weighs more per unit volume than the fill water from the hose.

Be sure to balance the water out and water in so the pool level stays the same. Also be sure your pool pump is disabled during this process. Once started do not stop until you have exchanged the amount of water you wish.
 
Wow! Yall are awesome! Thank you for this advice, Im reading thru and will report back on what happens. I have to share an update which probably changes everything. Amazingly I awoke this morning to a clear pool for the first time this summer. I have no idea what happened. I did nothing to it myself except test it last night, but suspect that someone from the pool store,may have stopped by last night without my knowledge. I havent heard from them since last week and assumed they had moved on. (Service & follow up are terrible around here.) So I am trying to find out if they did come by and what they did if anything. Nobody calls you back around here... Please know that I am committed to following your advice going forward and highly respect your time.
 
Hi again! Mystery solved. The pool store folks did come by last night and added phosphate remover which they say is why it is clear today. I had already vacuumed the pool this morning since I could finally see the bottom! They told me to backwash the pool now, which then means I'll have to add water ....which I hope and pray doesn't start the cycle of metal staining again (earlier tap water test showed traces of metals). This will be the first time I've added water since The Pink Stuff treatment last week.

My apologies for the need to double check but I don't know what effect if any the phosphate remover has on your suggestions above. So before I do anything (including backwashing) ...I wanted to loop back with yall to make sure I follow any new advice with this new information:

1. Ammonia issue: I didn't make it to the pet store today for the ammonia test...but will go tomorrow if it is still necessary. Thank you for that information! I'm learning new things every day!! And btw, I had been brushing the pool, though probably not as thoroughly as I will be doing in the future. :)

2. I re-did the CH test using frustratedpoolmom's suggestion. I even used a 30 second timer to be as precise as I could. NEW RESULTS: CH = 575 To shed some light on CH levels, on June 11 the pool store test results indicated CH at 147ppm. They had me add 14 oz of hardness increaser on June 11. On June 12, I went back to retest (primarily for metals), but the CH was 159ppm, so they had me add 12 oz more of hardness increaser on June 12. On June 13, did another test, CH at 170..they advised adding 1lb hardness increaser. The next CH test I did was the TF100 posted above at 900. I do think today's result at 575 is more accurate than 900. In retrospect, sounds like a LOT of hardness increaser to me....but just following instructions....bad as they were!

3. Draining the pool: Before I reached out to you guys, I was seriously at that point of scrapping it starting over. Actually I was contemplating filling it with dirt and planting a nice flower garden...but that's a different thing. However, now with the pool clear and a little bit better CH reading (tho still a little high for ranges), do you think it's still best to drain? Or if I backwash post phosphate treatment, do you think that will be enough?

Thank you all again! I just realized none of you are from the South, so I'm sure ya'll love my Ya'lls!! :)
 
I'm sorry to post so quickly after my last post....but I was researching the effects of phosphate removers on pool chemistry, just trying to understand all things. I found several threads on here about the topic, but also found info here https://www.swimuniversity.com/pool-phosphates/ which stated that phosphate removers can negate the effects of METAL SEQUESTERS!! I couldn't find anything on our forum to support or squash the info. So fearing the dreaded brown staining might return on my now clear pool, I grabbed my LaMotte test strips to check. Looks like iron is at 0, but honestly it looks like Copper is now somewhere between .6 and 1 which is up from the last test I did 2 days ago.

Should I be concerned? Is my pool so grossly out of wack or am I worrying too much?

#TrulyBrainFried
 
You are getting whipsawed with all the different chemicals that have been dumped into the water and their possible interactions. You will never really know what type of soup you have.

If you do a refilll or exchange of water and start fresh we can all help you much better. It's your choice.

With fresh water you only add CYA and liquid chlorine. Use muratic acid to lower your PH and TA, or aerate your pool to raise the PH. You can ignore phosphates if you maintain a proper FC level. Maybe add a bit of CH after everything else is in balance. If you have metals in your pool water then you deal with that. That's about it.
 

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HI again! I hope it'sOK to continuing posting on this thread. I have an update on my situation and a question. I took your advice and drained the pool abouthalf way on 6/22. Using my TF100 test kit, I took my initial readings and havebeen working since then to get all the results in line with yourrecommendations. As of this morning,these are my results:

FC = .5
CC = 1.5
TC = 2
CH = 450
TA = 90
PH = 7.2
CYA = 40

The low FC and high CC have been an ongoing problem forme. So I decided to begin the SLAMprocess this morning. Using Poolmath Idetermined I needed an FC Goal of 16. Soat 9am this morning, I poured in 120 oz of plain Walmart Bleach. At 10:30am, FC = 15, CC = 1.5; so I added 8.3 oz more bleach. At 12:30pm, FC = 15, CC = 1.5; so I added 12 oz more of Bleach. At 2:30pm, FC = 10; CC = 1 (I suspect thedecrease in FC was in part due to the sun coming out..it was cloudy thismorning...?), but I continued the SLAM process by adding 32 oz more of Bleach. I began to notice some light brown staining,so I brushed the pool. It didn't seem tomove, but I really couldn't tell. At5:50pm FC = 10.5, CC = 1 and now there is definite brown staining. I brushed the pool again, and added 32 ozmore of bleach because I'm no where near the FC SLAM goal of 16 and CC is stillat 1.

I use the LaMotte Copper & Iron test strips and lookslike 0 for each. However, I did the VitC test, and sure enough the stains do lift. So maybe I do have metals.

So my question is....should I continue with the SLAM processand continue pouring in the bleach, testing FC & CC as I go? Oris it best to stop and take care of the staining & probable metal issue?

Thanks....Lesa
 
Good morning! After 7 days of fierce testing and bleaching i finally finished my first SLAM! Yaay! My pool was brown stained due to copper (.7 per pool store test). Yesterday i cleared the stains....first i in error used jack's magic the iron cobalt etching stuff. Which cleared some but not all. So i used citric acid....and I am pretty sure i overdid it between the 2 products...my stupid novice mistake. However today i awoke to a cloudy milky looking pool. Yesterday it was pristine!!! I didnt have the right metal squester on hand and pool store was closed yesterday, so metals are still there I'm sure.

Here are my tf100 results this morning:

FC 0
CC .5
TC .5
PH 7.2
CH 400 (slightly up from yesterday...don't know why??)
TA 130 (also up from yesterday...)
CYA 33

I know TA needs to come down, but worried about lowering PH. Also worried about creating more whipsaw effect adding acid on acid...

Once again this novice is not sure what to do first.

Yesterday i added 24 oz bleach which had no effect. Today i added 2 oz algaeclear 50. Brushed surfaces.

Thanks....Lesa
 
FC should never get to 0. Your #1 priority is to always keep your pool at or above your target FC level. Once your FC falls to 0 bad things can happen.

Your #2 priority should be your PH which is fine.

Ignore your CH and TA until you get your pool stable. They are both ok.

Once you get your FC under control and pool clear for a week or more then you can tackle lowering your TA. To lower your TA you aerate your pool to raise the PH up to 7.6, then add acid to lower PH to 7 and aerate again, and repeat cycle until your TA is 70 - 80.
 
Thank you ajw22. Keeping fc in range has been a constant challenge for me due to all details in this thread. I finally achieved goal yesterday after weeks of work. I knew the citric acid would wipe out fc and I'm now working to get it back. Is there a more recommended product to use for stain removal that won't wipe out fc so much?
 
Thank you ajw22. Keeping fc in range has been a constant challenge for me due to all details in this thread. I finally achieved goal yesterday after weeks of work. I knew the citric acid would wipe out fc and I'm now working to get it back. Is there a more recommended product to use for stain removal that won't wipe out fc so much?

Stains is not my thing. Happily i have never had to deal with them. Hopefully others will come by and share their experiences.
 
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