New build in Michigan - Look over my quote please!

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Luvlabs14

0
Apr 1, 2018
7
Southwest MI
Preparing to build new pool in MI, can you help educate me on what is good and what may need improvement in the quote we received.

18’ x 36’ x 7’deep Concrete Pool to include,

Building permit
Dirt left on site
3/8” re-bar tied 12” o.c. throughout the pool
8” poured floor
8” shotcrete walls with 12” bond beam
8’ x 10’ sun deck 6” deep
6”x6” frost proof tile at the waters edge
2”x2” accent tile on the leading edges of the seat, steps & sundeck
White plaster finish on inside surface of pool
Variable speed pump
RayPak propane heater & Pentair sand filter all plumbed at equipment pad
LED light
salt system
ladder
Loop-Loc winter cover
4’ x 4’ x 4’ x 6’ exposed aggregate decking
solar cover
cleaning equipment

To be done by others, All electrical, gas run to heater and connected, fencing

OPTIONAL,
Auto Safety Cover
Cartridge Filter
Colored Plaster

EXTRA,
if iron present in water used to fill pool, iron filters will need to be set upon filling pool or water can be trucked in.
if de-watering is necessary due to high water table cost would be $xxxx.xx
sealing the deck

Husband is ready to move forward but I’m hesitant. I want to make sure we’re making all the right decisions based upon how much this is costing.

I should add we’ve visited 3 pools (2 concert & 1 liner) that this guy has installed. I was not “wowed” ( but I’m super hard to impress ). But I should add they were fine.
 
Forget the “solar” cover and absolutely get the auto safety cover if the pool will be rectangular. It will retain heat, chemicals, and water, and be more convenient to use. Best pool add-on ever.

I’ve never had a sand filter; I have a Pentair cartridge filter, and I might guess the latter is easier to maintain.

White plaster is easier to to maintain than colored plaster. Colored plaster can change color on you, and you can’t use a chlorine tablet floater or it can bleach out when the floater sits in one place.
 
I am hoping there is more to the contract than you posted above..........let me point out what is missing:

-model numbers-you need this of every piece of equipment to make sure you are getting the correct one for your pool as far as size.
-filter
-pump
-salt system
-heater
-light


-tile-what level? They have "standard" then go up from there on cost

-plumbing-
-look into what kind of valves-NO ball valves as they will get brittle over time and break. Pentair and Jandy make good "forever" valves that can be rebuilt
-unions-should be on every piece of equipment so you have have it serviced or replaced
-home runs for the skimmer and main drain-meaning each of them should be plumped so they can be control with their own valves at the pad

How shallow is your shallow end?

What are you going to do with the dirt?????

This should keep you busy for a little bit.

Kim:kim:
 
I have an autocover (love it) and after 5 years am considering adding a heater, in MD, not MI. I'll feel much better about my heater decision (should I move forward) due to my autocover. I've rarely heard a pool owner say they don't mind using a regular solar cover. They are very effective and rather a pain. Usually the trouble outweight the benefit though, especially if you are paying for the heat.

Autocover though is a major investment ($10-15K) which requires maintenance and eventual cover fabric replacement (10 years?). If you also need safety or the mental comfort of being able to secure you pool at any time, then the autocover is VERY worthwhile.

An inexpensive way to get colored plaster is to add some Diamond Brite quart product to regular plaster. If you look through our build in my signature, you'll see the mix they used. BE ADVISED though, it will be mottled. But we love the effect. It makes it look a little less formal, which for us is was a positive. It is no harder to maintain than white, except that you have to have different expectations. You won't be using pucks so that is not a concern.
 
Curious as to the "was not wowed"..what was not to your liking on previous builds by the builder? I assume you have a plan to dispose of all that dirt? I am in Michigan as well...we happened to find a local dirt bike track that was more than willing to take the dirt. Our pool is roughly the same size. How many LED lights? Is the Salt Generator an Intellichlor by Pentair, also ask what size the generator is so we can make sure it's appropriate (always go one size bigger if budget allows). In my build we have exposed aggregate deck as well. We initially had it "small" but last minute made it much bigger (best decision ever)...can never have a big enough pool deck.

A few little things..
1. How is the pool situated according to sunlight (sun in AM, sun in PM..no sun). My builder suggested we move the pool out a little further from house to allow more sun to hit it. Never crossed my mind.
2. What size PVC piping are they using?
3. How are they powering the salt generator...a separate timer / automation? You do not want the salt generator to be on/powered all the time, should only be on when pump is on. Should not only rely on the salt generator flow switch to ensure it is off. I found this out through TFP after my build was done.
4. How are you going to vacuum. Manually or use a robot?
 
Are you really going to be fine with being "just fine" with the pool? This is a lot of money to spend on just fine. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I just want you to be thrilled with the outcome.

Building a pool is a very frustrating process. There are issues and delays and mess. We are nearing the end of our build. If I wasn't super excited about the planned outcome, I would have gone crazy by now.

Has the builder done a design for you that you can share? Have you talked to any other PBs? There are so many amazing pools out there, maybe you can find someone who can wow you.
 
I'm in Michigan and while I've never built a pool, I can't talk about much there, but I have an inground pool and I wouldn't have a pool in Michigan without a heater.
 
Rocket J Squirrel said:
Forget the “solar” cover and absolutely get the auto safety cover if the pool will be rectangular. It will retain heat, chemicals, and water, and be more convenient to use. Best pool add-on ever.

I’ve never had a sand filter; I have a Pentair cartridge filter, and I might guess the latter is easier to maintain.

White plaster is easier to to maintain than colored plaster. Colored plaster can change color on you, and you can’t use a chlorine tablet floater or it can bleach out when the floater sits in one place.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the reply! Auto Cover is going to be additional $14,000 so we're not sure it's in the budget! We visited a large rectangular pool this company built 2 years ago that had the Auto Cover. We were not very impressed, the cover was sagging in the middle when closed and had lots of water and debris on the top of the cover. Maybe just a bad example to use but it seemed like a lot of maintenance on the cover alone - it was dirty and I know I'd be unhappy with that cleaning it every week plus pumping off rainwater.

Thanks for the input on white plaster - our plan is to go with white. Colored is additional $4000 so again probably not in the budget. Of the two concrete pools we looked at by this company one was colored and one was white. The colored one was not impressive, color looked mottle and not uniform at all. Also, we could see boot prints in the bottom of the colored pool?? The white one was better, the owner said they has some rust spots after the end of the first season but pool builder came out and drained pool and fixed them last fall. Not sure if that is a red flag?
 
kimkats said:
I am hoping there is more to the contract than you posted above..........let me point out what is missing:

-model numbers-you need this of every piece of equipment to make sure you are getting the correct one for your pool as far as size.
-filter
-pump
-salt system
-heater
-light


-tile-what level? They have "standard" then go up from there on cost

-plumbing-
-look into what kind of valves-NO ball valves as they will get brittle over time and break. Pentair and Jandy make good "forever" valves that can be rebuilt
-unions-should be on every piece of equipment so you have have it serviced or replaced
-home runs for the skimmer and main drain-meaning each of them should be plumped so they can be control with their own valves at the pad

How shallow is your shallow end?

What are you going to do with the dirt?????

This should keep you busy for a little bit.

Kim:kim:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply! I will need to find out all this info - agree the bid is very generic - too generic. I'm thinking they did not list specific items because we don't have a design set in stone yet? Maybe that's why? We initially though about gunite/concrete, then after the shock of the price we discussed a liner pool (trying to see how much money we could potentially save) with this builder but have since decided a liner is not going to get us what we want ( and not worth the small amount saved - only approx $10,000) so back to gunite/ concrete.
 
Not sure on depths, we are in a high water table area. So we know we will not go deep enough for diving board. I'd like a bigger shallow area but hubby is all about having adequate deep end. We only have 1 kiddo - currently 6 years old. I'd be happy with 5' deep end and 3' shallow end - hubby says NO WAY!

To address the dirt from excavation. We have a slope to the yard where pool is being built, gradually sloping down to a pond. Our house is built up a bit as we are in a low area. We will need lots of fill to make the pool area level so I'm thinking even with keeping excavated dirt we will still need to buy more fill dirt to accomplish our flat pool area (we will install retaining wall to match existing).

Pool will be built on south side of house with all day sun. We just removed 2 mature oak trees to decrease potential tree litter and maximize sun exposure on pool.
 

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Luvlabs14 said:
Thanks for the reply! I will need to find out all this info - agree the bid is very generic - too generic. I'm thinking they did not list specific items because we don't have a design set in stone yet? Maybe that's why? We initially though about gunite/concrete, then after the shock of the price we discussed a liner pool (trying to see how much money we could potentially save) with this builder but have since decided a liner is not going to get us what we want ( and not worth the small amount saved - only approx $10,000) so back to gunite/ concrete.
Click to expand...

With proper care and disciplined maintenance of pool chemistry you can expect 20 years of useful life from plaster. We had 17+ years on our last plaster surface before we did a full sandblast/replaster (would have had even more years except the company we hired to close our pool accidentally drained it completely when they put the winter cover on).
 
Luvlabs14 said:
Thanks for the reply! Auto Cover is going to be additional $14,000 so we're not sure it's in the budget! We visited a large rectangular pool this company built 2 years ago that had the Auto Cover. We were not very impressed, the cover was sagging in the middle when closed and had lots of water and debris on the top of the cover. Maybe just a bad example to use but it seemed like a lot of maintenance on the cover alone - it was dirty and I know I'd be unhappy with that cleaning it every week plus pumping off rainwater.
Click to expand...

One last rah-rah for the auto pool cover, then I'll shut up.

If the cover you saw was sagging, the pool water level was too low. The cover rests on the water. It's just like a big waterbed, if you're old enough to remember those.

Yes, debris lands on the cover. IMHO, that's better than landing in the pool. "Debris" includes bugs, snakes, and small mammals in addition to leaves & twigs. In the fall, I have to sweep and/or blow leaves off the cover weekly, but the other 3 seasons, not so much. Depends on how many trees are around your pool.

I also have an automatic pump which sits on the cover during our California rainy season. It works fine. I would not get a manual pump; too much work. Here in the SF Bay Area, it rarely rains, so it's not a big deal. The alternative is to open the cover to the rain and deal with the dilution of your chemicals.

CA requires two barriers to pool entry to prevent children drowning. An auto cover qualifies as one, but a solar cover does not. No idea about Michigan.

Finally, yes, the vinyl covers don't last forever. You can patch holes, but they eventually wear out. My last one lasted 5 years and cost $2200 to replace. I still wouldn't be without it.
 
Thanks for all the thoughtful and helpful replies.

We are now pretty much back to square one with respect to type of pool and who will build. The quote I specified at the top of the thread is from someone we have decided is not a good fit for us. So, we are now entertaining all our options and talking with a few new pool builders.

Also thinking very seriously about switching to liner pool. Crazy but we are having a very hard time finding a quality PB who does concrete/gunite in our small area. Plus, most everyone we know has liner pools so it's definitely the more popular choice in our area (I'm assuming directly relating to cost).

I will surely be reading lots of other threads to keep learning more!
 
kimkats said:
At least you found out they were not a good fit before you gave them any money!

If you get a liner pool think about getting the plastic steps due to the dogs.

Kim:kim:
Click to expand...

Yes Kim! We figured out just in the nick of time before we committed. We will for sure get the plastic steps. And with a liner we will have to give up the sun deck as I understand it's not very compatible with dogs. However, I'd rather give up a couple things in order to have a quality build.
 
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