Making your skimmer work better...

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doncaruana

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Aug 25, 2011
589
Northville, Mi
Pool Size
15500
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
After wasting some money on a skim doctor and then a skim a round, the engineer in me woke up. The action you see is just a product of the water that's in the skimmer cavity. The weir opening doesn't change and neither does the pump suction. The illusion is that these things make the water move faster. But no matter what you do, the water can only go to the pump at a specific rate. Even though it might be spinning faster there, it will have to slow down as it reaches out I to the pool area. It's like putting your thumb on the end of a hose, only in reverse.

Now, first, if anyone disagrees with the above, please chime in. But I was thinking that what actually might be beneficial is to block off part of the skimmer opening. By doing that, you move the restriction out of the box, where it really doesn't make any difference, out to the edge of the pool, where it can be helpful.

If course this is all just my speculation... Any thoughts out there?
 
Donldson said:
I think you have just invented the weir door ;)
Click to expand...

The skimmer is vertical and is way back in the skimmer box just like the skimmer baskets I mentioned. My point is to move the narrowing, ie the place where the water must move faster, out into the pool area proper. My skimmer is like this: https://www.yourpoolhq.com/hayward-pool-skimmer-wide-mouth-for-vinyl-metal-wall-sp10851om.html

I don't know why you would want a wide mouth, but seems it hurts the skimming capability to me. So, my thought would be to narrow it so it would operate more like one of these: https://www.yourpoolhq.com/hayward-sp1084-vinyl-skimmer.html

Does anyone have these wide-mouth skimmers and can you share what I'm missing and why I would want one?
 
Skimmer effectiveness has more to do with water levels, prevailing winds, the shape of the pool and the position of the return jets. Ideally you want everything working in concert to direct the floating debris to the sides of the pool so that it is sucked into the skimmer instead of floating past.
 
Skimmer effectiveness is about wind direction more than anything else. When the wind is not moving easier to direct. Change your filtering times to correspond to that. People forget pumps can run at night very effectively.
As a matter of fact some state utilities have gone to time of use where the non peak time is after midnight and the rates are cheaper. Of course if you have thermal solar you have to move the water through the panels to heat. The effective skimmer radius from the throat is only about 12 inches or so. You can also run your pump under variable time cycles. Debri floating times vary. Surface tension can also play a part on float times. If you have a "Variable Speed Drive Pump" you can run longer and at different flow rates. Let that sink in to your engineer brain. Lots of options to consider. I think someone needs to teach a class on this. By the way I am not volunteering. Good Luck:cool:
 
This gets off of your original topic, but my pool does not skim great, not bad, but great. Anyway, after reading someone else's post in another thread, I came across this little gem. Works awesome for me. I have really struggled with fine pollen not getting drawn into the skimmer. I have placed an ultra fine mesh net into this new clamp, and my pool surface is now 500% better.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012BV48LC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
Lot of feedback here...so let me address a number of them...

1. I use a skim-it also - have for years. Works better than about anything
2. I don't want to make a career out of trying to plan my pump cycle times and speeds to wind currents. I'm not sure how you would even do that.
3. The problem is not the water level or the prevailing wind or any of that. Those are are all as good as I can get them. The problem is that when stuff floats by the skimmer, it does exactly that. There is no pull from the main part of the pool. Either things make it into the recess on their own or they float by.

So...I'll go back a ways - what size opening does everyone have on their skimmer and how does it work for them? Do you have the wide ones or the narrow ones?
 
doncaruana said:
.....
So...I'll go back a ways - what size opening does everyone have on their skimmer and how does it work for them? Do you have the wide ones or the narrow ones?
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I have the standard sized Hayward skimmer. There is a link in my signature that shows the initial install.

I find that with the Skim-It, I get 90% of debris before it sinks.

Also, I try to aim my return more downward than sideways. I do this to help stir up the bottom, and to slow the water’s rotational velocity.
 

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The water level is kept so that it's just high enough to get a good fall over the weir door. Too high no pull, too low no water. The valve is set to pull mostly from the skimmer. The returns are where they are - not like I can move them.

So I disagree that this is all it is about. If there wasn't more to it than that, I wouldn't have felt the need to ask the question.
ps0303 said:
It's all about water level, return set up and valve setup. All of these play into for a good skim from the service.
Click to expand...
 
So you can't adjust your returns? Up down etc?

Sorry you disagree but being in the profession and visiting pools every day, I see where folks don't set things up correctly.
 
My pool has a wide mouth skimmer. It works well whether I used the 1.5 hp single speed pump I used to have or the 1hp 2 speed pump I currently have. My problem was an overwhelming amount of debris from my neighbors crepe myrtles clogging my skimmer. I installed a poolskim on my return and it works beautifully.

You may not be able to change the angle of the flow on your returns, and your skimmer may be positioned where prevailing winds push debris away before it can be pulled in. It is frustrating but that doesn't mean these factors are not instrumental in quality of skimmer performance.
 
ps0303 said:
So you can't adjust your returns? Up down etc?

Sorry you disagree but being in the profession and visiting pools every day, I see where folks don't set things up correctly.
Click to expand...

I'm game here...so what am I supposed to do with this setup? I've had a straight jet blowing from the return opposite the skimmer and that was worse. I have a "right angle" jet there usually that pushes the water toward the corner from the jet while the straight jet shoots across the stairs. This makes a generally clockwise rotation of the water. So debris floats, in it's clockwise rotation, by the skimmer. The skimmer has very limited pull into the pool itself.

So...what should I do here to make the skimming better?

pool_skimmer.JPG
 
I have a 1960s era pool with a single skimmer that's quite wide (12-13" opening; makes it impossible to find a replacement basket and hard to find weir doors). Worse, there's just a single return on the other side of the same wall that's just a 1/2" pipe hole, so I can't even put an eyeball on it to direct to the surface. I find the weir door to be critical, both to get the water pulling over the top taking debris with it, and to keep the debris from floating back out when the pump is off.

One thing I discoered is that the main drain in my pool just feeds into the top of the skimmer can just below the basket -- that was threaded so I put a 1.5" PVC cap on it, basically disabling flow from the drain. It seems that causes more water to be pulled through the skimmer; I see less stuff bypassing now. Do have to be careful that the skimmer doesn't clog (or the weir door shift and stick closed) or the pump will run dry, but it does seem to help some.

I did experiment with narrowing the opening using bricks when all I could find were smaller weir doors, but didn't find that it made much difference -- the single wide weir seems to pull the same amount of debris over the top. But I'm definitely open to products and ideas for better skimming!
 
Zea quoted:

"My problem was an overwhelming amount of debris from my neighbors crepe myrtles clogging my skimmer"

One of the main plants/trees/scrubs that we were told not to plant was the Crepe Myrtle near our pool area. I am sorry you experience this bc we have 5 very tall mex palms from our nbor's that hangs over into our pool area :brickwall: If there was ever an opportunity to get rid of these, I would do so.

Have you told your nbor of their crepe myrtle and were they open to cutting it back for you? C-myrtles are really great hardy and pretty trees, but very messy
 
What kind of relationship do you have with your neighbor? Do you allow them to enjoy the pool? If it were me, I would offer to replace the tree altogether, with something just as nice, but pool-friendly. If the rolls were reversed, I'd have a hard time saying no to that. We live next to each other, some amount of cooperation is reasonable.

I haven't heard here anything about pump speed. I think that makes a big difference. It does in my pool. I increased skimmer efficiency by adding automation to my suction port, so that it draws 100% for cleaning, but then closes to 0% the rest of the time, to maximize water flow through the skimmer. Then it's a matter of dialing in my VS to optimize skimming.

I have solar, so I have plenty of flow and circulation, so that is pretty much fixed in my setup. But in the winter, if the surface starts getting jammed up, I can push a button and get a high-speed "skimmer mode" to really get the pool water rotating and skimmer sucking. If that was a regular need, I'd just schedule it with automation. Like 1500RPM for most of the day, then a few 2500RPM runs, as long as necessary, throughout the day, to "polish" the surface.

Many here strive to run their pumps at very low RPM, with the goal to be constant circulation, all day and night, at minimum energy use. If that's what you're doing, that could be counter productive. I believe there to be a threshold where your circulation is so low that its benefits are being too greatly compromised in the quest for energy savings. It might be better to run the pump for less time, but at higher RPM, with a few "booster" runs thrown in, to really satisfy your pool's needs.

Point was: in addition to fooling with return direction, you might want to experiment with run times and RPMs.

Semi-related: why anyone would own a pool and not have a PV solar system to offset it's primary expense is beyond me. I optimize solar, cleaning, filtering, sanitizing and skimming to satisfy my needs, and am free from having to satisfy my electric bill... PV solar should be a standard part of a pool build, IMO (though I realize there are many factors, across many locations and climates that make that statement a bit naive)...
 
doncaruana said:
I'm game here...so what am I supposed to do with this setup? I've had a straight jet blowing from the return opposite the skimmer and that was worse. I have a "right angle" jet there usually that pushes the water toward the corner from the jet while the straight jet shoots across the stairs. This makes a generally clockwise rotation of the water. So debris floats, in it's clockwise rotation, by the skimmer. The skimmer has very limited pull into the pool itself.

So...what should I do here to make the skimming better?

View attachment 78744
Click to expand...

Have you tired a counter clockwise rotation. If you get a return such as this one (https://www.amazon.com/Hayward-SP1419A-Fitting-Hydrosweep-Slotted/dp/B004VTGNS4) near the steps it might help get water to go into the skimmer. I would then take the deep end return and just aim it down towards the steps.

If you wanted to keep the clockwise rotation, I would aim not at the skimmer but rather aim at the corner next to the skimmer. I just feel like the clockwise direction will give you weird eddy current effects that will push debris out of the skimmer
 
Yev said:
Have you tired a counter clockwise rotation. If you get a return such as this one (https://www.amazon.com/Hayward-SP1419A-Fitting-Hydrosweep-Slotted/dp/B004VTGNS4) near the steps it might help get water to go into the skimmer. I would then take the deep end return and just aim it down towards the steps.

If you wanted to keep the clockwise rotation, I would aim not at the skimmer but rather aim at the corner next to the skimmer. I just feel like the clockwise direction will give you weird eddy current effects that will push debris out of the skimmer
Click to expand...

Haven't tried counter clockwise yet. My thought is that the north side of the pool (where there is only one return) would just end up as dead space as the wind would fight the return on that side.

I actually do have one of those types of jets on the return on the north side. I updated my drawing to show how I have the jets pointed currently. Through all this, the water moves just like I want it to. Debris ends up floating by the skimmer, so there is good surface movement. The problem is just that the skimmer doesn't do a good job of pulling in the debris as it floats by.

One other note - I don't have a deep end - this is what is known as a "sport dig", so the ends are shallow (42" or so) and the middle is deep.

skimmer_with_flow.JPG
 

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