16 July 2024 Finishing Up my OB Pool

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JamesW said:
How does it skim if the filter pump is pulling from the main drain?

Don't the skimmers flow into the trough?
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Water flows normally over and into the gutters which drain to the infinity basin (trough). All of the light things that float on the surface flow through the gutters to the basin. Today I noticed a bunch of the big ants we get after a lot of rain floating into the gutters and down their "final ride" to the basin. A lot were also going over the infinity edge. The basin is sort of like a skimmer basket. I will periodically take a net on the pole to it to get the leaves and floating debris out. So the filter pump doesn't normally skim. The infinity pump takes care of that. Any sand or heavier material goes back to the pool through the two large CMP drain fittings at the bottom of the basin. Filter pump sucks this in from the bottom of the pool and traps it. The filter pump returns water to the spa and two wall returns in the pool when we're in pool mode. I like your idea to have the ability to intake from the basin with the filter pump also and it's a very easy pipe modification. So I'll put that in next time I do plumbing with some manual full port valves on each. I put a tee in line on suction of both pumps with a vertical 2" pipe. At the top I have a hose bib for priming. Eventually I'll put some pressure sensors also that I can easily monitor with the RPi. I'm going through some trial and error to figure out how much filtering time I'll need. One thing I do know it it's filtering a LOT of sand and dirt out. Had the filter pump off past few days while I reconfigured the piping and the bottom of the pool was a mess. Got most of that vacuumed up today. Also noticed today filter pressure drop is increased about 7 psi from new. So something's getting trapped in there. Once we get sod around the pool again and have the screen enclosure up I expect we'll have a lot less dirt.

Chris
 
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JamesW said:
So, the Infinity pump has to be on when the filter pump is on or the basin/trough will just keep filling up and overflow?
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No, when the infinity pump is not on there is no flow over the wall or through the gutters. The filter pump just takes intake from bottom of the pool and returns it to the pool and spa.
 
Of course for a short period of time after shutting down the infinity pump, the gutters drain down and water level is just to the edge of the gutters. After a day or so there's a little evaporation so water level is about 1/4" or so from the top.
 
I may change this if I don't get enough flow for the spa jets with the filter pump. But this can get complicated due to the infinity pump not being in the heater loop now. I think if this happens I might be better off just going for the larger pump if I have to. May need to do a few consulting gigs to pay for unanticipated changes like this. Somehow I feel like Jim Rahbe is shaking his head.
 
setsailsoon said:
So the pump that will actually run 24/7 is the filter pump.
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If the filter pump is running anyway, I would want it to skim.

Just change to suction from the trough and it will skim during filtration.

You can run both pumps at the same time using the 4" suction from the trough if you want more skimming and more infinity action.

I would probably use the pool main drain as a return to reduce head loss on the Infinity Edge 5 HP pump.
 
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JamesW said:
If the spa jets are not strong enough, maybe change to a 3 HP Intelliflo and install a 5 psi check valve bypass on the heater.

You can also close off some jets to create more power from the jets you are going to sit in front of.
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For right now I like the last option... I also have an air blower and will be surprised if the combination isn't enough to keep us happy.
 
JamesW said:
If the filter pump is running anyway, I would want it to skim.

Just change to suction from the trough and it will skim during filtration.

You can run both pumps at the same time using the 4" suction from the trough if you want more skimming and more infinity action.

I would probably use the pool main drain as a return to reduce head loss on the Infinity Edge 5 HP pump.
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That actually solves another little issue I have at the moment. As I mentioned previously the spa actually has a small section about 2' on one side that's lower than the rest of the pool. So when I ran the filter pump only it discharges into mostly pool but has a small flow to the spa to be sure it gets chlorinated. The low section spills over to the gutter and flows down to the trough. Since it takes suction only from the pool it slowly empties the pool into the basin and over-flows into the yard. In a couple days pool level is down 5" and the basin is over-flowing. I'll be able to limit and stop this when I get the gutter dump pipes working with valves. But this gives me another option. Flexibility with this pool is a very good thing. But most of the time when I'm flowing normally (not massive flows over the wall needed) I'll probably take suction on the pool drain. It's pretty amazing how much sand and heavier dirt gets removed from there. I think dirt would likely build up in the deep end over time but then again I'll be able to run my robot within a month and see how it goes with that. Options are a good thing on a zero edge/infinity pool/spa combo!

Chris
 
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25 June 2024 Update: Finishing the plaster start up period and construction

We're finally getting very close. Got the last 10% of pavers in a week ago and now just need 3 days or so with no rain so we can get them sealed. We started the plaster startup 31 May so will finish the initial plaster curing next week. It's been a LOT of work to brush and maintain the chemicals but we've also finally gotten to start enjoying the pool and have been completing the systems. First thing I had to do was re-plumb to get the right pump doing the right things. We've now got a massive 5 hp Pentair vs pump running the zero edge gutters and infinity wall. Also, got the gutter drains in. Next we'll get the pipe run down into the basin and valved so we can optimize. We're finding that we need to run in zero edge mode a couple hours each day to skim but don't need a lot of rpm to do this. And it's pretty cool to look at infinity mode which closes off the gutters so pool level rises with water almost to inches from the pavers. When they're under water they really sparkle and look great. When we removed the filter from the big pump circuit the bottom of the pool started accumulating dirt quickly so I had to get the vacuum line hooked up and start vacuuming. Looks way better now. I almost left this line out so now glad I had it at least for startup. I'll soon get the robot on order. Had to wait for plaster to cure to run it. My smaller 1.5 hp pump seems to have plenty of flow for vacuuming. I end up running with the vacuum line just cracked open a little to get more than enough to give extremely strong suction at the wall fitting. I keep the main pool drain valve wide open or the pump suction cavitates. The big disappointment on sub-contractors is the plumber never showed up. This pool plumbing is a lot different than most and I think it scared them off. So I'm doing the pad piping and valves myself. Remaining items on the pool I'll focus on this week:
  • Complete spa mode piping at the equipment pad
  • Complete the sun deck bubblers piping at the pad
  • Hook up the LED's
  • Reprogram my RPi - having some startup issues with this but a LOT of great support from experts here
We're finally also next up on the enclosure contractors list. They will do final measurements today and hopefully we'll see them install within the next month. Fabrication takes more time than install which will only be a couple days. We'll need to put tarp over pool when they're working overhead. Also we're now starting some of the hand grading work and long awaited sprinkler repairs. Then about 1/2 day with the skid steer in the back and we'll be set for the final two inspections.

One last decision I need to make is on the shape of the arch for the enclosure. The house has 12' walls throughout so the structural gutter starts at that level and the main beams arch up 2' to max height of 14' to ~8' away from the house then are level for the next 8' and then drop to 10' at the back of the pool. There's another 2' section that juts out from the back of the pool over the infinity basin (or trough as many call it). This frames in the picture window in back of the pool with no vertical or horizontal cross beams. So the top frame is what they call non-balanced mansard where the frame is higher at the house side (looking at it from end view) than it is in the very back. This was supposed to create a large 10' high "picture frame" view from the patio. Question for @kimkats and other experts here: should I add two feet in the back to make the screen balanced from the side view or does this 2' drop-down make it more of a "picture window" that's different from the other views around the pool? This would mean the minimum height all round would be 12'. Structurally it's good either way according to the engineer. The engineer in me tends to want a balanced mansard. But I also know engineers are renowned for building ugly structures without the help of a good architect or designer.

Chris
 
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OK, I realized my explanation of the picture window view might be hard to imagine. So here's my rendering of the view from the patio. It's close to scale and not perfect but does the subtle difference make one view better to the artistic people here (like @kimkats )? Which do you prefer the view left or view right? My engineer side has a preference but I learned a long time ago engineers don't build pretty without a lot of help from more artistic people.

Thanks in advance for taking the time.

Chris

1719319674757.png
 
setsailsoon said:
OK, I realized my explanation of the picture window view might be hard to imagine. So here's my rendering of the view from the patio. It's close to scale and not perfect but does the subtle difference make one view better to the artistic people here (like @kimkats )? Which do you prefer the view left or view right?

Thanks in advance for taking the time.

Chris

View attachment 589152
Click to expand...

Left...

1719319674757-png.589152
 
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