Water softener connected to auto fill, and new plaster start up.

[Dirk]

Matt, thanks so much for a really excellent explanation. The balancing bowling ball struck a cord. As others here will attest, yes, I overthink everything. It's my learning process, and hardwired. I hope I'm not making you all too crazy because of it! In my defense, I've "under-thought" a lot of things pool, one item in particular to the tune of $9000! If I had been more thorough before making some of my other recent decisions about pool care, I might have avoided several bad situations. So I'm trying to be prudent and careful and avoid such hard lessons in the future, mostly by bludgeoning you poor TFP souls, I'm afraid. It's only enough reminders that I'm overthinking that allows me to concede I've thought enough! Thanks again for your attention and patience.

Interesting about the NPC. Hard to know who to trust. To your point, when I asked her about CSI vs LSI, it was the wife and business partner of one of the NPC big whigs that answered she had just gotten back from some big pool/plaster trade show where a group of "plaster experts" were debating all things plaster, and LSI was a big topic. She'd never heard of CSI and no mention of it was uttered during her conversations at the event. She thought I was nuts. I was pretty stunned by that, but it's further evidence that this industry has a ways to go before all its "professionals" and contributors have their facts/stories straight.

I know the experts here at TFP have complete confidence in what you've all come to know about these topics, but I hope you all can appreciate how disconcerting this all is for someone like me who is trying to piece all of this together from scratch, in a relatively short amount of time, while trying to decide who should be trusted and who should be ignored. All camps involved are equally vocal that they know best, whether they do or not. Just ask the guy who ruined my pool!! I trusted him for a time, too.

I'm currently putting my trust in TFP. I feel it's well deserved and it is working. But my personality type doesn't always allow me to do so blindly...

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Your questions are fine and no one is being made crazy. Everyone needs time to process new information and unfortunately there's lots of conflicting information out there. But there does come a time when you need to just go with it and not let the technical information drive you in circles....it's pool for cripes sake, we're not cooking up rocket-fuel.

Here's some more information for you to ruminate on -

Langelier and Calcite Saturation Indices (LSI and CSI)

(The technical papers that chem geek refers to are ---> HERE <---)

 

[Dirk]

I see a lot of posts here suggesting the SWG be 2 to 3 times the pool size, or references of 30K or 40K. Is my IntelliChlor IC40 a "40K" in this context, or 3.33 x my pool size? In other words, adequate?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I have an IC40 on my 16k gallon pool. You should be fine with your setup.

 

[Dirk]

Thanks J. Would you happen to know? Does the 40 in IC40 mean up to a 40K gallon pool? I couldn't seem to find that on Pentair's site...

 

[JoyfulNoise]

That’s the basic gist of it - IC20 is up to 20k gallons, IC40 is up to 40k gallons, IC60 is up to 60k gallons.

The difference between then is the pounds of chlorine gas per day that is produced. An IC40 produces 1.4lbs of chlorine gas per day.

 

[Dirk]

Thanks Matt! Any chance you remember in what thread you and I discussed that chlorine output number, and how that can prolong the life of a SWG and the cost difference between two different-sized SWG models, etc and came up with the idea that the actual savings of upgrading to a high-rated model was kind of a wash? Better in terms of pump run time, yes, but not really saving money due to the higher cost of the bigger model?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Thanks Matt! Any chance you remember in what thread you and I discussed that chlorine output number, and how that can prolong the life of a SWG and the cost difference between two different-sized SWG models, etc and came up with the idea that the actual savings of upgrading to a high-rated model was kind of a wash? Better in terms of pump run time, yes, but not really saving money due to the higher cost of the bigger model?

An SWG’s biggest benefit is convenience. The total amount of money spent on an SWG is roughly equivalent to the same cost as buying chlorinating liquid over the same time frame. Most pools, hydraulically speaking, only need 2-4 hours of pump filtration time to keep a swimming pool clean. Thus, reducing pump speed/run time allows the owner to get closer to the pumping schedule used by manual chlorination methods.

The biggest detriment to SWGs is a pool owners lack of understanding of scaling and saturation balance. When one follows TFP recommended levels and CSI values, scaling is almost never an issue and SWGs last well into their rated lifetimes (aside from nuisance repair issues like a faulty flow switch or bad temp sensor). Improper chemical maintenance accounts for 90% of a pool owners grief.

 

[Dirk]

Thanks Matt. I was looking for the thread in which you and I figured out that the extra cost of a bigger unit didn't really extend the value all that much based on it's chlorine output. Maybe that was someone else. No matter.

Do you use this gizmo? Anyone? Should I get one of these?

Amazon.com: Pentair 520670 IntelliChlor Acid Washing Kit: Garden Outdoor

Even though the pool guy never really got my SWG working last year, it was on enough to throw a bunch of flakes into the pool. I thought I should at least check the plates and be prepared for a wash when I do...

 

[Dirk]

Hmm, just checked my ScreenLogic history and my pool hasn't dipped below 55° in the last week or so. Maybe time to fire up the SWG! Yay! Need salt. Will either of these work?

Shop Morton 40-lb Salt Pellets at Lowes.com (99.7% pure salt, but pellets?)



or are "crystals" better (what the heck are solar crystals?):

Shop Morton 40-lb Salt Solar Crystals at Lowes.com (no percent on the website but states "All natural: high-purity salt with no additives")



these crystals are a buck cheaper. Good reviews. The sister product has some sort of resin cleaner, I'm sure I don't want that, but this one seems to be just salt:

Shop SureSoft 40-lb Salt Solar Crystals at Lowes.com



Anybody use any of these Lowe's products for SWG pool?

 

[cfherrman]

Just the straight up salt crystals. Crystals is just fancy talk for rock salt.

With tfpc you shouldn't need to acid wash, so I would wait on the kit

 

[Dirk]

Just the straight up salt crystals. Crystals is just fancy talk for rock salt.

With tfpc you shouldn't need to acid wash, so I would wait on the kit

But I wasn't TFPCing back then, only since October and it's been too cold to use the SWG. When it was on, and managed by the pool guy, it never maintained FC, and it threw a lot of flakes, presumably from its built-in "de-flaking" cycle. I'm sure my water was out of balance at that point. So I figured I should take a look at it before I turn it on, to make sure the plates are clear. And if I take it apart I'd want to be ready to clean it, to avoid having to take it apart twice.

Is there a way to clean the plates without the kit? That way if I have to just this once, then I'll use that MO.

I like the sound of your advice, but it doesn't seem to match others' here, who regularly clean their SWGs. Are you saying that if I guard the CH and TA correctly (and CSI), that I can expect to never have to wash the plates? That'd be awesome!


OK, crystals it is. I'll make sure they're only salt. Maybe I'll throw some out on the ground to see if they form into any etherial shapes, or give me magical powers! :joker:

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I have not needed to acid wash my SWG in over 4 years and my CH is currently near 1500ppm (that’s not a typo). I can still manage a negative CSI, albeit with a more frequent acid use than I prefer.

You want plain old water softener salt. No additives.

 

[kimkats]

Dirk make sure your Grands are there for "diamond day" aka when you put the salt in the pool. It is SO pretty under water and the kids love it. They also help dissolve and mix it in.

Kim

 

[Dirk]

Dirk make sure your Grands are there for "diamond day" aka when you put the salt in the pool. It is SO pretty under water and the kids love it. They also help dissolve and mix it in.

I loved that idea when I heard it before. But remember, these are the progeny of my daughter, who won't get in under 90°!! My pool is at 59° today! And I want to get the salt in soon. I don't think there's enough Ring Pops (their favorite) in town to bride them in! Come on over for a swim! Maybe you can talk them in!! = you after 2 minutes!!