Questions about ammonia

Jun 7, 2016
78
Noblesville, IN
Pool Size
32000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
CircuPool RJ-60
I let the pool go for about a month (vacation, laziness, etc.) and now appear to have an ammonia and algae problem.

I initially put in 12 gallons of 8.25% bleach to start SLAM (unaware of ammonia - expecting CYA to be around 60), let it circulate overnight, tested FC in the morning at 0.5. I put in another 12 gallons and did a full water test (I know I should have done this from the start).

pH: 7.5
FC: 0.5
CC: 8.5
TA: 270
CH: 475
CYA: 0
Bor: 20

I do research to figure out how the CYA could have evaporated and learn about ammonia. First resource I found indicated that to get rid of ammonia put chlorine in at a ratio of 10 ppm for every ppm of ammonia + 1 ppm chlorine for every ppm of CC.

So I go buy ammonia test strips, test the ammonia at 4.5 ppm, and put in 26 gallons of bleach at about midnight, test at 7 the next morning, FC shows 1 and CC now reads at 24.

I do some more research and find a thread (https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/111138-Dealing-with-Ammonia) that says after starting SLAM, test FC at 10-minute intervals.

Questions:
- Because I didn’t hold the shock level, has the chlorine I’ve added thus far gone to waste, or would it have helped somewhat?
- Sounds like I only need to get shock level to 10 ppm, which is about 5 gallons to start, correct?
- I have some algaecide as well, would it help to put any in, or just shock first?
- If the ammonia is going to consume the bleach fast enough that I need to test at 10-minute intervals, how much bleach is it going to take (considering I’ve already put in 50 gallons so far)?
- Are there other options? Flush out some of the water? Drain it all the way?
- Temps are under 60 now, so algae shouldn’t continue to grow further; will it cause problems if I leave it as-is until spring?

The pool needs some repairs as well (new coping, acid wash, painting, etc.); I’ve thought about draining it now in preparation for those repairs, but am concerned about the pool floating/rising without water in it; is that a possibility? I tried to do some research and it sounded like it can happen more from high water saturation in the ground, not necessarily as a result of ground freezing, but not sure. It’ll need to be emptied for repairs eventually, so how do you mitigate that risk? Is it how long it’s empty (a month is okay, 6 months is a risk)? I’m also concerned about the cover and being weighed down by snow (i.e., ripping out the tracks) without the water to help support it from underneath, but also don’t want to leave a big open hold all winter (and have it fill up with water and leaves).
 
Test the ammonia level now that you have added a ton of bleach. Also test the FC and CC again. If you still get a high CC reading then you will need to complete the SLAM Process process to get rid of it. If you still show ammonia in the pool, do the ammonia protocol, which is dose to reach 10ppm FC, wait 10 minutes, test FC again. If FC is 5 or less raise it back to 10 ppm. Once the FC is 6 or more after 10 minutes you can increase the test intervals gradually by 30 minutes as the FC begins to last longer periods of time.
If there is no ammonia test and dose the pool to reach 10 ppm of FC every 2 hours, or if you work, once before work, once after work, once at dinnertime, and once at bedtime.

If the pool needs draining for repairs then you don't drain it until a day or two before repairs are scheduled to start. If you have a repair company work on the pool then they should be responsible for draining the pool and monitoring it periodically while it drains. If there is any damage to the pool as a result of improper draining it should be covered by the repair company.

Draining a pool and leaving it empty for long periods of time can damage the plaster, along with the other concerns you mentioned.
 
Okay, so as of this morning it had been 2.5 days since I added the 26 gallons of bleach and 48 hours since I’d tested it at 1 FC, 24 CC, and 4.5 ppm of ammonia. I buy 20 more gallons of bleach and test again before doing anything; FC was up to 2.5 and CC down to 8 with ammonia at about 3.5. Should FC have gone up and CC down in that 2 days with no changes? In the test two days prior the water would have had about 7 hours to circulate before testing, so should have been mixed well. The water was also slightly clearer this morning, so it seems like even though FC tested very low, it was still making some positive impact during that time.

I also noticed today during my initial tests that after adding the powder it would get gradually darker for up to 2 minutes, like it was taking a long time for it to bind to the chlorine; is that normal with ammonia present, and if so, should you wait to do the drops until after the color has stabilized? I wonder if my test 2 days ago wasn’t correct, if I just added the drops too quickly after the powder. I know after the initial drops it can turn back red, but haven’t seen anything that’s indicated that can happen after the powder, before any drops.

--- Today’s detailed testing, just for reference or for anybody that cares ---

Anyhow, I added 5 gallons initially and immediately tested the water at an FC of 4. Not sure where to start the 10-minute timer since it takes me about 5 minutes to put in the 5 gallons; I also am curios how accurate the tests are that quick, I had the understanding that it took 8 hours to fully circulate the water and any testing before that wasn’t 100% reliable…

I add 4 more gallons and test again immediately and get FC of 1 and CC of 10.5.

Thinking I’m moving to quickly I wait 7 minutes, add 5 more gallons, and test FC at 4 and CC at 8.

Wait 10 minutes then test FC still at 4 and CC at 1.

Add 3 gallons, wait 15 minutes, and test FC at 10.5 and CC at 1.

Wait 15 minutes and test FC still at 10.5 and CC still at 1, so I test the ammonia again and it shows up as 0.25 (tested the RO drinking water when I bought the tests as a check and it tested about the same, so guessing that’s just an error rate in the strips). So ammonia appears to be gone at this point.

Wait 20 minutes, FC is still 10.5 and CC is 1.

Wait 25 minutes, FC is 10 and CC is 1. Add 1 more gallon of bleach to make sure FC doesn’t drop below shock level since there’s no CYA and sun started to come out.

Waited 40 minutes, FC is 13 and CC 1.

Waited 65 minutes, FC is down to 11 and CC 0 but it started raining pretty hard, so might be diluting the FC.

Wait 65 minutes, FC is still 11, CC showing 1, still raining.

So ammonia appears to be gone and good for regular SLAM now. I plan to add the CYA shortly, and probably another gallon of bleach just to make sure FC stays up since the cover is still open and it’s still raining.

--- End of today’s actions ---

Question: With the ammonia, is it the total chlorine that gets it gone, or is it the slow application of chlorine over time? Basically, was the initial 50 gallons that I put in mostly wasted because it was applied to fast, or would I have needed 70 gallons on hand while testing at 10-minute intervals to eventually kill it off?
 
I had the understanding that it took 8 hours to fully circulate the water and any testing before that wasn’t 100% reliable…
Typical pools need about 30 minutes to properly disperse most chemical additions.

would I have needed 70 gallons on hand while testing at 10-minute intervals to eventually kill it off?
Yes. It might have been a bit less as you would not have had as much burn off of the chlorine from UV. But it would still have taken alot of chlorine.
 
The total amount of FC needed to neutralize ammonia is the same no matter if you add it all at once or slowly. The limiting factor is how much you can safely add without damaging equipment or liners. You are also losing some FC to sunlight and other oxidation process.

No matter what, you need roughly 10X the amount of ammonia in FC to neutralize it. So if you measure 8ppm ammonia (top limit of most aquarium tests) then you’ll need 80ppm FC to neutralize it.
 
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