New pool build Far North Dallas Suburb

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tenderfoot

tenderfoot

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Bronze Supporter
Aug 10, 2017
131
North/TX
Hi,

Long story, but the builder had to undo all the rebar/plumbing and slide the pool cavity a few feet so the pool can be located away from an eastment on the property.

Anyhow, now the back side of the pool (the long side on a 16x31 pool) has about 4 feet of air space between the rebar and the dirt. That space runs from being 3.5 feet deep on the left to 6.5 feet deep on the right. This space will obviously be backfilled after the gunite goes in...

So, the builder is proposing the following:
Build a temporary wall using 2x4's (columns) and plywood (walls), which will be in place all along the long side so that the gunite can be installed. After the gunite is cured, the temporary wall will be removed and then the dead space will be backfilled with soil, which will be compacted using water only.​

I am very worried now about having structural issues with the pool due to this. Since the builder was the one who made the mistake to begin-with, I will ask for an additional warranty to cover the pool structure. But, even with that, I'd like to try to minimize the likelihood of running into structural issues down the road.

So, has anyone had to backfill dead space next to the pool walls? How did you do it? Do you have any advice?

I am in North Dallas, so the ground around here is mostly clay and therefore, it expands and contracts like crazy as we get rain and droughts. Hmmm...... should I have them fill in the dead space with a sandy soil mixture rather than just normal area soil? or would that type of soil increase the likelihood of issues later?

Thanks!!!
 
Re: Arghhh... Will need to backfill... Need advice quickly, please!

Is there any decking that is planned to go over the backfilled area? If so, I would wait a season before installing any kind of hardscape over that area to see how the compaction goes.

You might want to call in a 3rd party civil engineering firm and pay for an evaluation of the proposed fix. They could better tell you the likelihood of success given your local conditions and may be able to propose other solutions. It could slow the build schedule down considerably but it would give you more information than the PBs say-so.

Good luck and keep us posted.
 
Re: Arghhh... Will need to backfill... Need advice quickly, please!

That's a great idea! I will definitely bring in a civil engineering firm to evaluate the situation! Thank you!!!

Only grass will go over that area. It is an easement, so I am not allowed to build anything on it.
 
Re: Arghhh... Will need to backfill... Need advice quickly, please!

tenderfoot said:
That's a great idea! I will definitely bring in a civil engineering firm to evaluate the situation! Thank you!!!

Only grass will go over that area. It is an easement, so I am not allowed to build anything on it.
Click to expand...

With backfill, the trick is getting the right mix of gravel and sand and then adding it (“lifts” is what they refer to it as) in batches with good compaction in between each lift. Water is a good way to settle everything but, even with watering, there will still be settling over time. It may be an area that just will need some attention in the first few years.

Definitely get that additional structural warranty in writing from the PB noting the exact reason why. It won’t mean anything if the PB goes out of business but at least it’s a record for you and any future homeowners.
 
Re: Arghhh... Will need to backfill... Need advice quickly, please!

Talk to your pool builder about using a process called 'soil cement'. Dry cement is added to the sand gravel mix and compacted in lifts. It will be rock hard. You will need to consider drainage in that area and leave enough top soil for your grass to survive.

Take care.
 
Re: Arghhh... Will need to backfill... Need advice quickly, please!

Industrial and commercial sites do that all the time, and backfill against the concrete walls with no issue.

Getting a civil person to look at it and give an opinion is a good idea, but not totally necessary if the PB will put in writing the process they're going to use to back fill it. However, if they're not willing to itemize all the steps, then bring in the civil person and have them draw up a plan and then have the PB sign a copy of it stating that they will adhere to the plan.

You'll want to look for fill composition, dampness, lift heights, percent of proctor density to be achieved by compaction, and that it's compacted by mechanical means, and not just pouring some fill in the hole and wetting it. You want the fill to be back to the same or better state as the surrounding undisturbed soil.
 
Re: Arghhh... Will need to backfill... Need advice quickly, please!

If they are going to backfill with native, ie clayey soil, than water will make the material expand and not compact. Have them backfill with select fill (sandy material) or crushed stone (Txdot flexbase 247 typa A or D in your area) compacted in 12" lifts as suggested. If they are wanting to use a plate tamper for compaction don't allow a lift greater than 6", if they use a jumping jack than 12" is acceptable. Top it off with an 18" clay cap (+ 6" of toposil) to keep water from seeping down and you should be all good. Soil cement, soil stabilized sand or flowable fill would give an added piece of mind but not necessary.

I agree with having them outline the steps before they begin. An independent engineer is not necessary as long as you have the steps detailed and are there to observe them install the backfill. If you do want an outside engineer it will cost you about $200-$500 for testing and observation (pm me and I can give you a local contact if desired).
 
Re: Arghhh... Will need to backfill... Need advice quickly, please!

Wow... What a wonderful community to have accidentally stumbled upon! Thank you for all your quick and wonderful responses.

My cousin is a civil engineer (but she lives in Florida). It had not occurred to me to speak with her until JoyfulNoise's post! Duh.... :)

I spoke with my cousin this morning. In summary her response was a combination of several of the responses here!

I will post back with the process we end up following so others can benefit from this. I am sure I am not the last one to have to go through this, and hopefully this will help with other's future research.

@d_red1: Thank you for noting what is probably obvious to many, but certainly not me!!! It had not occurred to me that clay would expand when you try to compact it with water!!! I am glad you responded to this!
 
Re: Arghhh... Will need to backfill... Need advice quickly, please!

This is a great community and one you should leverage heavily during your build. Posting of pictures is extremely helpful and will "lure and feed" the TFP'er crowd. The huge bonus is learning how to easily and cheaply care for your pool to become a "pool snob" along with many of us that have found this group.

You might consider changing the Thread Title to New Build Allen Texas (you can do this in your first post). Then start asking questions and posting pictures and progress on your build.

We are all here to help!
 
Re: Arghhh... Will need to backfill... Need advice quickly, please!

Here are some before and "during" photos... It's advancing but oh my goodness: I have to be constantly micro-managing these guys! Can't wait for them to finish this.

https://imgur.com/a/Ldjmm

With regards to the trench, we basically used the material and process outlined above by dred_1. So far so good... They have been using the compactor and doing it in 6" lifts.
 

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Re: New pool build Far North Dallas Suburb (Photos linked)

I like it. Nice big sun shelf there.

I wouldn't worry too much about the structure after getting the items from the PB that you have already mentioned about the process.
 
Re: New pool build Far North Dallas Suburb (Photos linked)

Glad your PB is taking care of the problem he made Gurrrrrrrrr That should teach him to do his homework.

I am going to share a set of links I have for new pool owners. It is a lot of info but it will all start to sink in as you use it:

Print these out:
Pool School - Basic Pool Care Schedule

Pool School - Recommended Levels

Bookmark these:

Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

PoolMath

Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

Make sure to ask any and all questions you might have no matter how small! We have all been where you are at one point.

Now is also when I ask what test kit your PB will be providing. Let us know so we can fill in any blanks it might have.

Kim:kim:
 
Re: New pool build Far North Dallas Suburb (Photos linked)

Thank you for those guides!

Ok. Need help with the pool finish. I thought I knew which finish we were going to use, but after looking at some photos I am not sure anymore!

I am also uncomfortable with the pool surface being applied in these lower temperatures we are having in North Dallas because concrete does not seem to cure well in lower temperatures. Any guidance on that?

With respect to the color, I would like to have a blue color. Ideally I want to avoid all shades of green at all costs. I also do not want dark water either. I would also like to avoid too light of pebble finish because I've heard that it is easy to stain (rust, leaves, etc...). So, for now, I have chosen "StoneScapes Aqua Blue". Does anyone have a pool with that finish?

Thanks!
 
Re: New pool build Far North Dallas Suburb (Photos linked)

Ask your PB if he as any pools done in the colors you are thinking about. Go visit them so you can see them in real life. I have seen several builds with the Aqua Blue that look quite pretty but they are pictures so still hard to really tell the true color. Of course I cannot remember which builds used this color :roll:

I will get with some one that knows about when and how to apply plaster. Hold on a bit until get back to ya!

Kim:kim:
 
Re: New pool build Far North Dallas Suburb (Photos linked)

Ha! I feel like the kid that cried wolf. Our temperatures here in Dallas the past few days were quite chilly... the temperature with the wind chill was in the low 30s the past few days, but it looks like they will climb up for the next 7-10 days. Perfect! Lowest predicted is 50 deg F. So I think we'll be OK?
 
Re: New pool build Far North Dallas Suburb (Photos linked)

Tenderfoot,

Picking a color is HARD!

We always seemed to drift towards PebbleSheen Blue Granite but always had a nagging feeling about it. The night we had to email our selection, we waded through the pics of pools I had collected. We wanted a medium blue color and bipoiled it down to Blue Granite and Blue Surf. Just as I was about to hit send with Blue Granite, it hit us. Our coping is grey and the shallow areas tend towards grey with BG. It would wash out and we wanted a blue color throughout. Thus, we ended up with Blue Surf as even the shallow areas are blue. We couldn't be happier and still mention it when looking at the pool.

Look around, visit some pools, and pay attention to the shades of color and how water depth affects it. We are glad we did.
 

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