Critique my Closing Plan

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kchinger

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2017
295
Southeast PA
So this is the first time I've needed to close a pool (just bought the house late summer). TFP has been great so far and the pool is in great shape (other than an absurd amount of leaves). It's still hovering around 68 degrees even though it's mid October, somehow, so I've got a little time left to plan.

1. Vacuum/sweep, etc, get it nice and clean.
2. Add bleach/use SWG to shock level, let it drift down a little.
3. Add polyquat startup dose (I guess I'll get this online and figure out how much I need)
4. Get out my cover (mesh safety cover with the brass things, I need to make sure I can find them all, some are out).
5. Use main drain to drain 4 inches below the returns. These are about 12 inches below my tile, so I'll be about 16 inches below tile, is that fine?
6. Remove skimmer baskets.
7. Using my shop vac, close shallow skimmer and the main drain, blow into deep skimmer and out the return until basically dry. How do I atttach the shop vac to the skimmer tightly? Then shut off that skimmer, do the other skimmer. Shut off both skimmers. Then how do I blow out the main drain? Do I need to remove the SWG? If I remove it do I need to cap both ends, or put in a blank? Do I drain the filter at all? When I'm blowing out the returns and skimmers do I turn the multiport to recirculate instead of filter?
8. Remove drain plugs in filter and heater.
9. Is anti-freeze necessary? Personal decision? If so, where do I need to add it?
10. I need some expandable rubber plugs for the two returns, and maybe the SWG unions? What size are returns normally? Like 1/2" PVC? 3/4"? Can I just get these at the hardware store?
11. Put Gizzmos in the skimmers (already have a couple I think)
12. Put the cover on and tighten it or whatever. I'll figure this out I'm sure.
13. Put the automatic pump on the cover, just toss it into the middle?

I also have a pressure side cleaner thing that I've never used. I guess I need to blow out and drain this too?

Do I need to backwash the filter or anything? Or can it wait until spring to get it nice and clean when opening?


I think of all the parts of the pool ownership, the closing is the most concerning to me. I really don't want to break something expensive and underground.

I've attached a picture of my pool house and equipment and one (bad) drawing of the layout, in case that helps.

Thanks.

pool_Plumbing_Layout.jpg20171015_174923.jpg
 
7. Using my shop vac, close shallow skimmer and the main drain, blow into deep skimmer and out the return until basically dry. How do I atttach the shop vac to the skimmer tightly?
Click to expand...

Very well written, including the picture and diagrams. One of my concerns is that you will be using a shop vac from the skimmer, back to the equipment pad to clear everything out. You may not have enough volume to do this. If you isolate each area, the shop vac may be successful as you are lowering the water level below the returns. I doubt you will be successful with the main drain. You may want to try clearing this line from the equipment pad.

Please read the thread below, as I have just updated the first post with some pictures. This may give you some ideas on what the next step is. After reading, please post only questions you have in sequence with numbers or bullet points and I will be glad to help you out. Other members may chime in as well. Thanks!

The concept of closing an in ground swimming pool
 
Re: plugs for returns...I use these...your previous owner may have left some there with the gizmo...here's what dck plugs look like, and where to get em:
https://www.amazon.com/Anderson-Manufacturing-WDP150-Winter-Valve/dp/B003JIFFOQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1508158266&sr=1-1&keywords=Duck+plugs

For swg, its a personal choice, but this is handy - a "blank" to fit in winter, not sure if circupool makes them, this one is for Pentair: https://www.amazon.com/Pentair-520588-Replacement-Sanitizer-Automation/dp/B004VU8A1Q/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1508158515&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=Salt+water+generator+dummy+cell
 

Hi There: Well done....My thoughts inserted in CAPS....and since I moved from FL to MD 4 years ago, and had/have pools in both locations, closing a pool was like "what"???? But I do my own but hire a pool tech for the cover only.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
4. Get out my cover (mesh safety cover with the brass things, I need to make sure I can find them all, some are out). I STORE MINE IS A LOFT IN MY SHED AND ADD MOTH BALLS OR POWDERED RODENT/MOLE REPELLANT IN THE BAG WHEN OPENING THE POOL IN SPRING.....TO KEEP THE MICE FROM EATING HOLES IN IT...KEEP IT HIGH OFF THE GROUND....
5. Use main drain to drain 4 inches below the returns. These are about 12 inches below my tile, so I'll be about 16 inches below tile, is that fine? SURE, WORKS FOR ME. BUT I HAVE ONE RETURN (VAC0 THAT IS REALLY BELOW THAT I JUST PUT THE PLUG IN WHILE THE AIR IS FLOWING OUT BELOW THE WATER LINE....THAT WAY I DON'T HAVE TO DRAIN THE POOL 12 INCHES MORE TAN NEEDED FOR THE OTHERS.

7. Using my shop vac, close shallow skimmer and the main drain, blow into deep skimmer and out the return until basically dry. How do I atttach the shop vac to the skimmer tightly? Then shut off that skimmer, do the other skimmer. YEP, THAT'S CORRECT, ONE AT A TIME....Shut off both skimmers. Then how do I blow out the main drain? SET YOUR VALVES TO BLOW AIR BACK OUT OF THE MAIN DRAIN, AFTER A FEW MINUTES CLOSE THAT PATH...Do I need to remove the SWG? YES!!! If I remove it do I need to cap both ends, or put in a blank? Do I drain the filter at all? ABSOLUTELY MUST DRAIN THE FILTER OR IT'LL BE A GONER FOR SURE.... LOL...JUST OPEN THE DRAIN VALVE AT THE BOTTOM. IT'LL TAKE A WHILE FOR IT TO ALL DRIBBLE OUT. MAKE SURE YOU REMOVE THE DRAIN STOPPER ON THE PUMP SKIMMER BASKET TOO...IT'S "CONVENTION" TO PUT THE PLUGS IN TO THE SKIMMER BASKET FOR STORAGE TILL SPRING. When I'm blowing out the returns and skimmers do I turn the multiport to recirculate instead of filter? YES, THAT'S WHAT I DO....AND THE FILTER IS DRAINING AT THE SAME TIME BY REMOVING THE DRAIN PLUG. THEY SAY IT'S BEST TO LEAVE THE MULTI-PORT VALE IN BETWEEN TWO POSITIONS DURING THE POOL CLOSURE TIME, SO POP IT UP AND IN BETWEEN RECIRC AND NORMAL (OR WHATEVER, I DOUBT IT MATTERS WHICH, JUST THAT ITS IN BETWEEN TWO NORMAL POSITIONS)...I HAVE A MEDIUM SIZED RIGID BRAND SHOP VAC AND IT WORKS JUST FINE. I MADE A CUSTOM 1 1/2 ADAPTER TO SCREW IN TO THE FEMALE THREADED END AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SKIMMER....A 3 F PVC PIPE TO GET ME TWO FEET ABOVE THE TOP OF THE SKIMMER....AND A CLAMP TO CONNECT TO THE BLOWER HOSE. YES, FOR SURE REMOVE SWG....MAKE SURE POWER IS OFF BEFORE YOU DISCONNECT THE POWER CABLE TO THE CONTROLLER BOX...WHEN REMOVED I JUST COVER EACH REMAINING EXPOSED UNION WITH A PLASTIC BAGGIE AND A ZIP TIE. THE SWG ITSELF IS CAREFULLY STORED IN A FOOT LOCKER, ALSO WRAPPED AND COVERED UP WELL IN AN OLD TOWEL. YOU CAN BUY A CAP FOR ONE END OF THE SWG FOR PERIODIC (YEARLY) MURIATIC ACID SCALE CLEANING (SPRING IS GOOD TIME TO DO THIS 5 PARTS WATER 1 PART ACID, LET IS BUBBLE FOR A FEW MINUTES) ...I USUALLY JUST PUT THIS ON DURING WINTER FOR THE HECK OF IT.
8. Remove drain plugs in filter and heater. I USUALLY DO NOT REMOVE THE PLUGS IN THE HEATER, AS THE BLOWER GETS ALL OF THE WATER IN THE HEATER OUT. WORKS FINE. MY POOL TECH CONVINCED ME... I WAS SKEPTICAL BUT IT'S OK FOR 4 YEARS....THE HEATER IS IN LINE WITH THE SYSTEM, SO ALL THE AIR FROM THE SKIMMER TO THE POOL RETURNS GOES RIGHT THRU THE HEATER. IT'S DRY AT THE END OF THE PROCESS. REMOVE IF YOU WISH. FOR ME, 4 YEARS AND NO ISSUES.
9. Is anti-freeze necessary? Personal decision? If so, where do I need to add it? I ADD IT TO THE SKIMMER AFTER THE GIZMOS ARE INSTALLED. I THINK I MAY HAVE POURED SOME IN TO THE SKIMMER BASKET BEFORE GIZMOS ALSO, AND IT RUNS BACK TOWARD THE SUCTION LINES AT THE PUMP BASKET. PROBABLY NOT NECESSARY.
10. I need some expandable rubber plugs for the two returns, and maybe the SWG unions? What size are returns normally? Like 1/2" PVC? 3/4"? Can I just get these at the hardware store? WHERE ARE THE OLD PLUGS? MY FREEZE PLUGS WERE VERY OLD AND RUBBER WAS CRACKED WHEN I MOVED IN TO THIS HOUSE WITH EXISTING POOL...SO I KNEW WHAT SIZES I NEEDED...I GOT NEW ONES AT THE POOL STORE OR AMAZON HAS THEM TOO...THEY COME IN DIFFERENT SIZES LIKE #8, #9...YOU JUST GOT TO FIGURE IT OUT BUT THEY SHOULD HAVE THE CORRECT SIZES IN STOCK. MEASURE THE DIAMETER OF THE RETURNS ON THE WALL. BY THE WAY, I DON'T DRAIN THE WATER BELOW THE VAC RETURN...IT'S 16 INCHES BELOW THE TILE....I JUST PUT THE PLUG IN WHILE THE AIR IS HAS BEEN FLOWING FOR A LONG TIME, INSURING ALL THE WATER IS OUT OF THE LINE......AND LOTS OF BUBBLES ARE COMING OUT. YOU CAN FEEL THE PRESSURE OF THE AIR WHEN INSTALLING THE PLUG.
11. Put Gizzmos in the skimmers (already have a couple I think)...OH YEAH...GREAT $6 INVESTMENT. ONE ISSUE I HAD AND FIXED: I MADE A SHORT RISER FOR MY GIZMOS BECAUSE THE SHOULDER OF THE GIZMO BELOW THE THREADS BOTTOMED OUT ON THE BOTTOM OF THE SKIMMER...I.E. IT WOULD NOT THREAD IN ALL THE WAY TO MAKE A SEAL....A PAIN BUT IT WORKS WELL NOW. RISER IS STD PVC ADAPETRS ONLY, ONE MALE AND ONE FEMALE GETS IT DONE.....EASY. I USE PVC TAPE ON THE GIZMO AND RISER ALSO. JUST BECUASE...PROBABLY NOT REQUIRED.
12. Put the cover on and tighten it or whatever. I'll figure this out I'm sure. LIKE I SAID, I HIRE A TWO MAN CREW FOR THIS AND IT'S TOTALLY WORTH THE $75 THEY CHARGE. I TRIED PUTTING THE COVER ON FIRST YEAR ....TOTAL PAIN AND IT SORT OF LEFT A BAD TASTE IN MY MOUTH. AND BACK PAINS TOO.. lol.
13. Put the automatic pump on the cover, just toss it into the middle? I PUT MY PUMP UNDER THE WATER LINE...ON A LOVE SEAT CUT OUT AREA AT THE POOL WALL IN THE DEEP END. SO THE PUMP SITS ABOUT A FOOT OR SO BELOW THE WATER LINE. I'LL CHECK THE WATER LEVEL EVERY SO OFTEN BY PULLING UP ONE / TWO STRAPS OF THE COVER AND TAKING A PEEK AT THE LEVEL. IF IT NEEDS A PUMP, I JUST PLUG IT IN VIA EXTENSION CORD TO THE AC OUTLET WHERE MY EQUIPMENT IS.

GOOD LUCK....AND BY THE WAY.......I CLOSE MY OWN SPRINKLER SYSTEM ALSO WITH A SMALL 5 GALLON NAIL GUN PORTER-CABLE COMPRESSOR...TAKES A WHILE LONGER THAN THE HUGE TRUCK MOUNT COMPRESSOR WIT A 200 GALLON TANK THEY BRING.......AND I PROGRAM MY DIGITAL AUTO-TIMER TO DO ALL TEN ZONES SO I CAN SET IT UP AND WALK AWAY... PIECE OF CAKE, ONE MINUTE VALVES OPEN EMPTIES OUT THE COMPRESSOR, 5 MINUTES CLOSED SO THE COMPRESSOR CAN RE-CHARGE, THEN OPEN THE NEXT ZONE. I USUALLY DO IT THREE TIMES TO BE SURE ALL THE WATER HAS BEEN EVACUATED AND IT LOOKS LIKE ONLY VAPOR / STREAM IS COMING OUT OF THE HEADS.......60 PSI IS ALL YOU NEED. ANYTHING MORE DAMAGES THE POP UP HEADS. CAN'T HANDLE PAYING THE LOCAL SPRINKLER CO. $285 TO DO A 30 MINUTE JOB FOR MY SPRINKLER SYSTEM CLOSING. :) DIY!
 
Swampwoman:

Do you use the duck plugs? Some members have had bad experiences with them, but some use them with great results. A dummy pipe is a great investment. My Hayward dummy pipe was installed prior to clearing the lines. Use professional lube first. In the first month of the season, I may use liquid chlorine as the pump run time will be very limited and hard to gauge and/or weather may be too cold for the SWG to operate efficiently. First year, so I am not 100% sure.

I have even thought about setting up a temporary pool, dumping 1,000 gallons of water and after completing the closing, putting the water back. The only problem with this is that you can not tell if air is leaking out of the returns with the black plugs unless they are still in water.

Ironically in NJ, almost every PB using the Hayward super pumps, which make it real convenient with the Cyclone and modified cover. I have helped friends close pools through the last few years and between meals and liquor, I believe the investment has paid for itself, let alone the $$$ I have saved from the last 3 years worth of pool closings. At $266 per year, I am already $400 ahead of the game.
 
Yes, I used duck plugs in years prior to staying open via winter dome. Never had any problem with them. I can't recall who, but there's another guide here that uses them as well.

What kinds of problems have you seen, compared with the rubber type? I recall a few posters complaining that the rubber expansion plugs leaked.

In either case, the extra insurance of RV antifreeze starts to make sense ;)

I don't miss closing, but of course have a completely different set of perils to guard against, such as power outage (now have generator to run pool system) and heater or pump failure (now have a backup pump at the ready for installation if need be.) and, of course, snow load ;)

So I've traded long-term what-ifs for "immediate" potential crisis ;) Hi ho.
 
What kinds of problems have you seen, compared with the rubber type? I recall a few posters complaining that the rubber expansion plugs leaked.
Click to expand...

The posters were not specific, but basing off memory. Regarding rubber expansion plugs leaking, this is a possibility if you do not place them flush. With me, I use goggles to ensure proper flush placement, and then I even have to use small pliers for another full turn or so. The expansion is on the outside, and the plugs to not expand on the threads in the returns. Some members are concerned about cracking the face plates, but that is usually associated with over tightening the screws. The plugs expand evenly. The plugs that give you trouble are the brand new ones, usually the first year.

In the spring, I am going to look at # 9, instead of # 10 to see if they fit flush inside the returns. We all have to find what our comfort level is and what works.
 
Catanzaro said:
Very well written, including the picture and diagrams. One of my concerns is that you will be using a shop vac from the skimmer, back to the equipment pad to clear everything out. You may not have enough volume to do this. If you isolate each area, the shop vac may be successful as you are lowering the water level below the returns. I doubt you will be successful with the main drain. You may want to try clearing this line from the equipment pad.

Please read the thread below, as I have just updated the first post with some pictures. This may give you some ideas on what the next step is. After reading, please post only questions you have in sequence with numbers or bullet points and I will be glad to help you out. Other members may chime in as well. Thanks!

The concept of closing an in ground swimming pool
Click to expand...


Okay, that's a good point. I'll try to rig something up to clear from the pad. There is a union at my pump outlet, but it's very tight.

Maybe I'll try just putting my flexible hose into the pump basket as you show, or there's also a union where the pressure side cleaner is (I don't use this and never plan to) so I could maybe go in there (you can see it peeking out under the SWG flow switch in my picture).

I think I understand the concepts and the timing, it's just the getting air in part that I'll have to play around with I guess.

Is there a downside to draining below the returns? It sounds easier to me.

Since my pad is inside the pool house (not heated, but not exposed) I think I'll just tape some plastic over the SWG unions once I remove the SWG. Should keep out condensation. The system isn't airtight anyway with the drain plugs out.
 
Is there a downside to draining below the returns? It sounds easier to me.
Click to expand...

Only thing I can think of is more pressure on the walls. But considering you have a concrete pool, the answer is no, no downside like a steel wall pool. You can easily clear out lines when no water is present, but refresh my memory (do you have a main drain) and what blower are you using to clear the lines? Thanks!
 
Catanzaro said:
Only thing I can think of is more pressure on the walls. But considering you have a concrete pool, the answer is no, no downside like a steel wall pool. You can easily clear out lines when no water is present, but refresh my memory (do you have a main drain) and what blower are you using to clear the lines? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Yes to main drain, and I'm hoping to use a medium large shop-vac. I also have a larger shop vac if I need to bring it from my in-laws (probably a 6 HP rated one if I had to guess, mine is probably 4 or something). I also have a pancake compressor, but it seems like that won't work as well.
 

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Okay, so I mostly finished today. A little injured because I fell in moving the cover and hit the sun shelf on the way in, but the cover is on and the pool lines are all cleared.

I used the shop vac to blow from the skimmers into the pump basket.

I took out the salt water generator and used the shop vac to blow out the returns.

Put the compressor in the same place and blew out the main drain and slammed it shut.

Took out a section of pipe between the heater and multi port that had unions and blew out the heater with the shop vac. Blew out the pump with the shop vac through multi port on the other side.

Blew out the pressure side cleaner through the multi port.

Need to finish up tomorrow with draining the filter (there's a lot of water and my pool house is flooding, the sand can't percolate fast enough, I guess I could maybe move the waste hose) and cleaning up the robot and stuff.

I think it all worked well enough. I'm a little concerned I have a leaking main drain somewhere. The pool seems to be losing lots of water, I haven't done a bucket test yet. When I pull water just from the main drain I seem to get a decent bit of air. Doesn't happen pulling from skimmers. I'm hoping if it is it's just under the ground and I can maybe repair. I'll monitor the level this winter and do a bucket test in spring maybe.

I didn't think to lube my valves before closing, so they'll have to wait until spring. I can't move the main drain one now. I have a few no lube and a couple older ones.
 
I took out the salt water generator and used the shop vac to blow out the returns.

Put the compressor in the same place and blew out the main drain and slammed it shut.
Click to expand...

Can you go into a little more detail on this one? Do you not have a shut off valve somewhere at the pump for the main drain? Can you clear the line through there? Hard to tell from pictures and diagram. Thanks!
 
There is a three way at the returns (right after the SWG) and then another three way at the skimmers (after the valve to choose deep or shallow), right before the pump. The main drain is connected between those two three ways, so it can be used as a return or to pull.

So I left the main drain shut from the skimmer side, had the return valve turned to open the main drain, used compressor towards the return three way, and then shut that valve once it bubbled for a few seconds (longer and I ran out of pressure in my tank).

Since I can't actually shut that return valve I closed the main drain side and the returns are open, but that's fine.

I didn't see a compressor fitting on the pump, but if there was one that would've helped probably.
 
I do have a concern about two things I think.

My cover is mesh safety.

How do I keep rain water out of my skimmers, they're not even covered totally by the cover.

Do I need to put a pump under the cover on the steps to keep the level low enough if it rains? Do I just put it in when I need it and then take it out?

Thanks for all the help.
 
I'm in the same boat as my skimmer box cover is just "outside" of the cover and of course rain water etc will enter the skimmer over the winter. No problem. Just make sure you have a Gizmo, or cut up pool noodles in the skimmer box to handle any potential ice expansion. I happen to use the empty antifreeze bottle in each of my skimmers. I also pour antifreeze into the skimmer box after it is plugged for the winter to help a little.
As far as pumping water out...I live in Michigan and never do. I let the water fill up over the winter and use it when I open. As long as everything is plugged up you should be OK. I might be concerned if the water ever got high enough to hit water tile or enter the skimmer box. But so far my Michigan winters have never filled up my pool that high. I probably would pump out at that point.
 
kchinger said:
I do have a concern about two things I think.

My cover is mesh safety.

How do I keep rain water out of my skimmers, they're not even covered totally by the cover.

Do I need to put a pump under the cover on the steps to keep the level low enough if it rains? Do I just put it in when I need it and then take it out?

Thanks for all the help.
Click to expand...

Pools should be drained enough to compensate for the winter. I drain below the skimmers only. I do have to pump some water mid way during the winter. So a pump would be helpful, but you can do this as rain water builds up. Do not worry about the skimmers as the Gizzmo is design for ice absorption and if you used a rubber plug, just place foam rope and a Gizzmo secured in the housing.
 
Catanzaro said:
Pools should be drained enough to compensate for the winter. I drain below the skimmers only. I do have to pump some water mid way during the winter. So a pump would be helpful, but you can do this as rain water builds up. Do not worry about the skimmers as the Gizzmo is design for ice absorption and if you used a rubber plug, just place foam rope and a Gizzmo secured in the housing.
Click to expand...
Okay. I drained about 6 inches below the skimmers. I'll keep an eye on the level. Do I need to keep the level below the skimmers I assume? I have a pump if I need it.

For the skimmers I used gizmos with thread tape. So it's no problem to allow water to get in? Just don't worry about it? Should I put some noodle in anyway as backup? Do you just coil in the bottom? Would it hurt to put some tape or something over the holes in the lid?

One skimmer already has a small crack in the side that I haven't fixed yet (above the normal water line).
 

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