Anticipate & Eliminate Problems w/Pool Chemistry

[Sinkhole]

Hi there Sinkhole - just add water - was the first thing that came to mind when creating a user name.

A friend of mine passed away this last May and somehow I got involved in taking care of his pool for his widow. Somehow? Ha. I will tell you why. When I saw the price for professional pool care... let's just say I decided to jump in and do the Pool Boy thing and save his wife some money this summer. I took care of an above ground 4X18 pool almost 40 years ago for a couple years. So how hard could it be? LOL That's the extent of my experience.

The pool I am taking care of now is made of plaster with 34,000 gallons and one of those DE filters FNSPlus (the biggun). My hands get itchy when I lean on the top half. Go figure.

So far so good except for CYA which is around 178 ppm. Everything else on target except FC which I have a tendency to chase a bit. Yeah it's low. But it's clear as a bell! I'm using a non-chlorine oxidizer once a week with CC=0 last checked today.

Just picked up some Bio-Active (8 oz - not enough I know) online for around $38. We will see how that works. If the CYA comes down below 120 ppm I will be please with it. Anyway it beats emptying out 17,000 gallons as advised by the local pool supply company and refilling to the tune of $170.

Know what I mean? LOL

I'm reading what I can and when I put it all together I still come up 2+2=5. The only really confusing thing is my K-1004 ha been showing pH at 7.2 but the pool supply company says it's 7.6. That's quite a color change. I'm thinking that the pool supply company doesn't have a good test sample available or calibrate their equipment, but what do I know? l'll figure it out.

If anyone needs a wing man I'm your guy because where it comes to pools believe me I'm winging it. LOL

Sorry about the ramble. Man it's hot outside!

 

[jblizzle]

Re: Anticipate & Eliminate Problems w/Pool Chemistry

Welcome to TFP!!!

Return the Bioactive ... it does not work as proven in many threads. Best to just replace the water to lower the CYA.

How are you testing?

 

[pooldv]

Re: Anticipate & Eliminate Problems w/Pool Chemistry

Welcome to TFP!

 

[Flying Tivo]

Re: Anticipate & Eliminate Problems w/Pool Chemistry

Your hands get itchy because most of the filter tanks are made up of fiberglass. If its aging, some fibers might start showing up. You can paint over it.

Felipe

 

[Sinkhole]

Re: Anticipate & Eliminate Problems w/Pool Chemistry

Thanks for the welcome!

How am I testing? The last visit to the doctor he said that all my tests were good! Thanks for asking.

Oh, I'm sorry. You mean the pool.

For hardness and CYA I take the sample to a local pool service company. It doesn't cost anything and every time I walk in I get a free frisbee.

Back at the pool I test with the Taylor K-1004 DPD Kit for FC, CC, TC, pH and TA.

 

[Sinkhole]

Re: Anticipate & Eliminate Problems w/Pool Chemistry

The "... hands get itchy when I lean on the top half. Go figure" comment was meant to be stupid funny. I figured it was fiberglass pretty quick but thanks.

"Comedy isn't pretty."
-- Steve Martin

 

[Rollercoastr]

Re: Anticipate & Eliminate Problems w/Pool Chemistry

Heya Sinky! (I figured you'd appreciate that more than "hole")

I'm willing to bet a huge pile of frisbees that test results you're getting for free are worth every penny...

You need a quality test kit. We recommend either the TF-100 or the K2006. Each comes with an option to "upsize" to accommodate frequent testing, but with clear water in mid-August, the regular sizes will probably do.

 

[jblizzle]

Re: Anticipate & Eliminate Problems w/Pool Chemistry

Yup, don't trust the pool store testing, especially the CYA test ... which happens to be critical as it determines your required FC levels: [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]

 

[Sinkhole]

Re: Anticipate & Eliminate Problems w/Pool Chemistry

Let me start by asking a quiz question. what company used to advertise "Better living through chemistry?" Don't google search to cheat!

Before I start let me say as in my personal introduction my pool experience is from 40 years ago so let's just say I can use the help.

Pool Condition

Today the water is 78 degrees and crystal clear... unbelievably crystal clear. There are a couple small stains near what looks like little plugs on the bottom of the deep end near the drain. The spa has had a pale green stain on the plaster which I tried to scrub off in May with no success. The stain hasn't gotten any worse over the summer. Other than that I don't see any problems but maybe I'm missing something.

Any comments?

Local Pool Store Water Test

Anyway. I'm at the local pool service company where I bring a pool sample from time to time. I do so because the test kit (Taylor K-1004) I use doesn't do CH or CYA. My numbers at the pool place came up as follows:

FC = 1.37 ppm
TC = 1.37 ppm
CC = 0 ppm
pH = 7.6 (down from 7.7 - 2 weeks prior)
Hardness = 207 ppm (down from 220 - 2 weeks prior)
Alkalinity = 92 ppm (down from 104 - 2 weeks prior)
CYA = 178 ppm (up from 173 - 2 weeks prior)
Copper = 0 ppm
Iron = 0 ppm
Phosphate = 591 ppb (down from 770 ppb - 2 weeks prior)


NOTE: The water test showed a Saturation Index of -0.2 with the water temperature at 70 degrees.
When I plugged them into the Pool Calculator the CSI = -0.51


The Local Pool Store Guy Comments

The service guy at the pool company says, "How often do you or have you shocked the pool?" I said once so far this year. He then said "I don't recommend it be done weekly but you should do it every now and then."

I also asked him about the CYA and he said "We like to see it between 100 - 150 ppm."

Now I'm Confused

Why do I need to SLAM (shock whatever) the pool? What am I missing here? Why am I using this non-chlorine oxidizer on the a weekly basis to maintain my FC/TC/CC numbers? He had to have seen the test result. Am I missing something here?

Any comments?

Now I Am Totally Confused

As I research through and read the labels on everything I have found that different companies have different numbers for the proper pH, TA, CH and CYA levels.

I feel that I am a character in the old joke "Is it me or is it him? It's him, right?"

Comment only if it's him. LOL

Course of Action Based on Pool Water Test Results

Since this is a plaster pool I am adding Baking Soda to get the TA number up to between 110 ppm & 120 ppm. I would like to get the CH up to 250 ppm which will get the CSI to around -0.1 at 78-80 degrees. I just need to find the Calcium Chloride but Lowes and Home Despot don't have it in stock. (Maybe I will check out Staples since I saw some post on that around here somewhere.)

I'm not prepared to half empty the pool at this point in the season to get the CYA down. But if there are alternatives I'd appreciate the input. I know about Bio-Active and it has been a failure for many here but since I already bought it I'm going to give it a go and watch my FC/TC/CC along with pH closely for 10 days then take another sample to the "questionably" informative pool guy.

Pool closing is last week of September.

Any and all comments welcome.

 

[Sinkhole]

Re: Anticipate & Eliminate Problems w/Pool Chemistry

Test Kit! Test Kit! We don' need no stinkin' test kit!

Sorry I had to get that off my chest. I have the Taylor K-1004... and don't call me Stinky. LOL

 

[mknauss]

Re: Anticipate & Eliminate Problems w/Pool Chemistry

You will not be able to maintain your pool water chemistry in the long run with that kit.

Up to you -- there are better tools available. Just have to have the desire to use them.

Take care.

 

[Sinkhole]

Re: Anticipate & Eliminate Problems w/Pool Chemistry

Test Kit! Test Kit! We don' need no stinkin' test kit!
--Adapted from "Blazing Saddles"

I have the Taylor K-1004... and don't call me Stinky unless you're an Abbott & Costello fan. LOL

Sorry double post. I like this one better though.

 

[mknauss]

Re: Anticipate & Eliminate Problems w/Pool Chemistry

TFP Clear in North Dallas - there is water in there

You ask if you are Crystal Clear -- see above -- are you?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Re: Anticipate & Eliminate Problems w/Pool Chemistry

Overall - get your own test kit and then you can get much more reliable testing done. Pool stores are notoriously wrong when it comes to CH and CYA tests and it doesn't matter how long they've been in business or what fancy machines they use or don't use. You are the only person that cares about your pool therefore only you will do the tests correctly. The pool stores and service companies are there to make money, period. It doesn't matter to them if they get your test results right or not, as long as they can sell something based on their "free" testing, that's all that matters.

Purchase a Taylor K-2006 or a TF-100 and you'll get all the tests you need to make informed decisions about your pool.

Stains - possibly metal (iron or copper). Crush up some vitamin C tablets in a nylon and press it against the stains for a few minutes, the the stain lightens then it is a metal stain.

Chemistry -

You can stop treating for phosphates as that has nothing to do with overall good chemistry and sanitation. As long as you maintain the correct FC/CYA ratio (as TFP teaches in Pool School), phosphates are mostly irrelevant.

If that CYA number is to be believed (and I doubt it), then you have WAAAAAAY TOO MUCH CYA in your water. CYA greatly reduces the levels of active chlorine (hypochlorous acid and hypochlorite) in the water leaving you unprotected against algae blooms and bacterial growth. Your FC is far too low for your CYA level and that is a recipe for an algae bloom.

Deal with your CSI AFTER you fix your CYA problem.

Pool Store Advice - to be ignored at all times.

Non-chlorine Shock - why?? If you have adequate chlorine levels, you absolutely do not need MPS for your pool. It's a huge waste of money and it skews the FC/CC testing. Simply put, it's a way for pool stores to make money off you.

Course of Action - Get a proper test kit and post results from that, then we can help you better

 

[Sinkhole]

Re: Anticipate & Eliminate Problems w/Pool Chemistry

Mknauss,

I have seen this in other posts but unfortunately not until after I purchased the kit.

Thanks

- - - Updated - - -

I assume you understand the metaphor, and yes indeed I am! Never seen water as clear in my life. Let's just say I'm lucky then and leave it at that.

 

[Sinkhole]

Re:  Anticipate & Eliminate Problems w/Pool Chemistry

Sorry I thought I used "Not My Pool" as a subject heading in the Introduce yourself section. Now all my posts are showing over here under "Anticipate & Eliminate Problems w/Pool chemsitry." Can this be fixed?

 

[kimkats]

Sinky, I applaud your willingness to help the lady.

I have merged your two threads as both are very important in telling the whole story of what you are doing.

I am going to share a couple of links with you. You might have found them already on your own but want to make sure you see them if you have not already:

Pool School - Basic Pool Care Schedule

Pool School - Recommended Levels

Bookmark these:

Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html

Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

Kim

 

[Sinkhole]

Re:  Anticipate & Eliminate Problems w/Pool Chemistry

Matt,

I am new to taking care of a pool so please exercise some patience here. I am not looking for advice perse since the pool is clear but I do appreciate the advice you offer. At this point in the season I am not going to drain 17,000 gallons from the pool for a refill as a solution for CYA. I am going to control the other variables the best I can and prepare for closing sometime in September.

The non-chlorine oxidizer is used because the owner of the pool did not want to take the pool out of use for a few days - to SLAM - for the sake of her grandkids. I can't blame her. My solution was to use the oxidizer on a weekly maintenance basis. I am aware that I need to wait a few days and then take a chlorine test for FC/TC/CC.

The pool is crystal clear and I meant to ask for some observations that weren't obvious. I apologize if I wasn't "crystal clear" as my signature may imply. I am not going to replace the K-1004 kit but will upgrade for the next year.

Thanks for your comments on the stains in the deep end but I just can't hold my breath that long any more. LOL

 

[Sinkhole]

Thanks for cheerleading me on Kim

I hate emojis LOL. There that's better. I read through most of the Pool School stuff but appreciate you whittling it down for me. As you may have seen I have already decided to upgrade the testing kit for next year. It seems to me that people really hate pool service companies around these parts. I was dismayed to be told that I can't trust the CH and CYA numbers their fancy machine produces or their advice.

Maybe I should grab about 4 or 5 samples at the same time and run the circuit of pool service companies and see how their tests vary. I do know that the company I go to varies from my pH numbers where I show 7.2 (Taylor K-1004) they show 7.7 one week then 7.6 the next.

Please don't tell me that I'm not serious as others have implied because of the K-1004. Like they don't remember the first year they tried to take care of a 34,000 gallon pool? Pulleeease!

I just happen to have a test kit that everyone seems to hate. So be it, label me a bad pool citizen and drown me.

The pool is crystal clear, the water refreshing and no one got botulism or whatever it is one gets from an unclean pool or potato soup*. Not sure which. Oh yeah, no earaches either.

There I feel much better now.


* obscure reference for sure. Think 1971 Bon Vivant

 

[kimkats]

It is not that we hate your test kit. It is the fact it is not complete that is messing things up

Here is a link to the two tests you are missing:
TFTestkits.net

TFTestkits.net

The CH test can wait for a little while.

Kim (how can you not like my mini me??)