Disable ORP for a better performance outcome?

[Lazyman]

Forgot to mention orp readings. It was climbing from 540 and is now at 614.

The salt level is now displaying 3100, but it is actually 2500 by my test an hour ago. The reading is going up not down as it should.

Also the ph shows 7.5 but I measured 7.3 on the test. It is also introducing acid into the pool which doesn't seem right. I did not change the calibration of anything since I got it. Maybe it is off?

I'm starting to start to panic.


Siphoning water now, but I hate to shut off the system as the level gets below the skimmer. I'll keep an eye on things.

 

[JasonLion]

You don't want to add any chemicals via the skimmer, and you want to keep all chemical additions far away from the skimmer, if at a all possible, least stronger concentrations of the chemical get into the sensor cell and throw off the readings for a while.

My experience with the salt and PH sensors is that they can have an offset from the test kit readings, but the offset is generally small and remained fairly stable. The only exception I noticed, was the PH reading would be off by a little more than usual when the FC level was higher than usual. Both salt and PH can be calibrated, to get their readings to agree with the test kit, but you don't normally want to do that when the system is new, as new sensors are often more accurate than the test kit. Next year, when the sensors have had time to drift, they will need to be re-calibrated.

It is normal for the system to be adding acid slowly when it thinks the PH is at 7.5. The PH will be constantly drifting up, and it adds acid in anticipation of that to maintain the PH at 7.5.

 

[Lazyman]

Yes, I'll hold off on any calibrating for now.

Regarding the skimmer, I wanted to keep the pump running until I got below the skimmer line, of course. Then I had to shut the system down including pump/swg. Now the water is way below the skimmer and still going. I'll do about 30-40% and refill it.

This mornning, after a partial refill, my ph was 7.3, but the display said 7.5 AND was adding acid. That is what was puzzling me. Perhaps it was too much fc like you mentioned above that made the difference in measurement.

My goal is 30-40 cya and I'll take it from there. Should I shoot for 30 exactly or is that range OK?

I'm going to experience other problems that arise from this. I can tell. lol

Thanks Jason.

 

[Aquaman95]

What is your pH setpoint?

If it's 7.5 you're probably OK. If I remember the controller this unit is based around I believe the MP logic works on 2 pH digits but the display is truncated to just one so if your setpoint is 7.5 and the unit is feeding acid to lower the pH it probably is actually seeing 7.56 or something like that with the 2nd digit being over 7.5.

It's not unusual for the pH to read slightly different than the test kit. As long as it's not significant I wouldn't worry about it or you can calibrate it to match your kit.

 

[Lazyman]

Yeah, not too worried right now about that. There are other fish to fry at this point.

My ph is set to 7.5 and the display does read in two digits past the decimal point. 7.35 and so on.

It has been a steady 7.5 since this all started. i can see how the acid gets into the sytem at different times. Seems to bwe working OK in that respect.

The orp set point is 650. Maybe that should be lowered to make it stop producing chlorine?

At this point I'm placing all my bets on the cya level being lower for it to work. The orp reading actually went down today just before I shut down the system when draining the water.

Any thoughts on the "No flow"/"Has flow" option? Currently I'm on the "No flow". When I go into "Has flow" it reads the error message with red blinking light.

 

[Aquaman95]

Yeah, not too worried right now about that. There are other fish to fry at this point.

My ph is set to 7.5 and the display does read in two digits past the decimal point. 7.35 and so on.

It has been a steady 7.5 since this all started. i can see how the acid gets into the sytem at different times. Seems to bwe working OK in that respect.

The orp set point is 650. Maybe that should be lowered to make it stop producing chlorine?

I'd do that once you get the CYA down. You're adding a lot of fresh water right now that will probably use up some chlorine. When the CYA is down, post the corresponding ORP, FC, and CYA numberrs and I'll give you suggestions on a new setpoint.

At this point I'm placing all my bets on the cya level being lower for it to work. The orp reading actually went down today just before I shut down the system when draining the water.

Any thoughts on the "No flow"/"Has flow" option? Currently I'm on the "No flow". When I go into "Has flow" it reads the error message with red blinking light.

That part makes no sense to me. It sounds like your flow sensor in the flowcell wasn't registering flow so Autopilot just had you bypass it. I would try to solve the actual problem (it's going to be either low or no flow in the flowcell or a faulty flow sensor probably) but you should call Autopilot tech support to get their feedback. I may be misunderstanding what they had you do and I don't want to lead you wrong.

 

[Lazyman]

OK

The initial numbers will not be really accurate as they have been all over the map depending on the time I read them. With new water, I may need to wait at least 24 hours for it to get dialed down, right?

I can make a guess, and maybe that will go in the right direction, then tweak it perfectly later.

thanks.

I think you are understanding me correctly. It is I who may not have understoof what they did for me. You are, however, understanding my explanation of it. They "bypassed" flow sensor.... I think. Yes, maybe I have to call tech support again, but they will just want to send me another flow sensor or something. That's what the guy said in the first minute of our discussion. Then he went on to tell me the other stuff in the installer menu. I guess we do have to get to the bottom of it. Can they really bypass something and expect everything to work? Well, I'm not going to jump to conclusions too soon.

Still syphoning (two hoses) . I need a pump. I actually have one with too large of a pipe diameter. OK I need a reducer fitting!

 

[Lazyman]

Here are some numbers after the pool was refilled. Of course I didn't empty it enough. Just <40 cya level. Oh well, let's see what happens.

FC 5.5
CC 0
PH 7.4 (the display always reads 7.5 and it seems to work hard at keeping it there with the acid tank running on and off a lot.)
TA 80
CYA 38-40
salt 2300
orp reading 554, but I just turned it on 30 minutes ago.
Salt reading on the display 2400, so it's not too far off the 2300. Earlier this morning it was way off.

The display read "Warning low salt Add 46 pounds of salt." I didn't want to add it until I checked manually, but by the time I did that, the message went away and this message replaced it "Warning Check/Clean Cell"

I did check the cell but it was clean. It's still a couple of days old. I placed it back in, then it worked. A few minutes later, I got the same message again. "Check/clean cell.

I have not added salt yet. I came here to post numbers, then I'm going to the calculator to see how much salt to add. I don't want to fuly rely on the swg display to add my salt. I'm still feeling it out at this stage.

Thanks,

 

[Lazyman]

OK I added 40 pounds of salt. The calculator and the PP told me to add 44 pounds or so. Same amount, great!! 40 is good enough since it was one bag full.

The good news is the error message went away after that. The salt reading on the display is now 2600 and climbing (from 2400) and the orp is 585 and climbing (from 554). That sounds good, right?

The PH is always, always... at 7.5 with a 7.5 set point. I wonder if the high and low parameters were changed, if anything would happen? I have it on 7.2 and 7.8 low/high for ph.

Orp is at 650 set point and always shows "low" with the numbers I gave above.

Well, couldn't ask for too much more right now, right? How do things look? Should I change the orp set point within the next two days or so?

Do I need to check my FC manually to measure it to the orp setting? Not sure where to go from here?

I've been dicouraged all day, especially after the error messages. You have no idea... But now it seems to be going in the right direction. Maybe I can finally sleep tonight. lol

Thanks for reading this far.

 

[Lazyman]

ORP 618
Salt 2800

Woohoo!! Things are looking good.

And to think, I already dug a hole in the yard for this thing in case it didn't work out. I'll definitely be covering that back up. no worries.

Wow, that orp reading has never been that high. Too bad it's late, maybe I won't get any sleep after all.

 

[Lazyman]

Hmmm, orp 680+, so I switched to low speed on the motor. It immediately went down every refresh of the orp display. Now it's holding steady (at least the length of time I watched it) at 660 which is 10 over the set point.

Salt is a steady 2900 Hmm, maybe I did need that extra 4 pounds. lol

So I think I'll check the FC level now that the orp reading is 660. If it is in the range I need it to be, then 650 or so is good, right? If it's too high, then I should lower it or should I lower pump run time, which I haven't even considered yet. Things are all over the map.

Things are looking good, however. I'm happy for that.

 

[JasonLion]

The ORP set point gets adjusted to give you the FC level you want. Assuming the Total Control System is working correctly, you want to test the FC level, if it is too high you lower the ORP set point, if FC is too low you raise the ORP set point. It is best to not do this test/adjust cycle more than once a day and to test at the same time of day each day. The best time of day for this test is late afternoon, but that is not critical. It is fine to test the FC level more often, just don't be tempted to adjust the ORP set point constantly. The system needs some time to settle down between adjustments.

With an ORP controller, you can adjust the pump run time independently of the ORP set point. As long as you don't make the pump run time too short, the ORP controller will balance things out so it all works. If you have a two speed, or variable speed, pump then it is best to run the pump for a relatively long time on a low speed to save electricity, as long as the check flow error doesn't come up on low speed.

 

[Lazyman]

On the CYA/Chlorine chart for swg pools, the cya level bottoms out at 60. Should I just make my target FC a 3 or 2 at the 40 CYA that I have?

My FC earlier was 5.5, and after filling the pool, with the swg on for a couple of hours, it went to 7. The orp shot up to 670 from mid 500's. I then shut down everything for the night. It will restart at 8AM.

Knowing the above, even if I shorten run times, it may produce too much chlorine. I should try and guess what orp setting to make it and go from there in terms of pump run time. I was thinking low speed for 6 + 6 = 12 hrs each day. Still, 28gpm on low speed with a 7500 gallon pool. Too much.

Going from a 7 down to 2 or 3 FC level will be difficult with this system on my pool. I either have to reduce run time or orp setting much more than I originally thought. Remember, the 7FC figure was only after two hours of run time after filling the pool with water. I tested it before and after.

My power level is on 1 already.

Shall I just pick a number? 500? 550?

I know I should get my pump run time how I want it first. Then I can tweak the swg to work with my pump run time.

Thanks Jason, looks like (for now) the cya did it. I'm starting to think you know your stuff. lol

 

[JasonLion]

Just to recap, the pump run time has very little to do with the FC level when using ORP. Only the ORP set point affects the FC level, unless the pump run time is extremely short. Unlike with a regular SWG, you can be adjusting the pump run time and the SWG at the same time without worrying too much about their interaction.

I would try an ORP set point of 600 today and see what that does. Having too much chlorine is far better than having too little.

My Pool Calculator can calculate values from the Chlorine/CYA Chart that are not shown in the Pool School table. Enter your current CYA level in the Now column and then look at blue Suggested FC Levels section lower down.

 

[Lazyman]

Just to recap, the pump run time has very little to do with the FC level when using ORP. Only the ORP set point affects the FC level, unless the pump run time is extremely short. Unlike with a regular SWG, you can be adjusting the pump run time and the SWG at the same time without worrying too much about their interaction.

.

that's what i thought you said in the beginning, but thought it was too good to be true. Wow, we've got ourselves a nice system there! lol Thanks for the extra clarification.

Today was FC= 5.5 and at some point the orp read 650 exactly. So it seems I could go down like you mentioned and see how much it brings it down.

Thank you guys for the help! I'm so excited about this now. We've got 8+ people going into the pool today. Uh oh... I'll keep it on 650 for today at least.

I'll continue checking FC throughout the day if I can, and compare it to orp levels.

 

[Lazyman]

I hate to ask, but HOW do I change the orp setpoint? I've searched online, in the manual, went through the menus multiple times.

Seems to be working fine except the FC is too high. We've had 5 or so swimmers today for a few hours and the FC went up from 5.5 to 6.5 after testing it, when they got out.

 

[JasonLion]

while the ORP set point is displayed on the screen, press either the up or down button. The unit will then go into set ORP set point mode. Use up and down to adjust the set point, then press select to activate the new set point.

 

[Lazyman]

while the ORP set point is displayed on the screen, press either the up or down button. The unit will then go into set ORP set point mode. Use up and down to adjust the set point, then press select to activate the new set point.

Ahhh, I'm a tad too late. I had just finished finding it after pressing a hundred buttons. I sat down and logged in to edit my question.

Thanks and sorry, at the same time.


I did now change it to 600 from 650 orp setpoint. FC of 6.5 still seems high testing at the end of the day, after 5 swimmers in there for a few hours. I may need to change it a tad more but I'm taking baby steps.

Thanks for everything to both you and Aquaman. Things are working fine. I LOVE this thing.

 

[idowatsu]

Interesting discussion, mine is an indoor. I have a chemtrol hooked up to the pool pilot. I had discovered that keeping a 0 CYA level was the way to get correct the readings on the ORP sensor. I do need to adjust the set point and safety timer to maintain correct chlorine levels I have been running it for several years now,I still test almost daily for my records. It's the PH control I had to turn off. I have had a problem with PH constantly going down I haven't used the acid pump in a year. I use acid for TA adjustment with gassing. Recent ORP levels are falling 300 while pump is off at night. I will work on that algee problem soon as I can devote time to it.

 

[Lazyman]

Interesting discussion, mine is an indoor. I have a chemtrol hooked up to the pool pilot. I had discovered that keeping a 0 CYA level was the way to get correct the readings on the ORP sensor. I do need to adjust the set point and safety timer to maintain correct chlorine levels .

When did you decide to go down to 0 CYA? Did you gradually lower it to 0 after 20 failed? 10? If so, there is little hope for us using 40 or even 30. Perhaps indoor/outdoor are apples and oranges. Then disregard. Not sure how the orp sensor can know the difference. CYA is CYA.

I shut the whole thing off last night as the FC was at 9.5 and rising at 9:30PM. I didn't want to wake up with too high of a reading.

When I lowered orp setpoint down to 600 from 650, the readings quickly started going up. Is that normal? It was 732 orp while the setpoint was 600 at the time I shut it down. That's the first time it ever went that high, when I lowered the setpoint. I'm still trying to understand the correlation between the numbers. Either way, the FC is going higher. Power level is still at "1".

I'm going to run it today with the 600 setpoint and track the FC. I'm strongly feeling it will keep the Fc high.