Replaced Filter and Heater today, verify heater bypass

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Sal512

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May 17, 2015
138
Austin, TX
I got my DE filter and heater replaced today. I asked them to install two jandy 2 way valves so that i can bypass the heater if i want to. Please see the pictures below and tell me if they have done it correct. The installers barely spoke english so they were not able to explain to me. Also do we need to add DE before starting up the new pentair FNS DE filter ? They did not do that and ran it for 4 hrs, now the pressure meter shows 32. Its a Pentair 460737 mastertemp 400k btu, is propane gas model and Pentair 180008 fns plus filter 48 sqft
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They didn't add de?! Are you sure? If so they may have damaged the filter grids. Not supposed to use filter without de (except the first couple minutes it takes to add de when starting up the pump).

32psi is very high. When my pentair fns de filter gets to 18+ psi I consider it dirty and backwash. 32psi sounds like they added too much de.
 
Sal,

The short answer is.. yes, it appears the bypass will "work"..

That said, that has to be one of the worst install jobs I have ever seen... :confused:

It appears it will be very difficult to easily open the filter to clean it, which will need to be done at least once or twice a year.

One of the reasons that you install a heater bypass is so that you can remove the heater and still run your pool. I don't believe you can do this in the configuration you now have. But it is such a hot mess I'm not absolutely sure... :p

Is that filter in the same position as your old one? Did the multiport come with it, or is it the original one?

It also appears to me that the heater control wire to your automation is not connected (the one wrapped around the valve)

You should never run a DE filter for more than a few minutes without DE. A filter pressure of 32 is what I would think you'd have if the filter was very dirty...

If me, I'd send the owners of the company that did this a picture and ask what they think of the install job.

Thanks for posting and sorry for your troubles,

Jim R.
 
The filter is in the same position as the old one. The multiport valve you see in pic is new and it came with the new heater. The guys did not start the new heater yesterday, they just installed it and connected the propane tank which is in ground. The boss is expected today to come and start up the heater. Any precautions to be taken during first start of new heater ?
Yes, i agree that the plumping the way its done is a mess. The idea of having them install the bypass valves is to be able to run the pool even if heater is broken. Are you saying that cannot be done with the way its installed ?!! Thats not good.

I am not sure if the guys added DE before starting filter. They had left it running when i came home. My pool was pretty dirty because i was waiting for new filter for over two weeks. I managed it by fishing out leaves and adding liquid chlorine and muriatic acid. What should i tell the boss when he comes over in few hours? I am going to ask him to explain how the heater bypass will work, and ask him to clean the filter and show that pressure drops to 18. Can i tell them that they damaged my new filter ? How Can i verify if they added DE before starting new filter? If i ask them they may lie
 
The heater bypass will work, but it does not allow the heater to be isolated. It basically just created a jumper to redirect the heater inlet pipe to the heater outlet creating your bypass, but you would need a third valve on the heater outlet to actually be able to isolate and remove the heater. For example if you had a leaking winterizing plug in the heater, you could not run your pump without leaking water.

You would need a third valve, something like that red handled valve (although that is a cheaper valve, jandy is preferred) near the heater outlet to isolate the heater. What you have was more common in old heaters as a way to modify flow into the heater by "throttling" the heater inlet valve so only some of the water would go through the heater. Most standard heaters don't need that anymore.
 
Pool Tool said:
The heater bypass will work, but it does not allow the heater to be isolated. It basically just created a jumper to redirect the heater inlet pipe to the heater outlet creating your bypass, but you would need a third valve on the heater outlet to actually be able to isolate and remove the heater. For example if you had a leaking winterizing plug in the heater, you could not run your pump without leaking water.

You would need a third valve, something like that red handled valve (although that is a cheaper valve, jandy is preferred) near the heater outlet to isolate the heater. What you have was more common in old heaters as a way to modify flow into the heater by "throttling" the heater inlet valve so only some of the water would go through the heater. Most standard heaters don't need that anymore.
Click to expand...

Here is how the installer explained to me. When you close the jandy valve going into inlet of heater, and open the second jandy valve. The heater is isolated, because water is not entering the heater. If water does not enter the heater there is no water coming out of the heater, so placing a third valve in the outlet side of heater is not necessary
 
Sal512 said:
The filter is in the same position as the old one. The multiport valve you see in pic is new and it came with the new heater. The guys did not start the new heater yesterday, they just installed it and connected the propane tank which is in ground. The boss is expected today to come and start up the heater. Any precautions to be taken during first start of new heater ?
Yes, i agree that the plumping the way its done is a mess. The idea of having them install the bypass valves is to be able to run the pool even if heater is broken. Are you saying that cannot be done with the way its installed ?!! Thats not good.

I am not sure if the guys added DE before starting filter. They had left it running when i came home. My pool was pretty dirty because i was waiting for new filter for over two weeks. I managed it by fishing out leaves and adding liquid chlorine and muriatic acid. What should i tell the boss when he comes over in few hours? I am going to ask him to explain how the heater bypass will work, and ask him to clean the filter and show that pressure drops to 18. Can i tell them that they damaged my new filter ? How Can i verify if they added DE before starting new filter? If i ask them they may lie
Click to expand...

You're in a tough position. In a perfect world that plumbing would be torn out and re-done to give everything more room. You are limited by the placement of the pipes coming out of the ground. But considering that you need access to remove the cover of the DE filter 2-3 times a year, I would be mad every time I had to squeeze back there to remove the cover and clean the cells. There's a drain valve for the DE filter right in front of that (booster?) pump. How are you supposed to get to it to allow the filter to drain? I clean my cells in place, except for maybe in the fall.

I would think about taking the cover off if there's doubt that DE was added so you can do a visual inspection. Also get the boss to show you how your supposed to get back there(!) Also ask him if he thinks 32psi is normal.
 
"Here is how the installer explained to me. When you close the jandy valve going into inlet of heater, and open the second jandy valve. The heater is isolated, because water is not entering the heater. If water does not enter the heater there is no water coming out of the heater, so placing a third valve in the outlet side of heater is not necessary"

It is true that the heater is blocked off, but it is not isolated. What if that heater plug needed to be replaced or you had to replace the heat exchanger? The heater will remain pressurized and full of water at all times your pump is running indifferent of the position of those valves. Even worse is that your heater will sense pressure, satisfying the safety sensor, but will not have flow. Meaning that your heater could be turned on and run even without water running through it. Nothing catastrophic should happen but that may damage the heat exchanger, which is meant to be "cooled" by the flowing water.

I don't think is all that bad, but just wanted to point out that when I think isolated it means that I can remove that component and keep running. Although that is a rare occasion.
 
Sal,

The output side of the heater does not have a valve, so if you had to take the heater out, and tried to run the pump, water would just flow out the port where the heater was connected instead of back to the pool.

If I had been the install guy I would have at least offered to rebuild the whole pad to make it work, even if it were for more money.. If you turned me down, then at least my conscience would be clear... :p

Jim R.
 

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Sal512 said:
How can i check if DE was added to my new filter that was installed yesterday ?
Click to expand...

You can take the cover off and check. OR....you note the psi when the pump is running (not for long, a minute or less) without DE. That's your reference point. Then, after you add the correct amount of DE based on your filter specs, you note that psi as being the "clean" reference point. Most folks on these forums recommend a backwash after the pressure is 25%.
 
The boss looked at it and said that a third jandy valve is needed at the output side of the heater. He will send his guy to install it. As for the new filter installation, he said DE was not added by his installers. I told him thats wrong and why did they have filter pump running for 3 hours without DE. He says they dont normally add DE, its the home owner or homeowners regular pool guys job to add DE. I pointed out that homeowner was not around when his guys turned the new filter on without DE. He had no answer, he agreed it was a mistake and brushed it off saying it shouldnt have caused damage to filter, and then he backwashed and added DE. Now the pressure shows 22, he says for a 2 HP pump 22 pressure is fine. It cannot be lower. Please tell me if thats true ? Also when i switch it from pool mode to spa mode the pressure goes up to 32, is that normal ? I asked him and he said its fine. Regarding the messed up plumbing, he said thats best they could do given how the pad was laid out originally. He charged 225 for labor and parts for installing the 3 jandy valves for heater isolation
 
Is it normal for pressure to go from 22 to 32 by switching from pool to spa mode? Is there something i can do to prove that pool company damaged my filter, like opening the filter and showing them the damage and demand a fix or compensation
 
Relax. Running the filter a few hours without DE isn't going to seriously damage brand new grids. I think you're worrying unnecessarily. They're not that delicate. Just have the installer open the filter, clean any debris from the grids, and start it up again, this time with DE.
 
The pentair manual states, do not run filter for more than 3 minutes without adding DE. This is part of thier installation procedure for new filters. In my case the new filter was run for 3 hours without adding DE, it sucked in a lot of dirt since my pool was waiting for a new filter for 3 weeks
 

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