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Thread: Opening questions

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    Opening questions

    Pool was not closed properly. So far since opening I've lowered the pH and TA with muriatic acid (~1.5 gallons in 36 hours), added stabilizer (~2lbs), and dumped in 6 gallons of walmart bleach Friday night.

    Let the pump run on recirculate all night, woke up and did a quick test to see the FC --> still 0.

    Most current test as of Saturday Morning
    FC - 0
    TC - 5
    pH - 7.4
    TA - 100
    CH - 500
    CYA - 30
    water is cloudy grayish green with green on the sides


    Does the bleach really get used up that quickly? The 6 gallons I put in last night was easily double what was recommended for the SLAM math calculator thingy and it's not even registering on the FC. I see that TC is high, which means CC must be way high. It just doesn't seem worth it to keep dumping bleach in like that when I've used the shock granules before with similar pool conditions and seen results in just 24 hours.

    What would y'all recommend be my next course of action? If you think I should stay with the bleach, I'll stay on it.

    I maintained the pool last summer (huge struggle because I wasn't really educated on pool care) and I'm hoping to do a better job at it this year with the help of TFP.

    - 20000 gallon in ground gunnite pool
    - Hayward DE4820 Filter
    - Hayward Super Pump 1.5HP w/ 1.5" piping
    - In-line chlorinator

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Opening questions

    Welcome!

    It looks to me like your CYA decomposed into ammonia over the winter. That would account for no CYA when you opened, unquenchable thirst for bleach, and really high CC after adding.

    By happy coincidence, you've already started the cure process. Keep adding bleach, every 15 minutes or so until you see the FC stick around. Ammonia will eat bleach about as fast as you can pour it in, so you'll know when the ammonia is gone because you'll still have half your FC (or more) left after 15 minutes. Then just stay the course and test every hour or two and replenish bleach then.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    dsmith99's Avatar
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    Re: Opening questions

    Welcome!

    How are you testing? One of two kits, the K-2006C or the TF-100 are recommended, you really can't do this without one of them.

    You have to be careful just dumping stuff in, twice as much as recommended is not a good thing. Chlorine is powerful and can damage your pool or equipment at extreme levels or without proper safeguards. At best, adding way too much all at once is just a waste of chlorine. At worst, some of these seemingly harmless chemicals can react pretty violently when combined improperly.

    There is a reason we use bleach!
    Those tablets or granules you speak fondly of dump loads of stabilizer (CYA) into your water along with the chlorine. Chlorine gets consumed every day, but the stabilizer is in the water to stay, to lower the CYA level requires a water change. You absolutely must have some stabilizer, but excess levels can completely block the effectiveness of the chlorine. People come here hundreds of times per day all summer with the same problem, a green pool and high CYA from a steady diet of tablets and shock. That's how most of us got here!

    Chlorine is chlorine, it does not matter the source. A ppm of chlorine from a bag of shock is no more powerful than one from a gallon of bleach.
    AGP 24' x 54" approx 14000 gal Full sun all day, Hayward 1.5 HP and EC50 D.E. filter
    Stenner 45MPHP10 10 gal/day fixed rate with intermatic ET1125C timer
    Dolphin E10 robotic cleaner, 330 gallon Tiger River Spa, Taylor K-2006C test kit

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    RonsPlc's Avatar
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    Re: Opening questions

    Welcome to TFP zipties

    Follow what Richard has told you. We will get you through this!

    What are you using to test your water with? I would like to see what your CC number is.

    It is nice to see someone from my neck of the woods posting here! (Rome GA is only a 1/2 hr drive from my house!)
    14600 gal Intex 24' Round 52" deep AG Pool (Heavily Modified)
    200lb sand filter w/2 speed 1.5/0.5hp pump
    Stenner 45MHP10 Liquid Chlorine (well... bleach) Injector. Borates added.
    K-2006 test kit w/Speedstir
    Pool School - PoolMath - HIGHLY Recommended Test Kits

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    Re: Opening questions

    Thanks for the advice!

    Right now I'm testing with Clorox test strips, and I'm heading down to Marietta this afternoon to pick up one of the recommended kits.

    I'll keep dumping in the bleach, 1 gal at a time until I see the FC move up.

    As for my inline chlorinator: It's one that holds 3" tabs and has flow level from 1-5. I've got it on 5 right now allowing for the most flow to add extra chlorine while the pump is running and last year I left it around 2 or 3 for daily use. I run the pump&filter at night all night, will that add too much CYA for daily use once I get this thing cleared up? I suppose I'll have to cross that bridge when I get there and just test for it..??

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RonsPlc View Post
    Welcome to TFP zipties

    Follow what Richard has told you. We will get you through this!

    What are you using to test your water with? I would like to see what your CC number is.

    It is nice to see someone from my neck of the woods posting here! (Rome GA is only a 1/2 hr drive from my house!)
    Hey neighbor! Where do you get your supplies from? I have called everyone in Rome and a few places in Centre looking for the Taylor K2006 kit, but haven't had much luck finding one in stock.. I'm going to Leslie's Pool Supplies in Marietta this afternoon to see what they offer. It looks like they have a decent offering of supplies from their website, and they have the Taylor kit online. I'm hoping I can find one (or something good enough to get me started) in the store.
    - 20000 gallon in ground gunnite pool
    - Hayward DE4820 Filter
    - Hayward Super Pump 1.5HP w/ 1.5" piping
    - In-line chlorinator

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Opening questions

    Shut the chlorinator off. As the tablets dissolve, they release FC and CYA. The FC will get used. The CYA stays and rises, which then makes the minimum FC level rise, so then you need more FC, but adding more via pucks also raises CYA which then makes the minimum FC level rise, so then you need more FC, but adding more via pucks also raises CYA which then makes the minimum FC level rise, so then you need more FC, but adding more via pucks also raises CYA which then makes the minimum FC level rise, so then you need more FC.... and on and on and on in a death spiral until your pool is a green mess again and next time around it starts with "Drain 75% of the water"

    Leaving it on will also mess up the overnight loss test you need to pass to call the SLAM complete.

    When it's all done and sparkling, then you can use a few pucks to raise CYA to maintenance levels. or just leave the breathing room so you can use the feeder when you leave town.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Opening questions

    I'm heading down to Marietta this afternoon to pick up one of the recommended kits.
    That won't work. You will be VERY hard-pressed to find anything at a store.

    You can order online and have the TF-100 by Wednesday of the K-2006C a little while longer. If you are going to follow what we teach, you will need one of these.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    RonsPlc's Avatar
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    Re: Opening questions

    OK... after speaking to zipties on the phone (I Love the handle... "It's fixed... I ziptied it"). She has ordered a K2006C kit, and has promised to post a FULL set of numbers once she gets it. She also promised that she was going to turn OFF the feeder that uses the tablets.

    I promised her that we could/would get her pool straightened out so they could enjoy it instead of having to WORK on it all year long. (not to mention the cash savings vs. the pool store)

    I came to this site 3 years ago, and you people have not steered me wrong yet, it is time I started to give some back! I opened my pool last weekend to CLEAR water! All I have had to do is brush, and vacuum to get the stuff that settled to the bottom over the winter out! I am now in the process of getting my numbers in line with where they need to be.

    zipties... stick with us... you won't be disappointed!

    Here are some pictures that I took 10 minutes ago of my pool to show you the results of the process we follow!





    The white bar you see is the OLD thermometer that settled to the bottom of the pool... I just have not fished it out yet.
    Last edited by RonsPlc; 05-06-2017 at 12:38 PM. Reason: added pics.
    14600 gal Intex 24' Round 52" deep AG Pool (Heavily Modified)
    200lb sand filter w/2 speed 1.5/0.5hp pump
    Stenner 45MHP10 Liquid Chlorine (well... bleach) Injector. Borates added.
    K-2006 test kit w/Speedstir
    Pool School - PoolMath - HIGHLY Recommended Test Kits

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Opening questions

    Ron! That is so awesome of you! That is what TFP is all about!

    zippy! You will love your pool once we get it clear. It is going to take quite a bit of bleach so keep at it until you can break the hold of the nasty stuff.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Opening questions

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats View Post
    Ron! That is so awesome of you! That is what TFP is all about!

    zippy! You will love your pool once we get it clear. It is going to take quite a bit of bleach so keep at it until you can break the hold of the nasty stuff.

    Kim
    "by quite a bit" does 10 gallons in 4 hours sound normal?

    TC is 10+
    FC still 0
    - 20000 gallon in ground gunnite pool
    - Hayward DE4820 Filter
    - Hayward Super Pump 1.5HP w/ 1.5" piping
    - In-line chlorinator

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    dsmith99's Avatar
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    Re: Opening questions

    How are you testing? Above you said dip strips.

    You can't do a slam without an FAS/DPD test kit. Dip strips can't even come close to testing high FC, they will usually just bleach out completely. OTO kits are completely off the scale and DPD kits can test higher levels but give such a broad range that it is useless.

    If you add bleach and circulate for 15 minutes, then test and you still don't have a result, your test is not working.
    AGP 24' x 54" approx 14000 gal Full sun all day, Hayward 1.5 HP and EC50 D.E. filter
    Stenner 45MPHP10 10 gal/day fixed rate with intermatic ET1125C timer
    Dolphin E10 robotic cleaner, 330 gallon Tiger River Spa, Taylor K-2006C test kit

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    Re: Opening questions

    This is ridiculous! I'm getting such conflicting information.. two people above said nothing about the test strips bleaching out, they just said keep adding chlorine ever so often and then test. I've been adding all day and night hoping to see FC move, and now you're saying my strips aren't going to work? My super duper necessary kit won't be here until Tuesday. How do so many other people make due and get readings with the cheap kits if y'all make it seem like I can't even drop a speck of chemical without one? I'm so exhausted trying to figure this out.

    Now I've got 20 empty bottles of bleach sitting on the side of my pool following these recommendations and now you're saying I might be damaging my pool and equipment....
    - 20000 gallon in ground gunnite pool
    - Hayward DE4820 Filter
    - Hayward Super Pump 1.5HP w/ 1.5" piping
    - In-line chlorinator

  13. Back To Top    #13
    jjwalker's Avatar
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    Re: Opening questions

    if your testing with Clorox test strips it's pointless .... they are highly inaccurate. might as well be measuring wind speed with a frying pan.

    wait til your test kit comes in and you'll know exactly what your FC number is and the fine folks here will guide you to the promised land !
    18x36 vinyl / sport pool 5.5' deep / 1.5hp Tri-Star 2spd / Hayward c3030 325 sqft cartridge / ~15k gal / TF100

  14. Back To Top    #14

    RonsPlc's Avatar
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    Re: Opening questions

    Relax... Take a breath.

    Your pool is a swamp right now, so whatever is in there will consume the chlorine you have put in... and MORE!
    Trust me... you are killing whatever is in there, and your pool WILL come clear as long as you follow our process. We want to do it in a manner that won't bleach out your liner, or harm your equipment.
    Keep your empty bleach bottles (at least 10 of them)... I get 12.5% bleach to the tune of 55 gallons at a time... I can give you some of it for what it cost me. So you are covered (since you live close).
    We DO need a full set of numbers once you get you test kit (Tuesday).

    Again, relax... we got your back.

    BTW... did I mention that we LOVE pictures!
    Take one now... of the swamp.
    Then take one EVERY day of the process (at the same time of day from the same angle if you can).
    Post them here
    You will be surprised at the results!
    14600 gal Intex 24' Round 52" deep AG Pool (Heavily Modified)
    200lb sand filter w/2 speed 1.5/0.5hp pump
    Stenner 45MHP10 Liquid Chlorine (well... bleach) Injector. Borates added.
    K-2006 test kit w/Speedstir
    Pool School - PoolMath - HIGHLY Recommended Test Kits

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    dsmith99's Avatar
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    Re: Opening questions

    Sorry for the frustration zip,

    NOBODY on this forum will advocate test strips or free pool store testing!

    Some of these folks answer hundreds of questions each day and some small details like your testing with dip strips might get glossed over unless you mention it in every post. It's very hard to read through an entire thread every single time, and have every piece of info needed to make recommendations, that's why all details need to be placed in the signature. The advice is free, offered by folks answering questions for free because they wish to help and most have been where you are at one time.

    The standard answer in this situation is add a gallon of bleach each day until your test kit arrives, that will help keep things from getting worse.
    AGP 24' x 54" approx 14000 gal Full sun all day, Hayward 1.5 HP and EC50 D.E. filter
    Stenner 45MPHP10 10 gal/day fixed rate with intermatic ET1125C timer
    Dolphin E10 robotic cleaner, 330 gallon Tiger River Spa, Taylor K-2006C test kit

  16. Back To Top    #16

    RonsPlc's Avatar
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    Re: Opening questions

    here is another clip from somebody else that may give you some hope!

    14 years of pool stores and failure... - Page 5

    tell me what you think?
    14600 gal Intex 24' Round 52" deep AG Pool (Heavily Modified)
    200lb sand filter w/2 speed 1.5/0.5hp pump
    Stenner 45MHP10 Liquid Chlorine (well... bleach) Injector. Borates added.
    K-2006 test kit w/Speedstir
    Pool School - PoolMath - HIGHLY Recommended Test Kits

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Opening questions

    I would also like to add to DSmith99's insightful post, that in your big size of a pool, 1 gallon of bleach added at a time is like spitting in the wind. It will kill some, but far from what you will need.

    Big pools take more bleach than small pools to get the same reaction.

    Guess-Strips are laughable for their accuracy. And during a SLAM process you need accuracy because if you put in too little FC, you've just wasted your money as the algae can reproduce faster than the lesser-quantity-than-needed bleach can stick around. Gotta work with hard core numbers.

    I prefer the TF-100, but the Taylor 2006 works. The problem with the 2006 is it comes with smaller bottles of reagents so you should consider calling Rebecca at TFTestkits.net (phone number on website) and order the reagents you'll need to continue the SLAM. (I don't know the item #s to tell you, she'll know)

    One more thing- do you mean you had your pump on recirculate (which bypasses the filter) or on the filter setting? You need it to go thru the filter so that it too can be exposed to chlorine, and it will work as a filter to help trap all the schmutz. Backwash as needed.
    Maddie
    Maddie :) 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Skippy's Pool Cooler --> Skippy's New Fountain Our Build --> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: Opening questions

    I was running on recirc for a few days, now I've got it going through the filter. It's hitting the max pressure on the dial in just a couple hours.

    I cleaned the filter completely before opening the pool (opened and washed off the grids) and added 4lbs of DE as soon as I turned it on to filter yesterday. After it running for a little bit I noticed the pressure dial was up at the red arrow around 20, I backwashed and added another 2 lbs of DE and running it this morning, its back up in the red. I'm guessing it's normal to backwash frequently when it's cleaning up the crud?

    Am I adding enough DE? The hayward instruction books says add like 6-8lbs, but other places I've read say add 2, so I'm meeting in the middle around 4 and adding an extra 2 after backwashing. Does this sound ok?

    Also not sure if I'm doing the backwash correctly because last year after backwashing the pressure kept jumping up quickly, even with a clean pool, so I ended up taking it apart and washing the grids after almost every backwash just to keep the pressure down. That jobs is a PITA!
    When I backwash I let it go for a few minutes until I see the sight glass stay clear then I turn the system off and let it settle, then turn it on and backwash again for a few more minutes. I end up seeing gross stuff in the sight glass for the first minute or so then it clears up and I turn it back off and resume filtering like normal. Does this sound ok or is there something I'm doing wrong? I backwashed this morning, and it looks like I'm going to have to do it again this afternoon.

    This is how it sits right now
    IMG_2022.jpg

    Current Pressure after backwashing about 2 hours ago
    IMG_2026-1.jpg

    This is the sight glass I look at when backwashing


    Current setup. In-line chlorinator is off for the time being
    - 20000 gallon in ground gunnite pool
    - Hayward DE4820 Filter
    - Hayward Super Pump 1.5HP w/ 1.5" piping
    - In-line chlorinator

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Opening questions

    Darn, wish I could advise you better on DE filters but I don't know enough about them to say in your situation. I hope someone else will come along who can tell you more.

    That's one green pool for sure

    Maddie
    Maddie :) 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Skippy's Pool Cooler --> Skippy's New Fountain Our Build --> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: Opening questions

    My backwash process (Pentair Nautilus) happens when my pressure gauge hits the backwash mark
    Pump Off
    MultiPort Valve to Backwash
    Pump On
    Backwash until sightglass is pretty much not clouded
    Pump Off
    Multiport valve to Rinse
    Pump On -- this for about 30sec to a Min
    Pump Off
    Multiport back To backwash
    Pump On
    Again--watch the sight glass. (I've discovered that the rinse cycle will generally loosen up places it is 'stuck')

    Do the rinse to backwash process until your rinse is pretty much 'just pool without filter contaminant -- sometimes for me this is one or two times, others it's 5 or 6 . . . that can vary

    After your "no contaminant rinse" -- then you need to do a filter re-charge

    Your DE WILL clog up MUCH faster when filtering out algae . . .

    Your ORIGINAL startup (or if you break it down and do the PITA cleaning) is generally the ONLY time you use a full charge of DE and then use however much Hayward is saying to use. This (from all my reading here, and everything else) is paramount.

    After normal backwashing you use about 80# of the Hayward amount because you won't generally 'ever' rinse out "all" of the original charge. If you use the full charge everytime, you'll find that your filter clogs much much faster.

    One last, I shifted from DE to a cellulose fiber product (FiberClear) and have been REALLY happy with the change. It is much easier to work with and my sources--cheaper.

    Also, with as much algae as your pictures show . . . plan on daily backwashing until you get to clear . . .

    I hope this helps
    Richard
    InGround,30x50, 50,000G, PVC on Concrete
    Tandem Filtration 2 x Hayward 2HP Superpump
    1 x Hayward S270T -- Fiber Clear Enhanced 1 x Pentair NSF72 DE -- Fiber Clear Media Used
    Lars Jandy XL3 Oil Fired Heater 1 x Hayward Booster Pump on Home-Grown Solar Heater (which does the job)

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