Carlos, glad its at least more trouble free and cheaper, though of course I wish we could someday determine the source so you could get it dialed down 
Recurring Metal Stains... worse than ever...
- Thread starter carlos31820
- Start date
- May 23, 2015
- 24,486
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Carlos, glad its at least more trouble free and cheaper, though of course I wish we could someday determine the source so you could get it dialed down
5 quarts per month @ $14/qt = $70/month
That's pretty steep for extra chemicals but, given how bad your liner gets, I don't see a short term solution that would be any cheaper.
I wonder if any of these scale remover manufacturers use PBTC (2-Phosphonobutane -1,2,4-Tricarboxylic Acid) in their formulations? The technical literature around PBTC shows it to be much more immune to chlorine oxidation and it is a better scale inhibitor because it is fully dissociated at pool pH values, meaning it is capable of achieving a -4 charge, as opposed to HEDP which only will be doubly negative charge, and thus PBTC can "capture" more +2 valence metal ions.
I have not found any products that explicitly use it though....
See this PDF link (download) for a technical paper on PBTC - https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0ahUKEwiIyZ2zhubUAhUjHGMKHeX_DTAQFghVMAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdownloads.hindawi.com%2Fjournals%2Fbca%2F2005%2F546865.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHSYmlcLfnRFa-zTByA-OB_VxqAKw
Holding up well here at 16 oz per week - might get by with less - skipped it this weekend and doing ok - so just dialing in - but doing well!! Thanks again Carlos for the input!!
Just updating that the pool remains stain free by simply using regular doses of Proteam Metal Magic. Here is what the pool looked like this evening.
After reading this and suffering stains coming back I decided to give metal magic a try at a dose of 2 qts for 19k gal in vinyl pool. 36 hours in the darker stains have noticibly lightened and the lighter ones have disappeared. Lights and returns are bright white again. fC dropped a bit and PH dropped to below 7 so I adjusted it back to 7.6 and it's holding steady.
Prior to this I had done 2 AA treatments and used quite a bit jacks purple stuff only to have stains return once ph and FC were balanced.
So far I think Proteam Metal Magic is a winner.
Prior to this I had done 2 AA treatments and used quite a bit jacks purple stuff only to have stains return once ph and FC were balanced.
So far I think Proteam Metal Magic is a winner.
Unfortunately, higher than I hoped. I'm using around a quart per week. But I still prefer this over full blown AA treatments.
n240sxguy
Well-known member
Did you add borates? It's been a little while since I read through the whole thread, and I can't remember. I've been using the hth metal and stain remover from Walmart, and after I added borates I have dramatically longer periods between doses. Before I would have to add a quart about every week to keep it looking nice. Now I just barely start seeing any stains return after two weeks.
- Jun 14, 2017
- 64
- Pool Size
- 17000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Carlos et al other metal stain sufferers...just checking in to say that after my initial treatment with MM on 6/27, my stains are starting to slightly creep back (really have to look for them) but nonetheless are returning. I believe I will be able to manage with basically the recommended dosage on the bottle to keep them at bay, but we will see how that works moving forward.
Btw, pool is looking great Carlos...hope yours is a little cooler than my "hot tub" right now.
Btw, pool is looking great Carlos...hope yours is a little cooler than my "hot tub" right now.
Good to hear from you, neighbor... I'm keeping my stains away using only MM but it takes a LOT of it (about a quart per week). It's still looking pretty good though.
About the heat, my pool is staying around 85 degrees since I have a lot of trees that shade the pool after around 3pm.
Here's a shot I just took from my Nest security cam.
n240sxguy
Well-known member
I think that is the case as far as the ph in the cell itself. My TA started at 50 this year, and is just now up to 70 now that I've had to add a little water here and there. I have not added a drop of acid this year. I started the season at 7.3ph, my cya additions dropped it to 7.2, and now it has crept back up to 7.3 again. It took three years of tfp, but my ph has been rock solid. In the cell, who knows what happens or how high the ph goes. I also know that I did a partial slam earlier this year, and the stains immediately came back when the FC went up. I did one 3-4 weeks ago, and did not see the same effect with the borates in the water.
Ive got my own tiny thread entitled "my iron adventures"..but wanted to say that the metal magic just floored me with its results over the weekend. This year I got about 3 weeks out of my vitamin C and jacks pink stuff treatment. Saturday night I added 2.5 qts of the magic to my 24000 gallon pool and by Sunday night/Monday morning I was blown away.
This has been a very informative thread. Thanks Swampwoman.
This has been a very informative thread. Thanks Swampwoman.
Quick update to say that the Metal Magic regimen is continuing to work. I'm still using about a quart per week.
Holding very steady here - even with infrequent additions of Metal Magic - so far so good!
Hello Carlos,
I have the same problem as you and you seem the pro in metal staining removal! What's your ''regimen'' to keep the pool stain free?
I have the same problem as you and you seem the pro in metal staining removal! What's your ''regimen'' to keep the pool stain free?
Well, there's not much to the current regimen other than frequent doses of ProTeam Metal Magic. I'm having to use about a quart per week. There are several others on this thread and forum that are successfully keeping their metal staining under control using much lower amounts of Metal Magic.
As you have probably seen me mention before, the thing that I prefer about ONLY using Metal Magic is that it doesn't deplete chlorine like Ascorbic Acid does. It is also a cheaper alternative for me. Before, I was having to use Ascorbic Acid or GLB Stain Magnet to lift the stains, then I'd also have to add a sequestrant like Jack's Purple stuff at a cost of anywhere between $45-70 per treatment only to see the stains slowly return in about 7-10 days later.
Doing Ascorbic Acid treatments in the middle of the hot summer here in the south (Georgia) is a risky endeavor since the AA depletes all the chlorine and puts a really high chlorine demand on the pool immediately following the treatment. AA also seems to cause water cloudiness problems in my pool. For my pool, AA treatments would be a 3-4 day ordeal of frequent chlorine testing/dosing as well as 24-hour pool filter runs (for the cloudiness).
With Metal Magic, I only experienced cloudiness on my very first treatment. In hindsight, I think I just over-dosed my pool as I added 4 quarts of Metal Magic on that first treatment. I think 2 quarts would have probably done the trick.
So now, all I do is add Metal Magic, I leave the chlorine at my regular levels and MM does not seem to affect the chlorine level. The only thing I have to keep an eye on is the pH. Since MM is acidic, my pH tends to stay lower than it has in the past so every couple weeks, I have to adjust the pH up by adding Borax.
I wish I did NOT have to use anything at all but it is what it is. My pool has high amounts of metals so I have to deal with it. At least, I have found a way to control the stains with a method that isn't as disruptive as AA treatments.
Thanks Carlos,
I read all your thread on stain removal and it saved me a lot of hassle. I was going to bypass the heater and switch to chlorine only. Thanks for sharing!
I read all your thread on stain removal and it saved me a lot of hassle. I was going to bypass the heater and switch to chlorine only. Thanks for sharing!
Hello TFP friends. Just checking in to say that I’m still having success with using a weekly regimen of Metal Magic to keep my staining at bay.
Last weekend, however, I had to bump up the pH level to 7.2 in order to run my pool heater. My pool heater is completely bypassed from the flow of water unless I’m using it. Long story short, I increased the pH and much to my dismay, the staining came back full force.
Luckily, about a day after adding two bottles of Metal Magic, the stains were slowly lifted.
Photos after last weekend:
Photo a day after adding Metal Magic:
Last weekend, however, I had to bump up the pH level to 7.2 in order to run my pool heater. My pool heater is completely bypassed from the flow of water unless I’m using it. Long story short, I increased the pH and much to my dismay, the staining came back full force.
Luckily, about a day after adding two bottles of Metal Magic, the stains were slowly lifted.
Photos after last weekend:
Photo a day after adding Metal Magic: