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Thread: walls and floor covered in ???

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    walls and floor covered in ???

    new member here, I thank you all in advance for any help you can give me. I had a new gunite 31,000 salt pool installed last year with colored plaster. upon opening this year, when I felt the bottom on one of the steps, it felt like sandpaper. I rubbed it and some clearish crystals rubbed off but most of it is stuck. the rest of the pool is the same way. I have been running an automatic cleaner which has been filling its bag with this stuff in about an hour. I have filled about 6 bags so far. I am wondering if this stuff will disintegrate once my chemistry is back in check or if I will have to actually scrub this stuff off. last year I was running these numbers:

    ph 7.8-8 ...was adding acid every 2 days
    ta 110-120
    ch 330
    cya 85
    chlorine 3-4

    upon opening this year ph was off the scale. have since adding 2 gallons and its at 8 now. im adding more tonight
    ta was 140, then 120, now 92. (went down with the acid) first 2 tests I did myself, 3rd was a pool store. i would bet if i did it myself, it wouldn't be 92 and would be around 100.
    cya 76
    ch: i came up with 275, store came up with 220. if iit matters, 1 gallon of acid was added in between.
    salt: 2600, added 1 bag. then 2800, added another. should be at 3000 now.

    thanks again
    anthonyIMG_1984.jpg

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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: walls and floor covered in ???

    Welcome Ant!

    Just curious if you ever used dry acid in this pool much. I don't know what it is, but I would like to see what it does if you set some aside, and put a few drops of Muriatic Acid on it.

    Do you have your own Test kit, and what kind if so please?
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    Re: walls and floor covered in ???

    it turns into a white powder when dry. i have only ever used 30% muriatic acid and im using a taylor kit. k-2005 i think. i haven't poured acid on it but i did drop some of the acid demand agent on it (i think its made up of acid). it didn't do anything to it.
    stupid question: how do i carefully pour a few drops from a gallon container? that's why i haven't done it yet. can i put this stuff in a glass and pour the acid into it? i am just unsure how strong that stuff is and don't know what it eats and what it doesn't.


    thanks for the reply.

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    Re: walls and floor covered in ???

    Sure. Put some in a glass, and barely tip the bottle enough to get a little drip(s) into the glass. If you're not comfortable doing this you don't have too. It would be nice to know, and perhaps very helpful trying to narrow it down though.

    Whatever it is, your high pH seems to have precipitated it, but its an absolute guess to say whether or not, or how well it will dissolve and go back into solution with lowered pH. Certainly seems likely that it will happen again under similar conditions. I know this isn't much help, so sorry about that. Are you sure that no one else, maybe a pool service or anyone else that could have added anything to this pool? Just trying to cover all possibilities.

    It is likely to re dissolve, with low pH like 7.0-7.2 but its possible an acid wash and or scraping it off will be required to clean it up. I just don't know, nor do I like making promises I can't back up.
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    Re: walls and floor covered in ???

    im coming to the conclusion that this is scale. here are a couple pics. I could only get good photos at night with the light on and only the walls. I wasn't able to get a good photo of the bottom, which is much worse than the walls. a bristle brush does nothing but it come off fairly easy with a pumice stone. so worse case scenario I will be doing the pool by hand with some goggles. I just purchased a wire brush, Im hoping that does it. and I came up with an invention through this ordeal...a pumice stone brush attachment that connects to a pole, I could really use one on those right now badly. I want to avoid this next year. from what im researching this would be the calcium that was in the pool that crystalized when the ph went through the roof over the winter. I am thinking of keeping the hardness lower this year. I was keeping it at 330 last year, im thinking 250ish this year. would that be advisable? thanks again.


    IMG_1992.jpg IMG_1991.jpg

    - - - Updated - - -

    ps, 1st pic is upside down. im standing on the edge pointing straight down

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    Re: walls and floor covered in ???

    Lowering CH is a good idea but your pool is scaling because you have not controlled pH. pH is the single most important contributor to scale.

    This forum is about accurate testing and understanding the results of your tests. I would suggest these steps.....

    1. Read and understand the ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry in Pool School.

    2. The K-2005 is not the right kit. (and I'll bet yours has expired) You need to purchase a K-2006C or, better yet, a TF-100 from TFTeskits.net.

    3. Post a complete set of test results immediately after you get your kit.

    Religiously plan on monitoring your pH and make sure it stays below 7.5 or so. There is a way (slow) to "dissolve" that scaling but do these steps first and then we'll work on clearing up your pool.
    Dave S.
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    Re: walls and floor covered in ???

    thank you. I do have the k-2005 kit, which is identical to a k-2006 with the exception of the different chlorine reagent. however, I did purchase last august I think the separate chlorine kit that has the powder, which I do use...i forget the terminology. I also purchased the separate salt kit. nothing should be expired as I actually test pretty much every day and have bought separate single reagents 3 or 4 times last summer to refill kit. original kit was purchased july of last year and is kept in house and not outside. with that out of the way...
    I fought my ph all last year and I was told by pool builder not to add more than 1/2 gallon every other day, which I held to. pool is 31,000 gallons. this year I have thrown that advice to the wind. pool was opened Monday and I have added just short of 3 gallons of acid. last add was last night at 5 pm which was about 3 quarts. prior to that I came up with a reading of 8, pool store had 8.2. this morning I got a reading of 7.6. I will test later today as I can count on one hand how many times it was actually under 7.8.

    thanks for replying, much appreciated.

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    Re: walls and floor covered in ???

    OK. Your other posts did not indicate the testing you have been doing.

    Now, your job is simpler.....keep your pH in the 7's ALWAYS and Forever.

    If you want to dissolve that scale, CAREFULLY lower your pH down to 7.0 and keep it there by testing and adding acid daily. It may take a long toime or a very short time, but I think the scale will go away. Once done, return your pH to around 7.5 and continue to monitor.

    Your PB was in error to give you that advice.
    Dave S.
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    Re: walls and floor covered in ???

    i was told i would be fighting ph all last year as the pool was new. im hoping this year i can get it stabilized as i will run into same problem next spring if i dont.

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    Re: walls and floor covered in ???

    Some of us, most in fact just have to fight pH forever. It's covered now, but it's the pH that did this. My pool has been over 700 CH for two summers, now closer to 900. Never had an indication of scale, but I'm pretty tight on my water management. Point being, you can manage easily with good pH control, I promise.
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    Re: walls and floor covered in ???

    Lower your TA down to 60 or so and the will help to slow pH rise. Also, don't run waterfalls, bubblers or other water features that aeration the water. Brushing with a stainless steel brush while the Ph is low will help to remove it. S L O W L Y You can also wet sand any rough spots to smooth NY rough spots, with 80 or 100 grit wet/dry sandpaper.
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    Re: walls and floor covered in ???

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Lower your TA down to 60 or so and the will help to slow pH rise. Also, don't run waterfalls, bubblers or other water features that aeration the water. Brushing with a stainless steel brush while the Ph is low will help to remove it. S L O W L Y You can also wet sand any rough spots to smooth NY rough spots, with 80 or 100 grit wet/dry sandpaper.
    thanks. the pumice stone works like a charm though so i will stick to that if it comes down to it as its less abrasive than sandpaper. im hoping the iwre brush does it though. i will let the ta come down in the meantime until this is resolved.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: walls and floor covered in ???

    You can use a finer grit sandpaper if you want. The only issue with the pumice stone is how much pumice it leaves behind.

    More here on how to actively lower TA, Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity
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    Re: walls and floor covered in ???

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    You can use a finer grit sandpaper if you want. The only issue with the pumice stone is how much pumice it leaves behind.

    More here on how to actively lower TA, Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity
    good point.

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    Re: walls and floor covered in ???

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    You can use a finer grit sandpaper if you want. The only issue with the pumice stone is how much pumice it leaves behind.

    More here on how to actively lower TA, Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity
    good read, never though of using my spa as a tool.

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    Re: walls and floor covered in ???

    just spoke to warranty, even though I did everything they told me to do last year, im not covered....shocker.

    she did tell me that this stuff will come off easier the warmer the water is. I though I read the other day the opposite. can anyone confirm?

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: walls and floor covered in ???

    Scale in a pool is never covered by warranty. Scale is always caused by improperly maintained water chemistry.

    Water temp doesn't matter. It is all about pH, TA and CH. More here, Pool School - Calcium Scaling
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    Re: walls and floor covered in ???

    here is the latest update...
    ph was 7.8 last night at 5pm. I added 1 gallon of acid and retested after 1 hour, pump was running and I was brushing it like crazy during the hour. it came down to 7.2. the encouraging news is ch went up to 330 from 275 so im thinking its starting to dissolve. however, I did run out of a reagent mid test, so I will confirm that later today with a new test. I brushed it late last night with the light on while I could see the buildup on the floor better. there was a lot of dust coming off. ph this morning was still 7.2 (there was some drizzling rain through the night), ta is 95ish. I expected it to lower with all the acid but its still there.

    so my questions are:

    am I right assuming since the ch is going up that this stuff is dissolving?

    since that is going up, could that be contributing to the ta not moving much?


    and might that dust coming off be the scale?

    thanks everyone so much

    my old pool tech support people are fired and yous are hired

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: walls and floor covered in ???

    LOL!! Nice.

    Yes, CH going up is most likely scale dissolving. I'm not sure if dissolving scale contributes to TA, probably yes. A gallon of 31.45% MA will lower TA by about 30 in a 15k gal pool. How many gallons is yours? Did you use full strength acid?

    So, if you are serious about brushing and dissolving the scale then the best way to do it is to lower your CSI down to -0.8 or -0.9. Enter all your test results into PoolMath. ALL, most things make a contribution to CSI, no blanks. PoolMath will give you the CSI number. Lower pH and TA to lower the CSI. Brush a lot, train your kids or rent some!

    Here is the link again to read in case you didn't, Pool School - Calcium Scaling

    And this about TA
    Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity

    Add your pool info to your sig so we can better help you. More here on what to put in it and how to do it, Pool School - Read This BEFORE You Post
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    Re: walls and floor covered in ???

    im using the 31% acid. im gonna try to work on the csi. I did enter all info into calculator except borates. ill need to get a tester for that. without that entered im coming up with -0.64 csi. pool is 31,000 gallon gunite with plaster.
    thanks again

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