New Pool + Cabana + Putting Green - Lucas, TX

[IXFE]

Hey everybody! I've been lurking for several months, researching and trying my best to learn from yall's collective wisdom. I recently relocated to North Dallas with my wife and four children (17, 15, 13, 11). Big change for our family coming from Portland, OR. We are originally from SoCal and I grew up with a pool. My wife and I also had a small, basic pool in our first home in Orange County, CA where I served as my own pool man. As you can imagine, my teenage kids had reservations about this move. Two of the reasons they were on board include SUNSHINE and SWIMMING POOL!

Let me tell you about our new yard so you know what canvas we have to work with. The home is sitting on 18,000 sq. ft. lot. The back yard is 90' wide x 84' deep and surrounded by wrought iron fencing which provides ZERO privacy. There is a 20' drainage easement along the back fence that we cannot build any structures one (bummer). The other thing about the lot is that we have a GREAT view out the right side of the yard, but there's the side of a house visible on the left side of the yard. I wasn't thrilled about having a house so close to our back fence, but my wife LOVES the house and I figured when we built a pool we could block the view of that house with some sort of structure or landscaping. The idea is to draw people's eye to the right side of the yard.

Here are some pics so you know what I'm talking about.



Here is the view from the balcony looking STRAIGHT out...

<img src="https://i.imgur.com/zNy14iw.jpg">

Here is the view looking to the LEFT...


Here is the view looking to the RIGHT...


I also took a few pics from inside the house at the lower level...

STRAIGHT


LEFT


RIGHT

 

[IXFE]

As we have older kids, we know we want a BIG pool that has a true deep end. Lots of ways to measure pools, but we are thinking at least 700 sq. ft. / 100'+ perimeter / 30,000 gallons / 40' long / 25' wide, etc. You get the idea. We are also learning that creating shade is important for HOT Texas summer days.

As I mentioned before, we also want to cover/diffuse the view of the house on the left with either a structure or landscaping. If it's a structure it doesn't need to have anything fancy like an outdoor kitchen or fireplace as we already have that on the covered back patio.

We have talked to FOUR different pool builders... I'm told there are 400 pool builders in Dallas!

Before I got any farther, what's the protocol around here for discussing builders by name, posting designs, and quoting prices?

 

[kimkats]

Hi! This is going to be a fun one! I am going to do this in parts.

I prefer no builders names at the beginning. I hope nothing goes wrong but........... We have had to close or even delete threads where there were problems when the PB (pool builder) found the thread and took offence to his name being shared in a negative light. You ARE welcome to share their name in PM.

Kim

Please DO share designs and prices! That is where we can really help you and help others that read your thread in the future.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Welcome to TFP... A Great resource for all your pool questions...

Looks like a great yard and a great place for a pool.

The only thing you can't do by name is any negative remarks.

Please keep us up to date and ask plenty of questions.

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.

 

[kimkats]

Back and ready to help you spend your money!

I LOVE that back area! I would have bought the house for that alone! What I can see of the house I see why your wife likes it so!

-4 builders-good start! Have you seen or talked to any of their past builds? THAT will give you the best info you can get about each one-good and bad.

Post up the designs. Label them A, B, C, D. Make sure to include the equipment list so we can look that over.

Can you put up a privacy fence?

-the back fence area-you say there is a drainage easement that you cannot build anything on. Can you plant there?

Are you thinking freeform or classic rectangle for the pool?

Kim

 

[IXFE]

Thanks, everybody for the guidance. I'll just leave the PB's names out completely and refer to themby number (in the order they provided designs).

Yeah, the house is pretty amazing. It has those back doors that that slide open so the entire wall just disappears and opens up to the outdoor living area. That was a big selling point. We usually only see doors like that in homes at much higher price points.

I'm kinda surprised that they used wrought iron fences everywhere. Back home we're used to wood or block fences that offer up much more privacy.

I need to check with HOA about privacy fence. I kinda doubt they will allow it. But here is what PB#1 suggested (along with landscaping along the fence line)

 

[IXFE]

Okay, ready for some designs?

So far I have met with all four PB's at the house, but only have designs from PB#1 in my possession. We met with PB#2 yesterday at his office/showroom and saw his designs, but he has not sent them to me yet (still making changes we asked for).

Here is the original design provided by PB#1. It blew us away. He went way above and beyond. After spending 45 minutes talking to us and walking around the yard, he went to his car, grabbed a chair, and sat down in the yard for an hour just quietly thinking and taking notes (after we left). We were really impressed by how much effort and thought he's put into this design.

Side note... I'm sure many of you have been through this, but there's something exciting about seeing these renderings revealed and thinking, "This could be ours!" It's like Christmas morning just seeing the plans!

PB#1 produced his first design before knowing about the 20' easement. And we had specifically asked for the pool to be set back. Our thinking was that with the pool up close to the house we'd likely never make use of the yard of the behind the pool (I’d like to discuss this with folks here later after I show you PB#2’s design).

Here's what PB#1 came up with. The pool is 39.5 x 34 x 27 with a depth of 4 to 8.5, a perimeter of 106’, 707 sq ft, and 31,200 gallons. It is salt water + ozone with mini pebble plaster and includes two skimmers, 4 LED lights (3 pool + 1 spa) all Hayward equipment (variable speed pump, heater, cartridge filter, Omnilogic control, etc.) and a Polaris pressure washer. The design includes 21’ long stone waterfall with booster pump, 1650 sq. ft. of salt finish concrete (to match the house patio), a 22 x 22 cabana with electricity and 6’ brick/stone wall, 16 x 16 arbor with electricity, wood burning fire pit, and a 300 sq ft putting green. None of the landscaping you see is included. The quote was $140K which as you might imagine made my eyelids peel back! I don't know what we expected. I guess I've heard people say a pool/spa costs $60K-$80K. So I knew we'd be more expensive than that, but I was thinking $100K would make all my dreams come true. I'm trying not to panic as this is just the first bid.

Note: I have a second design from PB#2 that adjusts for the 20’ easement and lowers my cost a bit, but I wanted you to see his first design for reference.

 

[Texas Dobie]

Welcome to Texas and TFP. This will be a fun build to watch.

Thanks, R

 

[Jimrahbe]

In my mind, a couple of things stand out..

The good... A Variable Speed pump is a must have.. A saltwater pool is an outstanding choice.

The bad... An ozone system is really not something that will help with pool sanitation and just a waste of your money. Having a pressure cleaner is a little like having an old black rotary-dial phone, technology wise. It makes you have to have two pumps, and causes you to have to run your VS pump at high speeds, negating the whole energy saving purpose of have a VS pump to begin with. Suggest you go with a robot.

Curious where the equipment pad will be??

I'd love to have a putting green, but based upon the size of my yard, the longest putt would be less than three feet...

Thanks again,

Jim R.

 

[IXFE]

Definitely agree with the robot suggestion; I've read a bunch about it on this forum. PB#1 is willing to make that change. We haven't discussed ozone with PB#1. I only told him I wanted a salt water pool. I only noticed the addition of the ozone system as I reviewed the price sheet when I made that last post.

On that subject, when we were talking to PB#2 yesterday he also mentioned the use of ozone in conjunction with a salt system, but he said it was unecessary and eliminating it would save me $700.

I know this forum is big on salt water pools and I get why ozone isn't sufficient on its own, but are you guys saying there's zero benefit to ozone when coupled with salt?

 

[Jimrahbe]

I know this forum is big on salt water pools and I get why ozone isn't sufficient on its own, but are you guys saying there's zero benefit to ozone when coupled with salt?

The only thing that you need to sanitize your pool is chlorine. And just so that we are both on the same page, a Saltwater pool is a chlorine pool. The salt in the pool water is converted to chlorine by passing it through an electrical charge. The salt is then returned to the pool where it gets used, over and over again.

Oh.. we also highly recommend that your Salt Water Chlorine Generator (SWCG) be 2 x the size of your pool. So make absolutely sure that the SWCG that they provide you is rated at 60K gallons.

You can use the search box in the upper right side of this screen and search on "Ozone" and see a ton of comments..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[pooldv]

Yes, there is 0 benefit to ozone in an outdoor pool. It can be beneficial in a hot tub by oxidizing bather waste without the need for higher chlorine levels while bathing. But, ozone leaves no residual sanitizer in the pool. It only sanitizes what goes through it. So, maintaining chlorine level is required anyways the ozone isn't doing anything that the chlorine isn't already doing.

Reber Pools is good choice for the North Dallas area.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Thinking ahead on robots, make sure they add an electrical outlet as close as code will allow to the middle of your pool length. Most robots only have a 50' to 60' cable, so a large pool will use most of that cable.

Jim R.

 

[kimkats]

I SO hear you on the seeing it all draw out and thinking "This will be at MY home!" WOWER! That is one pretty design!

One thing I see is the raised spa is right in the sight line to the pool from the house. I know your kids are older but it might be better on the other side of the tanning shelf.

Some questions to help me help you with the work up.

Do you have a dog?

Do you think the kids would want to play volley ball in the pool?

Do the kids like to play catch (football, baseball, etc.) outside?

Did this PB price it out so the pool was one price and the shade areas are another?

Kim

 

[IXFE]

Great comments so far...

Ozone is OFF the list. I won't mention it again! Also, SWCG that is 2x the size is now on my list.

Thanks for the recommendation about the power outlet. These are the sorts of tips I'm keen to learn from y'all. I'm adding that to my list.

Reber Pools is indeed one of the four. I won't tell you which one. Hehe.

Yes, we have a 9 year old Golden Retriever. He's 80 lbs. Looks just like the dog in PB#1's rendering.

Unlikely to play volleyball in the pool; however, my sons would like a basketball hoop around the pool. I haven't mentioned it as a requirement to the PB's because I assume there are portable options. Catch in the yard is definitely something we want to facilitate as both boys play baseball. I recognize the design above isn't great for that.

Point taken on spa location. We didn't like it either. PB#1 was thinking it was a closer walk from the house on a cold night. We still asked him to move it exactly as you suggested kimkats. Wanna see how that turned out...?

 

[bmoreswim]

The space behind our pool is used a fair amount as it is large enough for some football, whiffle ball or pitching. Your 20' deep by 90' wide area is perfect for a pitching/catching baseball area. If you have a pitcher(s) then maybe design in a mound on one side then some Astro turf for the catcher's area.

If you can put a solid wall on the back side of that cabana, you will have some great privacy from the house area. A hedge of 3' tall or so after the pool before the pitching lane would give nice in pool privacy.

 

[IXFE]

The space behind our pool is used a fair amount as it is large enough for some football, whiffle ball or pitching. Your 20' deep by 90' wide area is perfect for a pitching/catching baseball area. If you have a pitcher(s) then maybe design in a mound on one side then some Astro turf for the catcher's area.

If you can put a solid wall on the back side of that cabana, you will have some great privacy from the house area. A hedge of 3' tall or so after the pool before the pitching lane would give nice in pool privacy.

I like your idea about a pitching/catching area. Both my boys are pitchers (15 & 13).

Initially I asked for a solid back wall on the cabana, but we struggled with what to used that wall for. Usually you see a solid back wall when there's a kitchen or fireplace, like this one...



but we don't need any of that out there as we already have both near the house. I struggle with the idea of just a blank wall there, but I asked for it anyway. PB#1 didn't really listen on that. Instead he put the 6' wall in that you see below and extended it out beyond the cabana.



He thought this + magnolia trees was a better buffer against the house behind us on the left. When I pushed him for a full wall, he said it would be cost prohibitive due to the deeper footer, etc. As it is, he's charging us $7,500 for the wall you see. Anyway, I finally just let it go because my wife liked the short wall. Ultimately I asked him to just remove it altogether (cost cutting) and figured we'd use something like this...

 

[pooldv]

We deleted the spa from our pool which saved $25k or so. We spent 5500 bucks on a standalone hot tub and out it by the back door on a covered screen porch. More comfortable, always hot, covered, cheaper to operate, close to the door. There are pics in the link in my sig.

We also bought the Doheny's Discovery robot. It works a LOT better than the Pentair Legend II pressure cleaner. You can delete the cleaner booster pump and plumbing also. More here, First Robotic Cleaner, Doheny's Discovery

 

[bmoreswim]

That's my future robot. I also have that roll down screen you showed in the last picture. If you look in my build thread there is a picture of it in the last page or two.

I'd think you could do a wood wall of some type on the back side (maybe cedar based) but agree there are lots of considerations on that topic.

Just make sure if you do consider a pitching area that there is a net or something solid to catch the pass balls or wild pitches as the case may be.

 

[IXFE]

Okay, here is version 2.0 from PB#1. We just got this yesterday. Changes include:

1) Move cabana 15' closer to clear 20' easement. Also, take 3' off the depth of the cabana... it didn't need to be 22x22. In this pic it's 19x22. That shaved $2,500 off the quote. I like the width because I think it helps block as much of that house as possible. I'd make even more shallow, but I like the idea of a ping pong table out there, and those need 19'x11'... but I don't want that to be the ONLY thing out there.
2) Removed the 6' wall I was just discussing. That saved $7,500.
3) Removed the 14x14 arbor. We were concerned that it blocked the view out of our master bedroom, and questioned how much shade it was really going to provide. That saved $6,300
4) Moved putting green to other side
5) Swap locations of spa and swim step
6) Added stone boots to cabana posts and stepping stones to fire pit (these were in the original pictures, but left out of the quote). This added $1,600
7) Replaced concrete with "Tier II" pavers (more on that in my next post)

Total quote is now $127K