First, I love all the information on this site. I was so excited about our pool, but sadly, I've lost my excitement. First, I thought we had a good budget ($90K), but no one has been able to stay within our budget and still keep the pool at a decent size (at least 32 length and over 15K gallons). Thus, we have adjusted our budget and now we are trying to decide between two designs. Some background.... our house came with a huge 24x24 feet concrete slab in the backyard. We believe the owners were going to build an outdoor covered kitchen area as the slab is set with gas and water, but did not realize the building restrictions. As a result, we have a huge slab with water and gas pipers sticking out. Thus, the pool designers had two options -- design around the slab or remove it. This is the main difference between the two designs. If you remove the slab, you will be able to see the pool from inside the house. If not, you will not be able to see the pool and the stairs have to be positioned off the side of the porch. The second difference between the two designs is the decking -- concrete with acrylic overlay with travertine accents vs. flagstone. The final difference is the amount of decking. I know it may seem odd to ask strangers which pool they prefer, but I think this group has the best experience with pools. This is a huge expenditure so we will take any and all advice/opinions. Also, any concerns with flagstone vs. concrete with acrylic overlay?? Thank you!
Need help deciding between two different designs....
- Thread starter krisk
- Start date
I'm new here too, so welcome!
Please bear in mind I don't have any real technical knowledge behind my answer, so my response is really just based on what I see and how I think the pool layout, features and decking look to me.
I strongly prefer the straight line pool option over the free form; but with some minor suggested tweaks. Unless you are dead set of the curved/Grecian corners, consider a 45 degree corner. This avoids the sharp 90 degree corner and works with the bay window and other lines of the pool already. Also, consider adding opposing benches to the angled corners, or one between the two of them(I can elaborate if that does't make sense). Finally, I love the level changes incorporated in this design. This is going to look amazing ground level -- even if you can't see it from the back window. Overall, this just looks like a much more fun and functional pool and deck layout.
On the free form one, because of the elevation drop have you considered the infinity look. This may be a bit too modern for your taste, but that could be a cool way to handle the back portion of the pool and enhance the view.
Please bear in mind I don't have any real technical knowledge behind my answer, so my response is really just based on what I see and how I think the pool layout, features and decking look to me.
I strongly prefer the straight line pool option over the free form; but with some minor suggested tweaks. Unless you are dead set of the curved/Grecian corners, consider a 45 degree corner. This avoids the sharp 90 degree corner and works with the bay window and other lines of the pool already. Also, consider adding opposing benches to the angled corners, or one between the two of them(I can elaborate if that does't make sense). Finally, I love the level changes incorporated in this design. This is going to look amazing ground level -- even if you can't see it from the back window. Overall, this just looks like a much more fun and functional pool and deck layout.
On the free form one, because of the elevation drop have you considered the infinity look. This may be a bit too modern for your taste, but that could be a cool way to handle the back portion of the pool and enhance the view.
Thanks for your insight. Love hearing a new opinion! I prefer the straight line as well, but my husband prefers the free-form. With the straight line, you will only see the back patio slab from inside the house and most of the covered porch. He doesn't want to spend all this money and look at concrete. I think everyone in SA, TX (it seems) has a free-from flagstone pool so I like being different. Also, our home is more Mediterranean not Hill Country so I think symmetrical would look great. Finally, its seems that most people on the site say to get as much decking as you can afford so the symmetrical follows that rule!
- May 23, 2015
- 24,449
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I prefer the second design. I have a freeform pool, although not as curvy as the first design, and it is next-to-impossible to put a bubble cover on it for heating purposes....and yes, you will want a heater for your pool. The rectangular design, even with curved Grecian corners, is much, MUCH easier to fit a cover to.
I would also move the spillway of the spa in the second design from spilling over onto the sun ledge to spilling over into the shallow end. Spilling water into a shallow depth like the sun ledge (18" depth at most) will cause a lot of splashing. That has impact over time in the form of evaporite deposits (white, crusty, adherent scale on the tiling).
Unless your heart is set on having an attached spa, I would ditch the spa in favor of a bigger sun shelf with more bubblers. Attached spas are whimpy at best and do not give you much of a therapeutic massage like a separate hot tub will. My pool has an attached spa and I would get rid of it in a heartbeat for more sun-shelf space and bubblers. I would much rather have a separate hot tub and, considering the size of the slab you have, a good PB could figure out how to integrate a stand-alone hot tub with your design and tie it all in together.
Just my opinion for what it's worth....
I would also move the spillway of the spa in the second design from spilling over onto the sun ledge to spilling over into the shallow end. Spilling water into a shallow depth like the sun ledge (18" depth at most) will cause a lot of splashing. That has impact over time in the form of evaporite deposits (white, crusty, adherent scale on the tiling).
Unless your heart is set on having an attached spa, I would ditch the spa in favor of a bigger sun shelf with more bubblers. Attached spas are whimpy at best and do not give you much of a therapeutic massage like a separate hot tub will. My pool has an attached spa and I would get rid of it in a heartbeat for more sun-shelf space and bubblers. I would much rather have a separate hot tub and, considering the size of the slab you have, a good PB could figure out how to integrate a stand-alone hot tub with your design and tie it all in together.
Just my opinion for what it's worth....
K,
If those were the only two possibilities, I'd go with the rectangular one. But.. to be blunt, I did not get the "Wow, what a pool!!" factor out of either of them.
I wish I could put my finger on why, but I'm not really sure.
If this were my house, I'd be talking with a couple more pool builders/designers and trying to get other options.
Thanks for posting,
Jim R.
If those were the only two possibilities, I'd go with the rectangular one. But.. to be blunt, I did not get the "Wow, what a pool!!" factor out of either of them.
I wish I could put my finger on why, but I'm not really sure.
If this were my house, I'd be talking with a couple more pool builders/designers and trying to get other options.
Thanks for posting,
Jim R.
That's an excellent point about the spill-over in the sun shelf. With the bubbler that may be too much splashing.
Jim, we spoke with two other pool builders (total of four) who submitted designs. To be honest, we were floored by the prices of pools here. We thought we would spend about $75K and for $100K we would get an outdoor oasis. You get the pictures above for $100K and that doesn't include all the landscaping we will need to do to get the area to even closely resemble the computer drawings. This probably will not be our forever home so I can't justify spending anymore money. Sadly, the prices are outrageous here and has definitely taken the fun out of the process.
Jim, we spoke with two other pool builders (total of four) who submitted designs. To be honest, we were floored by the prices of pools here. We thought we would spend about $75K and for $100K we would get an outdoor oasis. You get the pictures above for $100K and that doesn't include all the landscaping we will need to do to get the area to even closely resemble the computer drawings. This probably will not be our forever home so I can't justify spending anymore money. Sadly, the prices are outrageous here and has definitely taken the fun out of the process.
I really like the design of the rectangular, Grecian form pool. I'd also second the spa/sun shelf comments of Matt's. Unless some special secondary pumping is used or the main pool pump is obscenely oversized, attached spas just aren't the same as stand-alones and that shelf space is FUN space.
As far as concrete vs. flagstone, I would lean toward concrete with the overlay. The most important question: is there a significant cost difference? Properly installed concrete and overlays will tend to be more durable than a relatively soft stone like flagstone (typically a sandstone or limestone material). I think if you go with the rectangular pool, the concrete, perhaps with decorative stamping, overlay and/or joints could more easily fit the symmetrical design of the pool where flagstone tends to be more irregular, natural or free-form in appearance.
As far as concrete vs. flagstone, I would lean toward concrete with the overlay. The most important question: is there a significant cost difference? Properly installed concrete and overlays will tend to be more durable than a relatively soft stone like flagstone (typically a sandstone or limestone material). I think if you go with the rectangular pool, the concrete, perhaps with decorative stamping, overlay and/or joints could more easily fit the symmetrical design of the pool where flagstone tends to be more irregular, natural or free-form in appearance.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,449
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
An excellent summary by Joel! If you want elegant, graceful lines that create an "indoor space outdoors", then you go with concrete (stamps or overlays). If you want a backyard lagoon oasis type effect, you go with the more naturally shaped flagstone. I think the first design tries to marry a lagoon effect with some kind of elegant space and sort of delivers halfway on both. Whereas the second design just tries to go for elegance but misses the mark a little bit because there no texture or pattern to the hardscape. Perhaps that's why Jim was so underwhelmed by them
As for the cost, you are right to be concerned but not likely to find any relief. Some areas of Texas have HUGE installation costs because of the nature of the sub-contractors used and the labor rates that are charged (or so I'm told...). If this is not your "forever home" I would be really, really hesitant to sink that much money into it. Pools DO NOT add as much value to a home in terms of sale price as people think. So dumping $100k into the home that you don't plan to own for the long haul may mean money spent that you will never recover in a sale. You might want to reconsider building your "dream pool" until you are sure you're living where you want to. Most people can only afford to build a pool once in their lifetime...
Hi,
I just finished having my pool built and so I'm also new to this forum. In fact, this is the first posting I've done. I think you can save a decent chunk of money by not adding the spa as well as not having to heat it. I'm not saying don't purchase a heater for your pool, because you should. You simply don't have to pre-heat the spa for use when you want it (say 98º to 102º) and then have spill over of the heated water into the pool. Saving money by not putting a spa in isn't the reason why I chose to leave it out. As Matt says, even with the best spa combo with a pool, the spa does not perform like a hot tub, the latter having many, many more jets for relaxation. You could leave the spa out and save some money then if you find you're going to be in the house longer term, you could purchase a good hot tub. Use the money you save from not installing the spa to do some additional landscaping.
Regarding the shape of the pool, I definitely like the rectangular shape better and that's a personal preference. I'm also not really enamored with the Greek corners as I think it's a way to try and make a simple rectangle more attractive. Again personal preference. Have you considered the possibility of making the sun shelf longer and putting it on the long side of the pool closest to the house? In fact you could do a beach entry into the pool on the long side, keep the pool rectangular and curve the beach entry or sun shelf to add a bit more interest of a rectangular pool. Thought I'd throw out a couple of ideas to do perhaps in place of the spa.
I also recommend that if and when you would do a hot tub, to put it as close to the outside entrance door (if you have one) to your Master Bedroom. I have had hot tubs previously and also have a separate hot tub now, and I've found that type of placement to work extremely well.
Finally, I just wanted to comment on the concrete vs flagstone. I love the look of flagstone BUT you need to put sand between the stones (at least I think you would). I don't know what they use for a base for flagstone, but my travertine is on a base of crushed shells, then a layer of sand, then the travertine. What I've found is the base sand can wash out from underneath the travertine causing the stone to crack. I've already had the pool builder come back and replace a number of cracked stones. I don't think you'd have that issue with concrete. There are also a ton of options that you could consider for the concrete such as through coloring, staining, epoxy coating, stamping (as mentioned above), and more.
I'll leave you with this, the addition of a pool and the addition of an unground spa are the second and third worst investments you can make in a home based on ROI; installing an outdoor kitchen is the worst. Don't forget the cost to maintain the pool/spa, think about how much you'll use them. How much your energy bills will climb to heat the water. Your insurance is likely to go up and you likely will have to invest in a pool fence. In fact, some insurance carriers require it.
The paragraph above isn't meant to be a downer. I use my portable spa, almost every day, and I swim almost every day. I invest in both again in a heart beat. I just wanted to point out some things to think about because the house where you are now, doesn't seem like it's going to be your forever home. I hope what I provided at least gives you a thing or two to ponder before investing that kind of money in something where the ROI can be 0% to a max of ~25% depending on the area of the country where you live.
Good luck with your decision and Happy New Year!
Jay
I just finished having my pool built and so I'm also new to this forum. In fact, this is the first posting I've done. I think you can save a decent chunk of money by not adding the spa as well as not having to heat it. I'm not saying don't purchase a heater for your pool, because you should. You simply don't have to pre-heat the spa for use when you want it (say 98º to 102º) and then have spill over of the heated water into the pool. Saving money by not putting a spa in isn't the reason why I chose to leave it out. As Matt says, even with the best spa combo with a pool, the spa does not perform like a hot tub, the latter having many, many more jets for relaxation. You could leave the spa out and save some money then if you find you're going to be in the house longer term, you could purchase a good hot tub. Use the money you save from not installing the spa to do some additional landscaping.
Regarding the shape of the pool, I definitely like the rectangular shape better and that's a personal preference. I'm also not really enamored with the Greek corners as I think it's a way to try and make a simple rectangle more attractive. Again personal preference. Have you considered the possibility of making the sun shelf longer and putting it on the long side of the pool closest to the house? In fact you could do a beach entry into the pool on the long side, keep the pool rectangular and curve the beach entry or sun shelf to add a bit more interest of a rectangular pool. Thought I'd throw out a couple of ideas to do perhaps in place of the spa.
I also recommend that if and when you would do a hot tub, to put it as close to the outside entrance door (if you have one) to your Master Bedroom. I have had hot tubs previously and also have a separate hot tub now, and I've found that type of placement to work extremely well.
Finally, I just wanted to comment on the concrete vs flagstone. I love the look of flagstone BUT you need to put sand between the stones (at least I think you would). I don't know what they use for a base for flagstone, but my travertine is on a base of crushed shells, then a layer of sand, then the travertine. What I've found is the base sand can wash out from underneath the travertine causing the stone to crack. I've already had the pool builder come back and replace a number of cracked stones. I don't think you'd have that issue with concrete. There are also a ton of options that you could consider for the concrete such as through coloring, staining, epoxy coating, stamping (as mentioned above), and more.
I'll leave you with this, the addition of a pool and the addition of an unground spa are the second and third worst investments you can make in a home based on ROI; installing an outdoor kitchen is the worst. Don't forget the cost to maintain the pool/spa, think about how much you'll use them. How much your energy bills will climb to heat the water. Your insurance is likely to go up and you likely will have to invest in a pool fence. In fact, some insurance carriers require it.
The paragraph above isn't meant to be a downer. I use my portable spa, almost every day, and I swim almost every day. I invest in both again in a heart beat. I just wanted to point out some things to think about because the house where you are now, doesn't seem like it's going to be your forever home. I hope what I provided at least gives you a thing or two to ponder before investing that kind of money in something where the ROI can be 0% to a max of ~25% depending on the area of the country where you live.
Good luck with your decision and Happy New Year!
Jay
Well, now I'm really down... joking!! I appreciate all the thoughtful advice -- all on point and constructive. I've made notes of all the suggestions and sent them to the designers. This has also sparked us to think about whether we really want to spend this money. In the end, although this may not be our forever home, it may be. My husband said can't make decisions on the possibility we may move for a job one day. In our neighborhood, 45 of the 50 homes have pools. Given the size and layout of the house, only a family with kids would buy our house. Thus, we think we can get about 50% of the expenditure back or 25% at a sales price that would move quickly and cut on expensive holding costs. Our neighbors with kids use their pools every day from May to October. Thus, a negative ROI, but hoping hours of family fun!
Ok, so along with the suggestions, I'm going to search what else we can do on the ends of the pool. I loved the idea of moving the tanning shelf to the side, but I think it would be too narrow due to the constraints of the house and the slab.
Again, what great advice! Looking forward to all the knowledge you all can pass along when we get to the equipment which isn't very interesting to this non-techie!
Ok, so along with the suggestions, I'm going to search what else we can do on the ends of the pool. I loved the idea of moving the tanning shelf to the side, but I think it would be too narrow due to the constraints of the house and the slab.
Again, what great advice! Looking forward to all the knowledge you all can pass along when we get to the equipment which isn't very interesting to this non-techie!
I really do not have much to add but to say I agree with all that has been said up there ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I REALLY prefer the second pool over the first. More pool=more people playing. More decking=more places to sit and entertain. I like the second one as you could actually swim in the pool from one end to the other.
I SO understand where your hubby is coming from as I LOVE looking out at my pool even when it is too cold to go in it. BUT if you think about USE of the pool the second one is the best.
I would love to see a picture of where the pool is going to go. That will help us see what you are dealing with.
Kim
I SO understand where your hubby is coming from as I LOVE looking out at my pool even when it is too cold to go in it. BUT if you think about USE of the pool the second one is the best.
I would love to see a picture of where the pool is going to go. That will help us see what you are dealing with.
Kim
As a builder I would discourage the built in spa and encourage a stand alone spa in the future. I would recommend an auto cover since that would help with the resale factor some. It is a great safety benefit.
Thanks again for all the input! In Texas, it seems fairly standard to have the spa attached to the pool. There is a separate pump and 8 spa jets (3 pumps in total (I believe) as there needs to be one for the bubblers. Thus, I think we need to keep it attached "just because everyone else does it"... yep, not the best reason. Ok, we made some changes to both plans. On first plan, added more decking. Second plan, changed spa and added a water feature.
Again, my husband would really like to see some of the pool from the house which is not possible on the second plan and the stairs are off to the side (these are the constraints of working around the existing patio slab which the first plan removes). My concerns with the first plan are it seems everyone is TX has free-form flagstone, there isn't enough decking, only one access point, no jumping for when my kids are older....but, my husband likes it because you can see the pool and we both like the bar area.
Do the revisions change your preference?
View attachment 56241
Again, my husband would really like to see some of the pool from the house which is not possible on the second plan and the stairs are off to the side (these are the constraints of working around the existing patio slab which the first plan removes). My concerns with the first plan are it seems everyone is TX has free-form flagstone, there isn't enough decking, only one access point, no jumping for when my kids are older....but, my husband likes it because you can see the pool and we both like the bar area.
Do the revisions change your preference?
View attachment 56241
Adding the new area to the first one does push it up in my like meter! Makes it more of a destination area. Nice job.
Have you thought about just doing the second pool (rectangle) WHERE the freeform pool is. I know you are trying to keep the rectangle pool using the existing slab BUT I do worry the slab is going to get ruined while they build the pool. Large equipment running over it, dirt and mud staining it, etc.
Kim
Have you thought about just doing the second pool (rectangle) WHERE the freeform pool is. I know you are trying to keep the rectangle pool using the existing slab BUT I do worry the slab is going to get ruined while they build the pool. Large equipment running over it, dirt and mud staining it, etc.
Kim
Hi.
First off, I do have what might be a silly question...is it possible to move either variant of the pool further back in the yard to give more adjacent living/eating/BBQ/bar space close to the house?
Secondly, lets pretend this is your forever home, given the price tag. A forever home needs to be accessible to account for future mobility challenges
The second design seems to lend itself to easier accessibility, IMHO, though I realize ether way those stairs would be a challenge.
Lastly, being able to see the pool from the house is to my mind valid for a couple of reasons -- for the investment, the aesthic pleasure factor is very high. For safety, it is also useful to be able to see the pool.
If the pool were further from the house, with more living area next to the house, is it possible the second design would be viewable from the house?
If those things matter to you, its worth asking the designers to incorporate the key elements.
First off, I do have what might be a silly question...is it possible to move either variant of the pool further back in the yard to give more adjacent living/eating/BBQ/bar space close to the house?
Secondly, lets pretend this is your forever home, given the price tag. A forever home needs to be accessible to account for future mobility challenges
The second design seems to lend itself to easier accessibility, IMHO, though I realize ether way those stairs would be a challenge.
Lastly, being able to see the pool from the house is to my mind valid for a couple of reasons -- for the investment, the aesthic pleasure factor is very high. For safety, it is also useful to be able to see the pool.
If the pool were further from the house, with more living area next to the house, is it possible the second design would be viewable from the house?
If those things matter to you, its worth asking the designers to incorporate the key elements.
I like the look of the Free Form a lot and I usually prefer geometric, but the deck space seems more functional on the rectangle. Everyone I talk to in my area likes having an attached spa and people who have pools built from the 60s with no attached spa wish they had one. Attached spas are more seamless and I don't need to be pounded by jets. I was in my neighbors attached spa yesterday and enjoyed it a lot. I would have enjoyed a detached one as well but to ME the attached spa looks better...especially if you don't have a gigantic yard. I would have to agree with you on not building the same pool as everyone else. As for an investment... yea pools are not a great investment, but I think the blanket statements people make about ROI are too general. It depends on your neighborhood. For example, in central Florida where I live, not having a pool is miserable. It is hot and the beach is an hour away. Most people in my area want a pool and if mine is more modern than some of the older pools built, it would have a slightly better return and sell faster than without..although I'm sure still losing money.
I love the first one! I think if u r going for the Paradise feel, that is definitely it!
The second Freeform design is my favorite- I like all the different elevation changes. But there is something off on the design of the initial entry stairs. My favorite part of the straight line pool is how the stairway is off to the side...I think the straight down and narrow is too stark of a contrast with the curves of the freeform. What about having stairs that go from narrow at the top and very wide at the bottom with a gentle curve like the new handrail on the lower deck?
My husband and I thought about going back to the pool builder and asking to redesign the symmetrical by removing the slab and pushing the pool back, but I think that would push the cost way up due to the cost of the removal of the slab then adding back some of that patio area to the front of the house. But, hey...at this point
Love the idea of the handrails! I noticed my neighbor has something very similar at their house. I would post pictures of the current back yard as both designs don't show the oak trees to the left of the pool, but I'm out of space on this thread....maybe when we start building