13 days No improvement

jerseypool

Member
Jun 11, 2015
7
Jackson,NJ
Pool Size
28000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Been using BBB method following this forum since 2015. Always have great success opening pool even without having a good cover. Ours has some holes and Dog likes to run across it like it’s not there so haven’t used it for 3 years. I do blow out lines and put all equipment in shed for the winter so everything is functioning properly. This year has been different. Removed 9 garbage bags of leaves and vacuumed several times so as confident as I can be that all is removed. I Can only see about a foot down after 14 days of slamming the pool. That is the problem.

Adjusted TA to 100 and PH to 7.4 as always. Raised CYA and let it settle for a few days to 30 ppm then raised to 50. My normal setting. Tested everything with Taylor k-2006 kit. Triple checked CYA at 2 additional pool stores to confirm 50ppm. Then I started adding 8% liquid chlorine from local hardware store that I have been using for several years now. They say it’s 12% but based on size of pool and increase per gallon added I believe it’s more like 8%. At 17$ per five it’s still the best deal around. Kept free chlorine at suggested levels for each cya level testing 2-3 times a day. About 4 days ago I noticed that the FC levels weren’t dropping despite the pool still being cloudy with visibility about a foot. So I checked combined chlorine and it was 2.5ppm. At This point I was slamming at 20ppm. I looked up on The inter webs and discover something called chlorine lock. So I raised FC to 10x CC folllowing the generally accepted breakpoint rule. I let sit overnight and this am there was no change in clarity at all. Just a lot more foam on the water surface.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I am stuck and really don’t want to waste water by lowering and refilling until I have tried everything . Should I try a non chlorine oxidizer? Read mixed things about those and their effect on CC.
 

CrystalRiver

Well-known member
Jun 19, 2020
648
Massachusetts
For the future, don't raise your alkalinity to 100. Anything over 50 is high enough. The higher your alkalinity, the faster your pH will rise, the more acid you will have to add to lower the pH, which also pulls your TA down, then you think you need to raise the TA again, whatever you add to raise TA also raises the pH. It's a merry-go-round. Just let your TA ride, as long as it's over 50 and your CSI is in range you can pretty much ignore it.

SLAM is easier at lower CYA levels so going forward, only raise CYA to 30 if you know you are going to SLAM. Once SLAM is done, you can raise CYA for the season.

Stay out of the pool stores. No "breakpoint" chlorination, that's a myth and such high FC levels can damage your equipment. UV from the sun is all you need to get rid of CCs. If your pool has both sun and CCs, that's the chlorine consuming certain contaminants in your pool. The foam you are seeing is also from the chlorine reacting with contaminants in the pool.

MPS (non chlorine shock) will show up as CCs for quite a while after use. It's not actual CCs that are easily broken down by UV, but testing interference. Chlorine is all you need.

What color is your water? Green, bluish white, silver white? After 14 days at SLAM, it should be silver white or maybe bluish white. What chemicals have you added in the past several days? What are current and recent test results? Filter running 24/7? When was it last cleaned?
 
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clambert1273

Gold Supporter
Jun 13, 2013
1,110
Gilbert, AZ
Pool Size
12000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
CircuPool Edge-40
Only thing I will add t Crystal above is usually cloudy water is now a filter thing and takes some patience to let the filter clear it up. Have you done any maintenance on the DE filter lately?
 

Mdragger88

Bronze Supporter
Jun 1, 2018
2,444
Hernando, Ms
Pool Size
26000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Intex Krystal Clear
Are you vacuuming & brushing the walls daily (albeit blindly) ?
Also how often are you testing?
*Note - if the cya test reads anywhere in the 50’s then u call it 60 & bump up to the next slam level
 
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jerseypool

Member
Jun 11, 2015
7
Jackson,NJ
Pool Size
28000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
For the future, don't raise your alkalinity to 100. Anything over 50 is high enough. The higher your alkalinity, the faster your pH will rise, the more acid you will have to add to lower the pH, which also pulls your TA down, then you think you need to raise the TA again, whatever you add to raise TA also raises the pH. It's a merry-go-round. Just let your TA ride, as long as it's over 50 and your CSI is in range you can pretty much ignore it.

SLAM is easier at lower CYA levels so going forward, only raise CYA to 30 if you know you are going to SLAM. Once SLAM is done, you can raise CYA for the season.

Stay out of the pool stores. No "breakpoint" chlorination, that's a myth and such high FC levels can damage your equipment. UV from the sun is all you need to get rid of CCs. If your pool has both sun and CCs, that's the chlorine consuming certain contaminants in your pool. The foam you are seeing is also from the chlorine reacting with contaminants in the pool.

MPS (non chlorine shock) will show up as CCs for quite a while after use. It's not actual CCs that are easily broken down by UV, but testing interference. Chlorine is all you need.

What color is your water? Green, bluish white, silver white? After 14 days at SLAM, it should be silver white or maybe bluish white. What chemicals have you added in the past several days? What are current and recent test results? Filter running 24/7? When was it last cleaned?
Thank you for the info on TA. I have riding that merry go round for many summers. Will be nice to get off.

I hear you on the CYA. Last year I didn’t add it until after it was clear and I thought I lost way too much chlorine due to the sun. This year it looks like I over corrected to soon. Pool has direct sun for most of the day but it has been overcast with t storms for last 2 days.

Water started black/ brown then green and has been bluish white for at least a week. Only adding liquid chlorine. Free chlorine was 25 ppm last night before dark and 23ppm at 8 am this morning. Given how cloudy the water is I expected it to drop much more. Haven’t been testing any other levels because FC is so high. Filter has been running 24/7 and cartridges are cleaned whenever pressure gets to 10 which was About 3 times so far. They were last cleaned 2 days ago after vacuum. Currently sitting at 6 after vacuum yesterday. Will clean again this evening. I have two sets I rotate.

thanks again for all of your help.
 

CrystalRiver

Well-known member
Jun 19, 2020
648
Massachusetts
Pressure going from 6 to 10 is a 67% pressure increase. The usual recommendation is to clean whenever pressure rises by 25%. That has the best balance of not backwashing too often, but also not waiting too long. When the filter is too dirty, flow drops.
 

jerseypool

Member
Jun 11, 2015
7
Jackson,NJ
Pool Size
28000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Only thing I will add t Crystal above is usually cloudy water is now a filter thing and takes some patience to let the filter clear it up. Have you done any maintenance on the DE filter lately?
Yes. Totally agree. Trying to be patient but My 9 year old supervisor and 12 year old manager are very pushy and quick to point out that the neighbors pool was also black and they are now swimming.

I have a 2 year old pentair 420 cartridge set up. I listed cleaning routine in previous post. I moved away from de 2 years ago. Didn’t like backwashing and wasting so much water. When your pool opens dirty like mine always does DE can be a real pain due to clogging all of the time. I need to switch to a solid cover. I think The mesh one I hAve let’s too much thru.

I do have to say that you can definitely notice the difference in sparkle Between the two types. Cartridge water is easier but it doesn’t sparkle like DE when all is running well in my experience.
 

clambert1273

Gold Supporter
Jun 13, 2013
1,110
Gilbert, AZ
Pool Size
12000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
CircuPool Edge-40
Yes. Totally agree. Trying to be patient but My 9 year old supervisor and 12 year old manager are very pushy and quick to point out that the neighbors pool was also black and they are now swimming.

I have a 2 year old pentair 420 cartridge set up. I listed cleaning routine in previous post. I moved away from de 2 years ago. Didn’t like backwashing and wasting so much water. When your pool opens dirty like mine always does DE can be a real pain due to clogging all of the time. I need to switch to a solid cover. I think The mesh one I hAve let’s too much thru.

I do have to say that you can definitely notice the difference in sparkle Between the two types. Cartridge water is easier but it doesn’t sparkle like DE when all is running well in my experience.
I just added cartridge filter this year so time will tell for me, I miss my de filter cuz its what I know 🤷‍♀️
 

jerseypool

Member
Jun 11, 2015
7
Jackson,NJ
Pool Size
28000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Are you vacuuming & brushing the walls daily (albeit blindly) ?
Also how often are you testing?
*Note - if the cya test reads anywhere in the 50’s then u call it 60 & bump up to the next slam level
Yes. I brush every day 😁 The cya reading using the Taylor kit is hard for me to see so I usually take to a pool place to read the cya and confirm my results. Two different places had it at 47 using the electronic spinny test thing. Not reagents. I did actually take it up to 25 ppm albeit for a different reason. I haven’t tested anything else because FC is so high and i heard it interferes with results.

Pool place actually told me not to worry about the CYA. Big sign on the counter telling employees that any cya reading below 100 was “good”. LOL. I spend as little time In there as possible. TFP saved me!

Thank you for your post. Appreciate your help!
 
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jerseypool

Member
Jun 11, 2015
7
Jackson,NJ
Pool Size
28000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
I just added cartridge filter this year so time will tell for me, I miss my de filter cuz its what I know 🤷‍♀️
You will not regret it. Every time I drive past a big puddle of water from all of the neighbors washing their DE and water down the drain I know I did the right thing.
 

clambert1273

Gold Supporter
Jun 13, 2013
1,110
Gilbert, AZ
Pool Size
12000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
CircuPool Edge-40
You will not regret it. Every time I drive past a big puddle of water from all of the neighbors washing their DE and water down the drain I know I did the right thing.
Mine backwashed to my dirt area (aka yard) so the water was good lol
 

jerseypool

Member
Jun 11, 2015
7
Jackson,NJ
Pool Size
28000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Pressure going from 6 to 10 is a 67% pressure increase. The usual recommendation is to clean whenever pressure rises by 25%. That has the best balance of not backwashing too often, but also not waiting too long. When the filter is too dirty, flow drops.
With my old DE that was absolutely the case. Flow would be noticeable different at the returns with only a few pounds increase in pressure. Surface area was only like 90 inches or something. Cartridge filter has 420 inches of areas so the flow is not very affected at similar pressure readings. This is just my experience and may be completely off in my thought process. When I first got this filter I did take the cartridges out when it increased by 2 lbs like I did with my DE but they were very clean so I have been using 10 ever since. At 10 psi the flow back to the pool is not noticeably different then 1 psi when clean. It definitely can’t hurt to clean as often as possible given the current state of clarity. And given the math you present it makes perfect sense to keep as low as possible. Thank you !
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
41,573
Laughlin, NV
Pool Size
6000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
At 10 psi the flow back to the pool is not noticeably different then 1 psi when clean
Your single speed pump lets you get away with that. A VS pump will not. I suspect your flow rate is less, just not noticeable as your SS pump is so overpowered for the actual need.