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Thread: Nature 2 system on agp

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    Nature 2 system on agp

    I have been using the Nature 2 system but have not seen the benefits of it. Algae problems...
    Finding out more about proper maintenance--brushing pool run pump 24/7. Are you familiar with this system? I was told that when I shocked for mustard algae last week that I could have bleached out and ruined the cartridge. I put 3lbs of calcium hypochloride hydrate and algaecide 60. The chlorine level stayed high about 9ppm for two days. Also when I had my water tested yesterday I asked about the cc level and don't test for that. Here are my results anyway:
    Ta 120
    ph 7.2
    cya 90
    th 240
    tc 2.4
    fc 2.4
    The water is clear for now. Would just like to one summer that we could the pool with out alot of interruption.
    I have an AG pool started in the summer of '04 using the Nature 2 cartridge. It is 27' round about 19k gallons. We use a sand filter--cpm 19 with an 1.5 hp pump.

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    MikeInTN's Avatar
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    Re: Nature 2 system on agp

    Unfortunately, several of our members are all too familiar with the N2 or it's equivalents (pool frog and Aquasmarte). They use stabilized chlorine (trichlor) for sanitation and and metals for an algaecide. The stablized chlorine will eventually result in the stabilizer level being too high(which it is), so you effectively have no free chlorine in the pool to sanitize the pool properly, and algae will start growing. The metals you're introducing to the pool cause problems of their own (such as staining, turning blonde hair green, etc).

    Personal experience, I had the Aquasmarte, and used it for three years or so. The last year was nothing but trouble; I was constantly fighting an algae bloom. I didn't know there was a better way until I found this site. Needless to say, I no longer use the Aquasmarte. I had to shock my pool once, maybe twice last season, didn't have any algae problems at all, and opened to crystal clear water this year.

    Here's a link discussing the various alternative sanitizers, such as the N2. Here's another link that also discusses mineral systems and their pitfalls.

    To start with, click on "Pool School" in the upper right hand corner and start reading. Feel free to ask questions along the way, and see if you think our methods are for you. It'll be some work at first (partial water drains to lower your CYA level, manually adding bleach, doing your own testing) but after you get your water balanced and get comfortable with testing your own water, you'll be amazed at how good your pool looks, and how simple the maintenance is.
    24' x 52" AGP - approx 13,500 gallons
    Pentair Optiflo 1 hp/2sp pump w/ Swimpro Voyager 150 sq ft cartridge filter
    Intex 8110 SWCG
    "Fear the Schnauz!"

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Nature 2 system on agp

    Mee tooo! Had the Pool Frog, no benefits and was tired of spending too much money and having nothing but trouble. Found TFP and switched to BBB 2 years ago, never looked back.

    Mike gave you great advice...

    I also would recommend you do a series of partial drains, about 1 foot down, replace with fresh water. (I had CYA over 100 and had to lower/refill 3 times.) You'll probably have to do it 2 or 3 times to lower the CYA level into the recommended range, then you just keep your FC level according to the CYA chart.

    Remove the N2 cart from the cannister, next year you can remove the cannister from the plumbing line. Just use liquid chlorine, a.k.a., bleach for your chlorination needs. Over a short period of time if you follow the BBB method your pool will exceed your expectations!

    Read the articles in Pool School for more info, and then ask any questions if you need further assiatance.

    Welcome to TFP!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Nature 2 system on agp

    My head is spinning from all the info. Thanks so much for taking the time to help me. Just a few questions though-- I have already bought a supply of the trichlor tabs for this summer. If I just keep the fc level up should I use these up first? We are on well water so iron is a problem. And what do ya'll do when you go out of town for a week if your suppose to add bleach daily? I'm really interested in changing over to the BBB method. Also should I be running my pump all the time like they said at the pool store?
    I have an AG pool started in the summer of '04 using the Nature 2 cartridge. It is 27' round about 19k gallons. We use a sand filter--cpm 19 with an 1.5 hp pump.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Nature 2 system on agp

    Quote Originally Posted by gtrum60
    My head is spinning from all the info. Thanks so much for taking the time to help me. Just a few questions though-- I have already bought a supply of the trichlor tabs for this summer. If I just keep the fc level up should I use these up first? We are on well water so iron is a problem. And what do ya'll do when you go out of town for a week if your suppose to add bleach daily? I'm really interested in changing over to the BBB method. Also should I be running my pump all the time like they said at the pool store?
    Nope, tabs will continue to add CYA to your too high level. You can save them, store them in a cool, dry place and they should keep.

    Is your pump a 1 speed?

    When I go on vacation: Say I'm leaving Saturday morning. Thursday afternoon I add Polyquat 60 algaecide. Friday night, I shock my pool with bleach. I leave it covered - covering it cuts down on FC loss and evaporation. My pool runs on low speed 24/7 - If I'm gone longer than 7 days I may asked a friend to check on things (pump/water level). Once I was gone 11 days and I had a friend pour in a small jug of bleach on day 7. Came back, all was good.

    Even if I come back to green (never have) I know how to fix it.

    Some people use a floater with trichlor tabs while they're away. It all depends on your current levels if that would work for you. You would need to lower your CYA into range before you could do that.

    Iron - have your water tested for it and you may need to use a metal sequesterant to prevent problems during refill.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Nature 2 system on agp

    Short of a water softener resin to remove the Iron, I thought I saw spa/pool refill filters that fit on the end of the garden hose that removed particles and iron from the water.

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    Re: Nature 2 system on agp

    We do have a 1 speed pump. And the pool gets anywhere from 10 to 12 hours of sun a day. I'm ready to get started though. Where can the test kits be purchased? And once we start draining the pool is it a long process to switch over to the BBB method. Also is there a test kit available for the iron in our water or is that something to be checked at the pool store?

    Thanks again
    Tammy
    I have an AG pool started in the summer of '04 using the Nature 2 cartridge. It is 27' round about 19k gallons. We use a sand filter--cpm 19 with an 1.5 hp pump.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Nature 2 system on agp

    Quote Originally Posted by gtrum60
    We do have a 1 speed pump. And the pool gets anywhere from 10 to 12 hours of sun a day. I'm ready to get started though. Where can the test kits be purchased? And once we start draining the pool is it a long process to switch over to the BBB method. Also is there a test kit available for the iron in our water or is that something to be checked at the pool store?

    Thanks again
    Tammy
    The pool store can check for Iron.

    As for test kits, 90% of the time people try to find the K-2006 at pool stores, they end up with the wrong kit (K-2005) or a poor imitation, and end up having to spend more money to get the right kit or the right parts of the kit. You are better off ordering the TF100 (only available online) from TFTestkits.net or the K-2006 from Taylor. Read about the test kits - there is an article comparing them in Pool School.

    No it's not a long process, you can begin as soon as your water level is back up to the normal level, and you recirculate, retest. You can have the pool store test for you, until your kit arrives, that can get you started.

    AFter you have done your partial drain/refill, post new test results and we'll help you get it straight.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Nature 2 system on agp

    About the pump. When everything is cleared up, try running your pump for 12 hours a day... use a timer...try 7am to 7pm or whatever (remember to circulate for a few hours after adding any chems, so this schedule might need adjusting if you do your daily additions late evening).

    Try reducing the run time an hour...work your way down, Say you get to 8 hours a day run time and your water looks dull or grey/cloudy or just lost its sparkle, then increase it back up till you find the right run time for your pool. It's trial and error, really, but you should not have to run it 24/7 (only run it 24/7 when you are trying to defeat algae. Under normal situations 12 should be more than enough.)
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Nature 2 system on agp

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbarr64
    Short of a water softener resin to remove the Iron, I thought I saw spa/pool refill filters that fit on the end of the garden hose that removed particles and iron from the water.
    The filter might remove sediment, but it won't remove iron. The iron will be in solution - short of possibly using reverse osmosis, you won't be able to get it out with a filter. I'm pretty sure you'd have to use an ion exchange resin to get it out. Best bet would be a sequestrant.
    24' x 52" AGP - approx 13,500 gallons
    Pentair Optiflo 1 hp/2sp pump w/ Swimpro Voyager 150 sq ft cartridge filter
    Intex 8110 SWCG
    "Fear the Schnauz!"

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    Re: Nature 2 system on agp

    I will be ordering my test today. Would we be better off replacing the pump with a 2 speed. Running it 8-10 hrs was costing over $30 a month. It could be we have higher utilities than others. Thanks again for responding so quick.

    Tammy
    I have an AG pool started in the summer of '04 using the Nature 2 cartridge. It is 27' round about 19k gallons. We use a sand filter--cpm 19 with an 1.5 hp pump.

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    Re: Nature 2 system on agp

    A two-speed pump will save energy, yes. The low speed of the pump uses approximately 1/4 the power of the high speed, and the pump is left on the low speed the majority of the time.

    For example, my pump uses 2.9A on low speed, or 11 amps on high speed (a single speed pump should use as much energy as my high speed setting). So, that's .333 kw on low, and 1.265 kw on high. If I ran my pump on high speed for 10 hours a day for 30 days and it cost me $30, then my electric rate would be around 7.9 cents/kwH, if my math's correct.

    1.265kw x 10 hours/day = 12.65kwH/day x 30 days = 379.5 kwH/month.

    3000 cents / 379.5kwH = 7.9 cents/kwh

    I run my pump on low speed 24 x 7, so

    .333kw x 24 hours/day = 7.99 kwH/day x 30 days = 239.70 kwh / month

    239.70 kwh x 7.9 cents / kwh = $18.93 per month.

    So, I can run my pump on low speed 24 x 7 and it's still cheaper than running a single speed for 10 hours a day.
    24' x 52" AGP - approx 13,500 gallons
    Pentair Optiflo 1 hp/2sp pump w/ Swimpro Voyager 150 sq ft cartridge filter
    Intex 8110 SWCG
    "Fear the Schnauz!"

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    Re: Nature 2 system on agp

    Wow i wish i had your Power Company prices..

    Here in NH its about 15 Cents KW (After all the taxes, and fee's).

    My pump runs 2 speeds.. 16 amps / 4 amps.

    16 amps = approx 30 cents hr x 10hrs = $3.00 x 30 days = $90.00.. WOW
    4 amps = approx 7.5 cents hr x 24hrs = $1.80 x 30 days = $54.00 Still WOW..

    (My numbers are approx... Actual price for 4 amps would be $51.84)
    17000 Gallons (16x32) Vinyl In Ground Pool
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    Install "Finish Date" July 30 2014"
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    City Water.

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    Re: Nature 2 system on agp

    Amazing how much the rates vary from state to state, isn't it? I'm not even sure of what my rate is. Guess I need to look at my next electric bill.

    One thing I did forget to mention...you will need to run the pump on high speed every now and again for things like cleaning the pool, so the cost will be more than just running it on low speed alone, but it still should be less than using a single speed pump.

    I've got two single speed pumps in my attic now...hmmm...about time for another garage sale...
    24' x 52" AGP - approx 13,500 gallons
    Pentair Optiflo 1 hp/2sp pump w/ Swimpro Voyager 150 sq ft cartridge filter
    Intex 8110 SWCG
    "Fear the Schnauz!"

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    Re: Nature 2 system on agp

    My test kit came in today and I've been busy testing the water. Here are the results:
    cya - 5 or slightly higher
    ph - 7.6
    cl - 1
    ta - 220
    fc - 1
    cc - .5
    I will wait to get instructions on how to get the TA down. Right now I still have the N2 in place and the chlor tabs. Plan on taking all this out when I hear what to do next.

    Thanks
    Tammy
    I have an AG pool started in the summer of '04 using the Nature 2 cartridge. It is 27' round about 19k gallons. We use a sand filter--cpm 19 with an 1.5 hp pump.

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    Re: Nature 2 system on agp

    Quote Originally Posted by gtrum60
    My test kit came in today and I've been busy testing the water. Here are the results:
    cya - 5 or slightly higher
    ph - 7.6
    cl - 1
    ta - 220
    fc - 1
    cc - .5
    I will wait to get instructions on how to get the TA down. Right now I still have the N2 in place and the chlor tabs. Plan on taking all this out when I hear what to do next.

    Thanks
    Tammy
    Tammy,
    My pool came with the N2...After about a month of listening to Frustratedpoolmom nag me about it I finally gave in and took it off line...I am glad I did. Two reasons...The instructions for use were complicated...And two, you have to replace the cartridge every year...My local Pool Store has it for $90. I was not into paying $90 each year. Just disconnect it. I found it made caring for my pool harder. I have been trouble free for a year now. I would take the N2 off and then get your chlorine levels right...Then someone would be along to help with the TA...I would say get Chlorine up to at least 5 ppm. You would have to check the CYA Chlorine Chart to find out exactly what your FC should be at 50 ppm CYA. Pool Mom has a link to that in her signature line.
    Beave
    Aqua Leader 24ft Round AG Wil-Bar Influence w/54 inch walls 13,500 gallons
    Swimline J-Blue Opal Liner, 1 4X20 Fafco Solar Bear Solar Heater
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    Re: Nature 2 system on agp

    Tammy,
    You want to reduce your pH to 7.0 to 7.2 with muratic acid...once you have done that, you want to aerate your pool with a fountain or lots of splashing. This will then cause your pH to go back up to 7.5-7.6 again, then check you TA if it still is not at proper levels then repeate steps one and two again... See Link
    pool-school/lowering%20total%20alkalinity.

    This should take care of the TA...but as I said I would not hesitate to take the N2 out of the process now...You don't need it...
    Beave
    Aqua Leader 24ft Round AG Wil-Bar Influence w/54 inch walls 13,500 gallons
    Swimline J-Blue Opal Liner, 1 4X20 Fafco Solar Bear Solar Heater
    Hayward 2 HP Swim Pro Voyager Pump Micro 150 with 4 way timer
    Swim Pro Voyager Filtration System with Hayward ABS Pearl wide mouth skimmer

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    Re: Nature 2 system on agp

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkmaster
    Wow i wish i had your Power Company prices..

    Here in NH its about 15 Cents KW (After all the taxes, and fee's).

    My pump runs 2 speeds.. 16 amps / 4 amps.

    16 amps = approx 30 cents hr x 10hrs = $3.00 x 30 days = $90.00.. WOW
    4 amps = approx 7.5 cents hr x 24hrs = $1.80 x 30 days = $54.00 Still WOW..

    (My numbers are approx... Actual price for 4 amps would be $51.84)
    Hydroelectric power in the NW. Electric was 6 cents a kilowatt until the Feds decided to make us compete with out of state (California) companies for it. Now it is 7.5 cents a kilowatt.

    Grants County PUD (wenatchee washington) actually sells electricity at 2 cents a kilowatt for large users and 3 cents to its residential customers!

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Nature 2 system on agp

    Quote Originally Posted by gtrum60
    My test kit came in today and I've been busy testing the water. Here are the results:
    cya - 5 or slightly higher
    ph - 7.6
    cl - 1
    ta - 220
    fc - 1
    cc - .5
    I will wait to get instructions on how to get the TA down. Right now I still have the N2 in place and the chlor tabs. Plan on taking all this out when I hear what to do next.

    Thanks
    Tammy
    So you did some draining? Is that CYA level 50? Bump your FC up the appropriate level - refer to the CYA chart. You never want to let your FC drop below 4 or you risk algae. So you add enough bleach each night after testing the FC to reach the target of 6, and that way during the next day it should stay above 4. Hope that makes sense.

    The TA test - there have been reports of inconsistent drops due to static - it might be good for you to repeat the test and wipe the bottle tips with a damp cloth between drops. If you get the same result, then you can lower the TA thru Acid/Aeration - read about that here.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Nature 2 system on agp

    We sure did some draining. The CYA was really between 5-6. What should I do first the acid and how much at a time or adding bleach? And is this bleach from the store? I'm not sure how much to buy. Thanks for your support in removing the N2 change is never easy I just hope better.

    Tammy
    I have an AG pool started in the summer of '04 using the Nature 2 cartridge. It is 27' round about 19k gallons. We use a sand filter--cpm 19 with an 1.5 hp pump.

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