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Thread: help with what to add now

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    help with what to add now

    We just got test results from pool store and here they are.
    TC - 10.0
    FC - 10.0
    PH - 6.0
    TA - 20
    CH - 200
    Stabilizer - 0
    Above is the printout results from the pool store. Does stabilizer mean the same thing as CYA? Because they didn't tell me what the CYA was. They had me add 50lbs 0f their akalinity product. (I know, we should have just used baking soda. Believe me I fussed because I wasn't the one that took the water to the pool place and bought expensive pool products) But thats already been done. So the akalinity should increase by tommorrow. But they told me to add 8lbs of shock tommorrow and then another 8lbs the day after. I tried to use the pool calc to figure out how much bleach to use instead of shock but couldn't get it to work. So help please...... What and how much to I add now??
    I'm sorry but I don't have a reliable test kit yet. But I will try to get one soon.
    vinyl IG 18x36 HP pump sand filter

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    Re: help with what to add now

    Your pH is very low and should be raised first. Low pH water can damage your equipment and liner. Next you can address your low TA. Aim for 80 to start with and go from there. Next, you need some CYA...stabilizer...conditioner...all are the same. Use the poolcalc to dose. Finally, your chlorine is fine and you do not need to add.

    Next is to get a good kit and post some follow-up numbers. Trust the poolcalc and information that you get here and you can save your trips to the poolstore.
    25,000 gal IG Utopia pool/Raypack gas heater/BBB

  3. Back To Top    #3
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: help with what to add now

    Yes, stabilizer and CYA are two names for the same thing. You should raise your CYA level to at least 30 as soon as practical.

    You need to get your PH to be at least up to 7.0 as soon as possible. Since raising TA also changes the PH, you need a new PH test result to know how much chemical to use.

    What are you using for a chlorine source?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: help with what to add now

    Quote Originally Posted by 007
    We just got test results from pool store and here they are.
    TC - 10.0
    FC - 10.0
    PH - 6.0
    TA - 20
    CH - 200
    Stabilizer - 0
    Above is the printout results from the pool store. Does stabilizer mean the same thing as CYA? Because they didn't tell me what the CYA was. They had me add 50lbs 0f their akalinity product. (I know, we should have just used baking soda. Believe me I fussed because I wasn't the one that took the water to the pool place and bought expensive pool products) But thats already been done. So the akalinity should increase by tommorrow. But they told me to add 8lbs of shock tommorrow and then another 8lbs the day after. I tried to use the pool calc to figure out how much bleach to use instead of shock but couldn't get it to work. So help please...... What and how much to I add now??
    I'm sorry but I don't have a reliable test kit yet. But I will try to get one soon.
    We'll do our best to help, I know it can be overwhelming.

    Did you add all 50 lbs? It's probably too much. How many gallons is your pool? I calculated almost 22,000 gallons because you don't list a depth?

    If you added all 50 lbs your TA is probably going to end up near the 170 range, based on 22,000 gallons. Please have it retested, along with the PH. Unfortunately alk increaser won't do much to your PH - which is too low - and they should have had you increase PH first.

    Because now, any product you add to raise the PH will also raise the TA. Since the TA will be on the high end from the chem addition, you don't want that. The only way to raise PH without increasing the TA is to aerate the pool. A fountain, waterfall....use the google search feature in the bottom left corner for ideas on homemade aeration ideas.

    But aeration alone will take too long and you need to increase the PH now. Use Borax or Washing Soda.

    Here's how the Pool Calc works....you enter your pool gallons in the top left "size" box.

    In the "now" column you enter your test results.... in the "target" column you enter your goal.

    So you need to retest the TA and PH. For PH, enter 7.0 for the target. Then you hit Calculate, and it will tell you how much Borax or Washing soda to add. ASAP, start aerating the water. At the very least point your eyeball returns (if you have them) towards the surface so the bubbles break the surface. Fountains/splashing are better....The PH will rise from the aeration, and the amount of PH increasing product you need will be less.

    Stop aerating when the ph is at 7.6.

    What color is your water? Your FC is fine where it is, you don't need to shock UNLESS your water is green/you have algae. For now, for general chlorine purposes, you need to add 1 small jug of 6% bleach each night until you get some CYA in there. This will keep your FC between 1-3.

    Without CYA you will lose this FC to sunlight, so add the CYA soon. You have a sand filter, so I would target your CYA at 50, as backwashing over the season will lower it slowly. You should add about 8 lbs, about 1 lb at a time, and if you need instructions on how to add it, let us know.

    Hope this helps, I know its a lot to take in and I hope you are not confused with the advice. Any clarification you need just holler.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: help with what to add now

    I used the pool calculator to try to figure how much borax to add for my PH problem and it said 1375 oz by weight or 1318 oz by volume. I don't think this could be right. Because a large box of Borax is 74 oz. And it cost about $34.00. So the pool calc tells me I need about 18 boxes??? Something is not right. The pool store recommends 10 lbs of stabalizer for the problem at $15.00 per 5 lbs. So please help set me straight........ By the way my pool is about 30,0000 gallons.
    Thanks!!!
    vinyl IG 18x36 HP pump sand filter

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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: help with what to add now

    Hold the phone, I cannot get the Pool Calc to work for me. May be on my end. Will PM Jason.
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
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    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: help with what to add now

    You need to get new PH and TA readings before tying to calculate the amount of borax to add. The chemical you added to raise the TA will have completely changed things since the last set of results you posted.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: help with what to add now

    I will retest this evening. But my question is the figures that the pool calc gave me are they wrong? How much Borax would I need if the readings were as is?
    vinyl IG 18x36 HP pump sand filter

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: help with what to add now

    Given your dimensions, it seems unlikely that your pool can really contain 30,000 gallons. None the less, using 30,000 gallons, a starting PH of 6.0, a Target PH of 7.5, TA of 20, and Borates of 0, you should be getting 409 oz by weight of borax.

    You would get 1375 oz by weight if you left the current TA at 100. The higher the TA, the more chemical it takes to shift the PH. Entering your current TA and borate levels is important.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: help with what to add now

    FWIW....I have an 18 x 36 pool and filled with truck water at 25,000 gal....you may want to underestimate your volume to prevent overdose...
    25,000 gal IG Utopia pool/Raypack gas heater/BBB

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    Re: help with what to add now

    Quote Originally Posted by 007
    I used the pool calculator to try to figure how much borax to add for my PH problem and it said 1375 oz by weight or 1318 oz by volume. I don't think this could be right. Because a large box of Borax is 74 oz. And it cost about $34.00. So the pool calc tells me I need about 18 boxes??? Something is not right. The pool store recommends 10 lbs of stabalizer for the problem at $15.00 per 5 lbs. So please help set me straight........ By the way my pool is about 30,0000 gallons.
    Thanks!!!
    borax at local grocery store is $2.50 for a 4 pound box
    25,000 gal IG Utopia pool/Raypack gas heater/BBB

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: help with what to add now

    Quote Originally Posted by 007
    The pool store recommends 10 lbs of stabalizer for the problem at $15.00 per 5 lbs.
    For 25,000 gallons, 10 lbs of CYA will raise your level to 50. Add about 2 lbs at a time, put it in a sock and set it in the skimmer (don't block the water flow) and leave the filter running until the CYA completely dissolves, repeating the addition until all 10 lbs are added and dissolved. Leave the filter running for an additional 12 hours... retest the CYA in about 5 days, but assume each day the CYA is going up and increase your FC according to the CYA chart. Hope that makes sense.

    Keep us updated on the PH/TA, and we'll give you better advice. You need to determine the correct gallon size of your pool so we can help you target your dosing accurately.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: help with what to add now

    Here are my new test results just using my basic home pool test kit.
    Chlorine - 6.o
    PH - 7.5
    TA - 90
    My pool is still very green since as I explained before we left uncovered during winter. I have already used quite a bit of bleach before adding the akalinity stuff the pool store recommended. They told me to add 8lbs of shock also in the next 2 days. Which I haven't done because the chlorine was already so high in my water. But now I need to know if I should shock? And if so can I just use bleach to kill the green? I have been backwashing and adding new water a couple of times a day. My neighbor who has a pool tells me to just add some kind of mustard algae killer. What do you think about that? I am sorry I don't have better test results but this is the
    best I have to work with at the moment. And I really need advice quick. We want to get the pool clear as soon as possible. Its almost swimming weather in Georgia!!!
    vinyl IG 18x36 HP pump sand filter

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: help with what to add now

    Quote Originally Posted by 007
    Here are my new test results just using my basic home pool test kit.
    Chlorine - 6.o
    PH - 7.5
    TA - 90
    My pool is still very green since as I explained before we left uncovered during winter. I have already used quite a bit of bleach before adding the akalinity stuff the pool store recommended. They told me to add 8lbs of shock also in the next 2 days. Which I haven't done because the chlorine was already so high in my water. But now I need to know if I should shock? And if so can I just use bleach to kill the green? I have been backwashing and adding new water a couple of times a day. My neighbor who has a pool tells me to just add some kind of mustard algae killer. What do you think about that? I am sorry I don't have better test results but this is the
    best I have to work with at the moment. And I really need advice quick. We want to get the pool clear as soon as possible. Its almost swimming weather in Georgia!!!
    Assuming the results are accurate, the PH and TA are good.

    Edit:

    How many gallons is your pool? Did you determine the correct amount? Because this makes a big difference when dosing.

    Your chlorine is not high. You will not kill your algae with your chlorine at 6. You need it to HOLD at 10, assuming your CYA is still zero. If the CYA was added, your shock level is higher.

    Did you add the CYA as instructed? If so how much did you add and when did you add it?

    No, you don't need mustard algae killer, bleach-and plenty of it- will do the trick.

    Did you buy the 8 lbs of shock from the pool store? What does it say on the ingredient label?

    End Edit.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: help with what to add now

    You can't add some chlorine and then wait two days. That doesn't work. The algae just grows right back.

    How are you measuring the chlorine level? Does the test you are using distinguish between free chlorine (FC) and combined chlorine (CC)? If it doesn't then you are probably seeing a high CC level, which doesn't help kill algae.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: help with what to add now

    I think my pool is actually 26,000 gallons (its 3ft in shallow and 8ft in deep) I didn't add the stabalizer. As I said I am using a basic home test kit. You just add the drops into the water to test. So I assume it just measures the regular chlorine level. I will take water to the store tommorrow to get better results. If the pool store still suggests stabalizer and shock should I just use Borax and bleach?
    vinyl IG 18x36 HP pump sand filter

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: help with what to add now

    Quote Originally Posted by 007
    I think my pool is actually 26,000 gallons (its 3ft in shallow and 8ft in deep) I didn't add the stabalizer. As I said I am using a basic home test kit. You just add the drops into the water to test. So I assume it just measures the regular chlorine level. I will take water to the store tommorrow to get better results. If the pool store still suggests stabalizer and shock should I just use Borax and bleach?
    No. Borax and Stabilizer are two different things. You need Cyanuric Acid or Stabilizer which helps prevent your FC from being destroyed by sunlight. Borax is a PH increaser (among other things that you don't need to worry about right now).

    Did you buy the bags of shock, and what do they say on the label? IS IT DICHLOR? Or is it Calcium Hypochlorite? I am asking this for a reason...

    I wouldn't worry about what the Pool Store suggests. Just have them test the water and buy maybe buy some CYA -Stabilizer from them. But answer my question about the shock bags first. Did you buy it already?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  18. Back To Top    #18
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: help with what to add now

    The standard OTO test kit, drops added to the sample turns yellow which is compared to a color standard, only reads total chlorine (TC) which is FC + CC. If your CC level is high, quite possible when fighting algae, your FC level can be zero and the OTO test will still show lots of chlorine. Yet, the FC level can actually be zero and the algae can be growing all it wants.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: help with what to add now

    I didn't buy the shock. I will use bleach instead as long as you don't think I will need more than about 15 jugs of it. How much to you think I will need to get it right?
    vinyl IG 18x36 HP pump sand filter

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: help with what to add now

    Quote Originally Posted by 007
    I didn't buy the shock. I will use bleach instead as long as you don't think I will need more than about 15 jugs of it. How much to you think I will need to get it right?
    There is no way to predict how much bleach you will need to buy, I'm sorry.

    If you can find 10-12.5% chlorine, perhaps at the Pool Store for around $3 a gallon, that is a good buy and I would recommend you start off with 4 of them. If you go with 6% Clorox or similar store brand (NOT dollar store bleach) A good idea would be 10 small jugs to start, if you can find the large jugs 174 oz that is usually a good price - Wal-mart store brand large jugs run about $2.54.

    The reason I asked about the bags of shock, is since your CYA is zero, and there are powder shock bags that have the active ingredient "Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetirone" (we call it Dichlor) which will add CYA too. In your current situation, adding CYA is required.

    So if you put in 4 bags of dichlor, it will raise your FC to 10, your shock level, and it should raise your CYA by 9.

    If you were use 8 bags like the pool store recommended, especially all at once, your FC would be too high, and this could risk damaging your liner. But, if you add the 4 bags incrementally, 4 at first, and then the others as needed based on your then-current FC level - your CYA should end up some where around 20. Ideally you want it to be 30-50. You have to test your FC in between shock additions, to know how many bags of Dichlor to add at a time. This is not something you want to dump an run, because you could harm your pool or end up with too high CYA.

    I belive it would be cheaper if you found the CYA seperately, and used bleach. But there is the attractiveness of convenience in this case of just using the Dichlor.

    Should use choose the bleach/CYA route, the first place I would check for the CYA is Wal-mart or a similar big box store that has pool supplies, you may need to ask an employee where their pool department is located in the store, don't be surprised if they are out, however, everyone is opening their pools now...

    Or purchase CYA from the pool store. But you HAVE to have it, before you begin shocking your pool, otherwise your FC will be destroyed by the sun and will have very little effect on the algae.

    Hope this makes sense?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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