10 Day Old IC-40 Just Went Dark

[Brushman]

It's only one side leaking, right? You could swap the o-rings, one end to the other, to see if it's the o-ring or not.

Right Dirk, only one side leaking. I’ve put two new OEM o-rings on that leaking side so far but no improvement. It’s either my lube and seating technique (which has never been an issue before over the last 12 years) or how I am tightening the cell, which likewise has never been an issue before in the roughly dozen times I’ve removed and re-installed cells over the last 12 years. The only thing that might be different is I tried to hand tighten to the max I could manage. Weird for me to think that I could be over tightening but maybe. I’ll get home and give it another go this afternoon. Thanks guys.

 

[Brushman]

I am trying to understand how over-tightening by hand can cause a leak -- what happens that's not good?

 

[ajw22]

I am trying to understand how over-tightening by hand can cause a leak -- what happens that's not good?

Over tightening by whatever means causes the O ring to bulge out and not seal properly. The O ring should create the seal against the surfaces, not being cinched down.

 

[Dirk]

+1 ^^^

 

[Dirk]

If you use a moderate amount of lube, and hand tighten, then torque another 1/8 turn (with towel or tool), and you get a leak, then you're not doing it wrong. Especially if you've tried multiple o-rings.

The reason I suggested the o-ring swop is just a matter of thorough trouble-shooting. If you have an o-ring that you know to be working (the other one), that you installed, and then swap that into the leaking side, using the same technique, and still get a leak, then it is not the o-ring and not your technique.

That would point to a crack you haven't found (or can't see), or a deformation in one or both sealing surfaces.

Are you sure you have the correct size o-ring?

When you hold the two surfaces together, without the o-ring, do you see any obvious gaps?

I was going to suggest this earlier, but then erased it. It is totally radical and untested and I'm not sure it wouldn't ruin your flow switch, or your SWG. Use at your own risk, after you've ruled out everything else! You could unplug the SWG and then flip it around, 180°. If the leak swapped, then it's a deformation in the SWG. If the leak stays on the same side, then there's something wrong with the union.

But, again, I cannot confirm or deny this would work, or ruin your SWG or at least it's flow switch. If it works, I'm a genius, if not, we never met...

@ajw22, @Newdude, is that too crazy?

 

[Dirk]

Did you examine the two sealing surfaces with a magnifying glass? You'd be looking for a lump of something that wouldn't come loose by just rubbing it with a cloth (or the Q-tip you're not supposed to use). Or a crack.

 

[ajw22]

I was going to suggest this earlier, but then erased it. It is totally radical and untested and I'm not sure it wouldn't ruin your flow switch, or your SWG. Use at your own risk, after you've ruled out everything else! You could unplug the SWG and then flip it around, 180°. If the leak swapped, then it's a deformation in the SWG. If the leak stays on the same side, then there's something wrong with the union.

But, again, I cannot confirm or deny this would work, or ruin your SWG or at least it's flow switch. If it works, I'm a genius, if not, we never met...

@ajw22, @Newdude, is that too crazy?

It can be fine for a quick leak test. I would turn down the SWG, before removing the cell, to 0% so it does not generate.

 

[newdude]

, is that too crazy?

I suggested the exact same thing for a circupool edge with the same issue.

IIRC the flow switch was external though. It's certainly worth a thought and if the drips can't be fixed, it may be the option left. At worst, flow switches are cheap in the grand scheme of things. Or it survives.

 

[ajw22]

Or it survives.

Folks have installed the IntelliChlor cells backwards and they sort of worked and the flow switch survived when they flipped it back the correct way.

 

[Lake Placid]

Backside as in the video leads me to believe the flange that is welded on the to pvc pipe has developed a leak. O-ring failure woukd present more than likely on the SWG side of the union. Pull the SWG, slip the nut back from the joint as far as you can and inspect the weld between the pipe and the flange. Look for areas where there may be gaps in the weld, or cracks. Does the front side of the flange have any cracks on the inside of the o-ring groove? Is the union nut cracked? A hairline crack in the nut the opens under tension could be possible and would prevent a good seal.

 

[Lake Placid]

Is the side that’s leaking the side nearest the heater? I see the 180 degree check and assume the heater is just the other side of that?

 

[Dirk]

I would turn down the SWG, before removing the cell, to 0% so it does not generate.

Or just unplug it so it can't do anything.

 

[Brushman]

Did you examine the two sealing surfaces with a magnifying glass? You'd be looking for a lump of something that wouldn't come loose by just rubbing it with a cloth (or the Q-tip you're not supposed to use). Or a crack.

Because of my installation I took pictures instead and blew them up on my computer. Not ideal but unfortunately, getting a magnifying glass and then a human head into the correct potion to view that tangle of piping at the correct angle would be almost impossible.

 

[Brushman]

It can be fine for a quick leak test. I would turn down the SWG, before removing the cell, to 0% so it does not generate.

That's good stuff.

 

[Brushman]

Backside as in the video leads me to believe the flange that is welded on the to pvc pipe has developed a leak. O-ring failure woukd present more than likely on the SWG side of the union. Pull the SWG, slip the nut back from the joint as far as you can and inspect the weld between the pipe and the flange. Look for areas where there may be gaps in the weld, or cracks. Does the front side of the flange have any cracks on the inside of the o-ring groove? Is the union nut cracked? A hairline crack in the nut the opens under tension could be possible and would prevent a good seal.

The crack theory would also be consistent with this observation -- each time I dismount and remount the cell, the leak gets a little bit worse.

 

[Brushman]

Is the side that’s leaking the side nearest the heater? I see the 180 degree check and assume the heater is just the other side of that?

Yes the side that's leaking is the side nearest the heater, I'll take a step back picture to give a better view of the plumbing. The heater was installed two years after the pool went in which explains its elevated position. There wasn't enough room on the ground floor.

 

[Brushman]

Helpful stuff all around guys, many thanks. It seems like the next step is to power down the cell, rotate it 180 degrees and do a short run in that position to see if the leak travels.

If it travels, that will point to a possible defect in the mating surface of the cell which looks and feels normal. I'll double check that more carefully with a magnifying glass this morning, before doing the 180 degree rotation, since the cell can be pulled out in a way that will allow for enhanced inspection.

If the leak stays on the same side despite the rotation, especially since three new o-rings have been seated there since the drip that keeps getting worse first appeared, that will most likely point to a PVC / Cell Union Coupler leak.

 

[Brushman]

Backside as in the video leads me to believe the flange that is welded on the to pvc pipe has developed a leak. O-ring failure would present more than likely on the SWG side of the union.

I suspected that was true but didn't know. We'll see what the flip test shows. Thanks LP.

 

[Brushman]

Flip test shows the leak does NOT travel.

 

[Brushman]

Did you examine the two sealing surfaces with a magnifying glass? You'd be looking for a lump of something ... or a crack.

When I pulled the SWG for the flip test, I brought out a magnifying glass and inspected the mating surface on the leaking end of the SWG (the end opposite the switch) before flipping it 180 degrees. That's brand new and has been carefully handled. That surface was perfect and there were no cracks visible anywhere on the SWG. Yesterday I had carefully cleaned the o-ring channel on the leaking side with a lint free towel and installed a third brand new, carefully inspected and appropriately lubed OEM o-ring into the cell union coupler on the side that has been leaking. After rotation, the side that has been leaking continued to leak. The side that has been dry continued to be dry.