If the returns and main drains are capped basically all pipes are still capped from pressure testing I'd say you're safe as long as the pressure testing never involved water.
1.5 Years after Dig Day, Our Builder Quit!
- Thread starter sll0037
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- Nov 12, 2017
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Ah, you beat me to it. I've never seen this done, but my question would have been: did they pressure test with water, or air? If the pipes are only filled with air, then the OP should be fine.
My second question would have been: when they pressure test with air, could there still be some water in the pipes (which could have gotten inside the plumbing in any number of ways)?
Mine, in Georgia, were pressurized with water. A leak with water pressurization is easy to find, air, not so much.
- May 23, 2015
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All pool plumbing should be tested with water, air is not useful for pressure testing.
To the OP - I would do my best to drain the system of water and blow it out with air if at all possible. Then I would cover all exposed pipes with heavy tarp/blanket and put standard 100W light bulb contractor lamps under the tarps. For the pipes sticking out of the gunite you could go get some think foam pipe insulation and wrap them up.
Then just hope for the best ….
This is why TFP recommends against winter pool builds. It’s too fraught with problems. Even in my area where our freezes don’t last long, it’s still just a bad idea and yet I see contractors building pools all the time. 99% of the time it works out fine but that 1% can be a real doozy.
To the OP - I would do my best to drain the system of water and blow it out with air if at all possible. Then I would cover all exposed pipes with heavy tarp/blanket and put standard 100W light bulb contractor lamps under the tarps. For the pipes sticking out of the gunite you could go get some think foam pipe insulation and wrap them up.
Then just hope for the best ….
This is why TFP recommends against winter pool builds. It’s too fraught with problems. Even in my area where our freezes don’t last long, it’s still just a bad idea and yet I see contractors building pools all the time. 99% of the time it works out fine but that 1% can be a real doozy.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,691
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Seems like they should be tested under the conditions they'll be used. But are they ever tested with air? I thought I read about that here once.
Temperature can affect the air pressure, so you have to take the temperature into consideration.
Also, air is compressible and that can be more dangerous if something was to come loose.
Also, air is compressible and that can be more dangerous if something was to come loose.
For every 10 degrees increase in temperature, your air pressure will increase by approximately 1 psi.
Conversely, for every 10 degrees drop in temperature, your air pressure will decrease by approximately 1 psi.
Note: This assumes a starting pressure of about 40 psi gauge pressure at 76 degrees Fahrenheit..
www.wolframalpha.com
At a 20 psi starting gauge pressure, the pressure will drop or increase about 0.65 psi per 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
Conversely, for every 10 degrees drop in temperature, your air pressure will decrease by approximately 1 psi.
Note: This assumes a starting pressure of about 40 psi gauge pressure at 76 degrees Fahrenheit..
y = (0.18379369((X − 32) × 5/9 + 273.15)) - 14.6959, y from 35 to 45 - Wolfram|Alpha
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At a 20 psi starting gauge pressure, the pressure will drop or increase about 0.65 psi per 10 degrees Fahrenheit.
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The pressure test was done with water.
Since everything is sealed/capped, I’d imagine it’ll be hard to blow out the plumbing lines.
Since everything is sealed/capped, I’d imagine it’ll be hard to blow out the plumbing lines.
- May 23, 2015
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Sometimes air or CO2 will be used for leak detection purposes but that’s usually in existing plumbing. For a new pool build, water should always be used to test so you can easily spot leaks. This should be done at multiple stages - before gunite, after gunite, final equipment install. What is actually done in a build is determined by the competency of the builder and the persistence of the home owner.
For a natural gas line, air should used for leak detection.
- May 23, 2015
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Ask the builder what to do. They are responsible for plumbing and they should be aware that hard freezes are in the forecast.
- Nov 12, 2017
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Ah, right. If air is used, the needle would be moving around all day, revealing nothing useful.
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- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,691
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I started to type something similar earlier, that the builder should be involved. And he should be. He really should be handling all of this, as he is ultimately responsible for all aspects of the build at this point, including weather damage and/or mitigation.
But then I didn't, because he could do a half-baked job of protecting your pipes, or worse, just blow it off with a "Ah, it'll be fine. Don't worry."
The problem with that is the possibility of damage that doesn't show up right away. For example, a weakened glue joint that still holds pressure, but eventually gives out some months/years later, after all the deck is poured and the landscaping is in. Who's going to eat that? (We know who!!)
So you really should involve the builder, so he doesn't later have a reason or excuse to get out of fixing something, but you're going to have to watch what he does and demand he do it the way you want.
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If you use absolute temperature and pressure, you can figure out the formula to see the expected change in pressure when using air for a pressure test.
For example, if the pressure is 20 psi at 76 degrees, then you convert the temperature to 297.594°K and the pressure to 34.6959 psi.
(76°F − 32) × 5/9 + 273.15 = 297.594K.
14.6959 psi + 20 psi = 34.6959
P1/T1 = P2/T2
Y = Pressure in psi.
X = Temperature in °F.
y = (0.11658803604((X − 32) × 5/9 + 273.15)) - 14.6959
At 120°F, you get 22.85 psi.
At 76°F, you get 20.00 psi.
At 66°F, you get 19.35 psi.
At 32°F, you get 17.15 psi.
At 0°F, you get 15.08 psi.
y = (0.11658803604((X − 32) × 5/9 + 273.15)) - 14.6959, y from 15 to 25 - Wolfram|Alpha
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8.2: Relating Pressure, Volume, Amount, and Temperature: The Ideal Gas Law | General College Chemistry I
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- May 23, 2015
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Hate to revive my old build thread, but our builder officially quit our job today by sending me an email stating all pending work would not be completed and to contact his lawyer moving forward.
Yep, that's right. 1.5 years after our initial dig day, not much has gotten done beyond gunite.
Much of 2024 was lost after the gunite cured as the builder showed little to no desire to start the next steps in the build process. To make matters worse, I fell extremely ill in March of 2024 that knocked me completely out for a couple of months. Once I recovered, catching up on lost time with a demanding job and two toddlers at home left me with little time or energy to chase our builder down.
September 2024 we reached back out to the builder to find out if they planned to honor our contract and complete our project. That meeting went well, but even with materials (coping, tile, stone, pavers, drains, firepit, outdoor kitchen appliances) on site in December 2024, the builder got little to nothing done in the 6 months since. 90% of our coping is done and 30% of our tile is done... nothing else. Not one thing.
Continuous follow-up with the builder led to little to no progress or explanations as to why or what to expect moving forward.
And so, our worst nightmare is now a reality. I don't really know where to go from here.
Our desire and intent has always been to be patient and work with our builder, but that journey is over.
If anyone has any advice for how to navigate our current situation, I'd be forever grateful.
Anyone local to DFW with referrals or contacts who can help finish our build or from a legal aspect communicate with our current builder, please let me know.
Yep, that's right. 1.5 years after our initial dig day, not much has gotten done beyond gunite.
Much of 2024 was lost after the gunite cured as the builder showed little to no desire to start the next steps in the build process. To make matters worse, I fell extremely ill in March of 2024 that knocked me completely out for a couple of months. Once I recovered, catching up on lost time with a demanding job and two toddlers at home left me with little time or energy to chase our builder down.
September 2024 we reached back out to the builder to find out if they planned to honor our contract and complete our project. That meeting went well, but even with materials (coping, tile, stone, pavers, drains, firepit, outdoor kitchen appliances) on site in December 2024, the builder got little to nothing done in the 6 months since. 90% of our coping is done and 30% of our tile is done... nothing else. Not one thing.
Continuous follow-up with the builder led to little to no progress or explanations as to why or what to expect moving forward.
And so, our worst nightmare is now a reality. I don't really know where to go from here.
Our desire and intent has always been to be patient and work with our builder, but that journey is over.
If anyone has any advice for how to navigate our current situation, I'd be forever grateful.
Anyone local to DFW with referrals or contacts who can help finish our build or from a legal aspect communicate with our current builder, please let me know.
Make sure that everything that has been dropped off for the pool is behind closed and locked doors/gates so he can't come get any of it.
The next thing to do is take a deep breath and let it out. Once that is done start calling around to find a new pool builder to get your pool done.
OR you can take on the task of being the general contractor of your pool. Find the trades to do the rest of your pool. It may take a bit of work and time on your end but it may pay off in the long run. Do you know who as in the company that was doing the tile and such? Drive around in your area to see if there are any active builds going on. Stop and take to the trades making sure you have a note pad to take notes on to compare to what others have to say.
HUGS to you and yours during this sad time.
The next thing to do is take a deep breath and let it out. Once that is done start calling around to find a new pool builder to get your pool done.
OR you can take on the task of being the general contractor of your pool. Find the trades to do the rest of your pool. It may take a bit of work and time on your end but it may pay off in the long run. Do you know who as in the company that was doing the tile and such? Drive around in your area to see if there are any active builds going on. Stop and take to the trades making sure you have a note pad to take notes on to compare to what others have to say.
HUGS to you and yours during this sad time.
So sorry to hear of all your unfortunate issues both personal and with the pool.
With regards to legal, it would be good to contact a lawyer. Determine if you are out any money- compare what you have paid vs what work is completed and what equipment you physically have on site.
Some PB may take on the job to finish but may not warranty the gunite shell, only the work they complete.
Taking on the role of GC would save some money but will be more work on your part to organize.
With regards to legal, it would be good to contact a lawyer. Determine if you are out any money- compare what you have paid vs what work is completed and what equipment you physically have on site.
Some PB may take on the job to finish but may not warranty the gunite shell, only the work they complete.
Taking on the role of GC would save some money but will be more work on your part to organize.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,786
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I would second the thought to talk with a lawyer. At the very least you need to review the contract for what is required in termination, how much money you are out, AND most importantly, sending a final termination notice that clearly lays out that the contract is terminated and that no more monies are owed. You don’t want this person turning around and putting a mechanics lien on your home/property that you then have to fight to get removed. Have your lawyer contact his lawyer and make sure all the financials are settled.
As stated above, you can finish the job yourself but you’re going to need lots of time to do it. If you can track down the subs that did the plumbing and gunite work, they should warranty the work they did and they can point you to the other subs they know that can do the work that is yet to be completed.
As stated above, you can finish the job yourself but you’re going to need lots of time to do it. If you can track down the subs that did the plumbing and gunite work, they should warranty the work they did and they can point you to the other subs they know that can do the work that is yet to be completed.