HELP - The house we bought has major issues - Old vinyl liner, massive leak, wall heave / bowing - How can we fix it, and what do we do?

johnp98 · May 1, 2025

Hello all!

We have just moved into a house with a new 16x34 ft in-ground pool with a vinyl liner.
We live in Canada so there was significant amounts of snow and ice, so we could not fully examine the pool before buying the house. We knew that the vinyl liner was quite old, and needed to be replaced, yet we have some new unanticipated findings and are hoping to get advice.

Obviously, hindsight is 20:20, and I should have known better and should have put significantly more conditions on the house needing a properly functioning pool in the spring, yet I'm just trying to focus on the future and trying to get as much advice as possible.

THE PROBLEM - Vinyl liner, massive leak, wall heave:
The vinyl pool liner is also very brittle and has cracked and is floating in some areas. So certainly the liner needs to be replaced asap.

It sounds like there is a large patch on the deep end where an old main drain was patched over and probably not properly sealed. When I started vacuuming all the leaves, there is now a very substantial leak! The water level is decreasing by approximately 1 ft per day! Our sub-pump in our house has been going off every few hours because the water is draining into the collection reservoir.

The concrete pad is not connected to the pool or the coping and so the two are independent which apparently is more common in older pools? Two walls are starting to heave and is approximately 2" displaced forward from the concrete pad of the pool. Therefore, it's impossible to know when the wall has started to heave from the concrete pad above and if this is an ongoing issue as it could have occurred very recently or potentially has been stable for many, many years like this.

WHAT SHOULD I CONSIDER?
I guess now that we have noticed these issues it's easy for my mind to wander and think what else could be wrong with the pool.
There are some larger trees in our neighbor's yards and so with the numerous patches that have occurred over the years, I do wonder if potentially trees could be causing issues themselves.
Probably it is just the prior owners just patching things and not dealing with the issues as they came up.

SOLUTIONS?
We have three local pool companies coming out in the next two days and one company that is already come out and recommended that we replace the vinyl liner, which makes sense.
They also said because the concrete of the deck is not attached to the coping or the steel wall that the deck should be demolished and poured again and connected to bullnose coping. He said he would do this to add structure and support to the walls so they don't heave in more. Sound reasonable?
They also said they would put in braces and frames in the areas where it is heaved forward. I believe they were called x-frames but I can't recall the specifics. He did not give a price point on this as it depends what it looks like and how involved it will be.
Right now I have a quote as follows (in Canada): vinyl liner $7,500, remove and pour concrete $8,500, bullnosed coping $2,000, and then replacing the skimmer basket, and some odds and ends and the the total is $22k + whatever bracing is needed. The timeline would be 3 months away before they can do it.

QUESTIONS:
1) How dangerous and bad is it that the pool is going to be draining near the basement, and the sub pump is going off?

2) Once the water has completed draining out of the pool, depending on where the water table level is, would it be bad to rip out the very old and brittle vinyl liner and see what is behind it?
I'm very interested to see the bottom of the pool and so if the water table and water level does not allow me to fully access and visualize the bottom of the pool canI pump it off visualize it and then refill water back to the water table level or would that be dangerous for the structure of the pool?

3) There was also talk of demolishing the concrete deck, and then I could dig down by the seams where it is starting to heave to try to relieve some of the pressure until the work can actually be done.
Right now we have 2x6s bracing the pool, which can be seen in the photos. Does this look adequate or should I add more? Or do you think this is overkill?

4) How ridiculous would it be to just replace the vinyl liner and then follow along and see if the wall starts to move or heave at all in the future? (and thus not touch the concrete pad that is independent)

5) Would the bulnose coping provide enough structural support to prevent heaving in the future?
Should I be worried about the bulnose coping failing sometime in the future and then needing to replace the patio concrete again?

6) Also, how much is time of the essence in terms of fixing this? The prior quote is for September. We won't be moving into the house because of other renovations, so we wouldn't miss out on a pool season as we have our current house has pool, but I don't love the idea of having a completely empty pool sitting there for numerous months. Someone said they probably have availability in the next month or so. How much of a price premium should we be paying for this?

7) How much of this work do you think we could do by ourselves (as if it's just elbow grease a jackhammer, wheelbarrows, Etc I would be comfortable if we are bringing down the cost)?
Anything else that I should be asking the future pool people in terms of input and pricing and ideas?

Okay, that is probably way too many questions, but as you can tell, my mind has been racing, and I certainly would love any ideas for input or advice or what to be asking the other pool places.

Certainly, I can provide more information and clarification if needed.
I will take you along on this ride as I go through it.
Certainly a stressful and memorable ride, and hopefully not too ridiculously expensive.

Bperry · May 1, 2025

johnp98 said:
Hello all!

We have just moved into a house with a new 16x34 ft in-ground pool with a vinyl liner.
We live in Canada so there was significant amounts of snow and ice, so we could not fully examine the pool before buying the house. We knew that the vinyl liner was quite old, and needed to be replaced, yet we have some new unanticipated findings and are hoping to get advice.

Obviously, hindsight is 20:20, and I should have known better and should have put significantly more conditions on the house needing a properly functioning pool in the spring, yet I'm just trying to focus on the future and trying to get as much advice as possible.

THE PROBLEM - Vinyl liner, massive leak, wall heave:
The vinyl pool liner is also very brittle and has cracked and is floating in some areas. So certainly the liner needs to be replaced asap.

It sounds like there is a large patch on the deep end where an old main drain was patched over and probably not properly sealed. When I started vacuuming all the leaves, there is now a very substantial leak! The water level is decreasing by approximately 1 ft per day! Our sub-pump in our house has been going off every few hours because the water is draining into the collection reservoir.

The concrete pad is not connected to the pool or the coping and so the two are independent which apparently is more common in older pools? Two walls are starting to heave and is approximately 2" displaced forward from the concrete pad of the pool. Therefore, it's impossible to know when the wall has started to heave from the concrete pad above and if this is an ongoing issue as it could have occurred very recently or potentially has been stable for many, many years like this.

WHAT SHOULD I CONSIDER?
I guess now that we have noticed these issues it's easy for my mind to wander and think what else could be wrong with the pool.
There are some larger trees in our neighbor's yards and so with the numerous patches that have occurred over the years, I do wonder if potentially trees could be causing issues themselves.
Probably it is just the prior owners just patching things and not dealing with the issues as they came up.

SOLUTIONS?
We have three local pool companies coming out in the next two days and one company that is already come out and recommended that we replace the vinyl liner, which makes sense.
They also said because the concrete of the deck is not attached to the coping or the steel wall that the deck should be demolished and poured again and connected to bullnose coping. He said he would do this to add structure and support to the walls so they don't heave in more. Sound reasonable?
They also said they would put in braces and frames in the areas where it is heaved forward. I believe they were called x-frames but I can't recall the specifics. He did not give a price point on this as it depends what it looks like and how involved it will be.
Right now I have a quote as follows (in Canada): vinyl liner $7,500, remove and pour concrete $8,500, bullnosed coping $2,000, and then replacing the skimmer basket, and some odds and ends and the the total is $22k + whatever bracing is needed. The timeline would be 3 months away before they can do it.

QUESTIONS:
1) How dangerous and bad is it that the pool is going to be draining near the basement, and the sub pump is going off?

2) Once the water has completed draining out of the pool, depending on where the water table level is, would it be bad to rip out the very old and brittle vinyl liner and see what is behind it?
I'm very interested to see the bottom of the pool and so if the water table and water level does not allow me to fully access and visualize the bottom of the pool canI pump it off visualize it and then refill water back to the water table level or would that be dangerous for the structure of the pool?

3) There was also talk of demolishing the concrete deck, and then I could dig down by the seams where it is starting to heave to try to relieve some of the pressure until the work can actually be done.
Right now we have 2x6s bracing the pool, which can be seen in the photos. Does this look adequate or should I add more? Or do you think this is overkill?

4) How ridiculous would it be to just replace the vinyl liner and then follow along and see if the wall starts to move or heave at all in the future? (and thus not touch the concrete pad that is independent)

5) Would the bulnose coping provide enough structural support to prevent heaving in the future?
Should I be worried about the bulnose coping failing sometime in the future and then needing to replace the patio concrete again?

6) Also, how much is time of the essence in terms of fixing this? The prior quote is for September. We won't be moving into the house because of other renovations, so we wouldn't miss out on a pool season as we have our current house has pool, but I don't love the idea of having a completely empty pool sitting there for numerous months. Someone said they probably have availability in the next month or so. How much of a price premium should we be paying for this?

7) How much of this work do you think we could do by ourselves (as if it's just elbow grease a jackhammer, wheelbarrows, Etc I would be comfortable if we are bringing down the cost)?
Anything else that I should be asking the future pool people in terms of input and pricing and ideas?

Okay, that is probably way too many questions, but as you can tell, my mind has been racing, and I certainly would love any ideas for input or advice or what to be asking the other pool places.

Certainly, I can provide more information and clarification if needed.
I will take you along on this ride as I go through it.
Certainly a stressful and memorable ride, and hopefully not too ridiculously expensive.

Welcome! Sorry it’s from the pool troubles. Certainly a new liner is required. This is probably one of those things that budget dictates what happens (ie do you want a really nice pool/landscaping/etc or just patch up what you have)

Assuming you want to keep the pool, I think I’d drain the water with a separate pump to somewhere that doesn’t damage anything (if available) unless I was sure where the leaking water was going.

New liner tracks probably require a new deck? Assuming so, I would demo the deck.

I would not assume the caving walls will stay put. They were moving for a reason and a likely reason is water intrusion. With the deck removed, you may be able to get the panels to sit back into place with some excavation, or maybe not. Maybe some of the pool wall can be replaced as needed?

Might check into what a whole new liner pool would cost and subtract some from the excavation already being done and compare that to the repair prices just for reference.

Bill1974 · May 1, 2025

Depends on what your budget allows and what your end goal is. If you are up for learning and have a lot of sweat equity you can do it all yourself. There are plenty of people on this site that have installed their pool themselves. If I were in your shoes, I would empty the pool, remove the liner and install cross bracing to prevent more movement of the walls. At that point evaluate what the pool needs and what you want and can afford. Pressure test the lines (maybe dig up one or two to see what material and condition they are in). Address rust issues with the pool structure. Replace skimmers and returns if needed.

Before busting up the concrete yourself, figure out how much it's going to cost for you to get rid of the debris. If you have dump trailer or dump truck and a place that takes concrete at a reasonable rate go for it. If you need to rent a truck or trailer it may not be worth your sweat. If you use a dumpster, check the rates, some charge by the ton for any material and some have better rates if it clean concrete that they will bring to recycle vs just dump it in a landfill.

If you have long term plans to stay they, and the decking is coming up, i would replace the all the lines (unless they are in good condition), skimmers, returns, lights, and anything else that is under the decking that won't be easy to get to if there is an issue down the road. Install provisions for a heater if there are not any currently.

If you are okay with bowed walls you can get a new liner and redo the decking.

The one quote you got seems reasonable, just budget for a surprise or two.

Other options are to rip it all out and fill it in or build a new pool (liner or plaster).

johnp98 · May 1, 2025

Bperry said:
Assuming you want to keep the pool, I think I’d drain the water with a separate pump to somewhere that doesn’t damage anything (if available) unless I was sure where the leaking water was going.

Thanks for the advice!
Yeah I really would love to pump off the water at least to the level of the shallow end tear and rip. As then there is less water draining under the house as I could drain the water much further away from the house.
Do you think that would possibly compromise the structure at all? Or are vinyl pools effectively an open structure as my understanding is they are non water tight seams between the bottom and the metal side walls.

Also can I just get in a mini excavator and dig up around the pool or is there vital bracing that runs out the back end of the steel siding that we would need to be careful of?

At this point I am expecting to rip up the deck, dig down with an excavator, then leave it to the pool people to brace it and put in new coping and viny liner and replace the lines and returns and skimmer and then have our contractor pour new concrete as I was hoping to pour new concrete in other areas of our house as well. Does that seem reasonable?

Bperry · May 1, 2025

johnp98 said:
Thanks for the advice!
Yeah I really would love to pump off the water at least to the level of the shallow end tear and rip. As then there is less water draining under the house as I could drain the water much further away from the house.
Do you think that would possibly compromise the structure at all? Or are vinyl pools effectively an open structure as my understanding is they are non water tight seams between the bottom and the metal side walls.

Also can I just get in a mini excavator and dig up around the pool or is there vital bracing that runs out the back end of the steel siding that we would need to be careful of?

At this point I am expecting to rip up the deck, dig down with an excavator, then leave it to the pool people to brace it and put in new coping and viny liner and replace the lines and returns and skimmer and then have our contractor pour new concrete as I was hoping to pour new concrete in other areas of our house as well. Does that seem reasonable?

I don’t know enough about liner pools to advise on that portion. Some have metal walls with seemingly not much bracing and I’ve seen others that pour a giant concrete footing around the base of the walls. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can comment on details.

PoolStored · May 1, 2025

That looks more like a fiberglass pool that was retrofitted with a liner. Might search TFP for fiberglass pools with vinyl liners.

johnp98 · May 1, 2025

PoolStored said:
That looks more like a fiberglass pool that was retrofitted with a liner. Might search TFP for fiberglass pools with vinyl liners.

Interesting. Hummm I'll take a better look at it tomorrow for sure. If I take down the vinyl then I should see the fiberglass underneath correct? As I feel like I just see the metal framing.
Bit I'll look more tomorrow and report back.

johnp98 · May 1, 2025

Bperry said:
I don’t know enough about liner pools to advise on that portion. Some nuts have metal walls with seemingly not much bracing and I’ve seen others that pour a giant concrete footing around the base of the walls. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can comment on details.

Yeah I'll have to look up photos of vinyl pools and their footings and maybe just have to dig down and explore myself in the next few days. I have an appointment with call before you dig to tell me were all the electrical and other lines run and they come in 5 days so I probably have to wait until that time to explore deeper down.

johnp98 · May 10, 2025

Ok some updates:

The pool has now fully fully drained.

We have T bracing holding all the steel wall joints.

I busted through the concrete pad and dug down and there is metal bracing and a concrete footing to the walls.

The floor of the pool is a little rough and shows signs of longterm water exposure and leaking.

We had 3 pool people come by and give us quotes in the 30-60k range.
They all recommend busting up the concrete pad, adding some form of support at the top, then pouring new concrete, new coping, skimmer, returns, plumbing.
Here is a summary and price breakdown.

I was expecting this to cost white a bit, but I am wondering if there would be substantial savings and if we would be over our head if we tried to do all of this ourselves (outside of having someone come to pour concrete)?

What are people's thoughts about it? Any advice of resurfacing the flooring?
Any recommendations for where to order supplies in Canada?
I'll start digging around the forms more for build guides, but if people have any good resources that would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

Bill1974 · May 12, 2025

Being in over you head or not is something you need to figure out. We don't know your skills and abilities, or what your schedule and how much time you have. If you have time and patients, go for it and when you run in to road block come back here to ask for direction. But before that, have a plan and try to figure out all the steps and what you can do and what you can't.

Most of it is manual labor. But there are other technical aspects (understanding the requirements of bonding). Backfilling so you have follow up issues. Most equipment is straight forward to install if you follow the manuals. I would also leave pouring concrete to someone else. Whoever does the liner should be able to deal with the floor (you can do sand, concrete, poolkrete, etc). To some it's not difficult to others impossible. A lot is experience. My pool has a sand bottom. When I got a new liner they started smoothing the sand in the shallow end and worked to the deep end and got out using a ladder and touched up the ladder marks with a paint roller on a pole. Not sure I would have figured that out, and I am pretty sure I would have worked the opposite direction and taken days not hours.

TinFoilHat · May 12, 2025

A man's gotta know his limitations.

johnp98 · Tuesday at 12:51 PM

I thought I would start a new thread for this pool rejuvenation / rebuild. Hoping to get people's thoughts and expertise on various issues.

Part 1: Current Situation:
We have just moved into a house with a new 16x34 ft in-ground pool with a vinyl liner that needs significant work.
It needs a new liner as the old one is in shreds and torn everywhere.
Two of the walls are bulged and heaved at the top of the steel wall (where the 6-foot panels join), but we do not know when this has occurred (probably years and years ago for various reasons I won't go into).
Also, the concrete pad is not connected to the steel pool wall or the coping and so the two are independent. So the two walls are starting to heave independently from the pad and are approximately 3" displaced forward from the concrete pad of the pool.
All the water has drained out of it from all the significant tears to the liner.
There were also lots of old leaks so the sand/concrete flooring has eroded in numerous places.
We have put bracing in the pool to reinforce the steel walls, with the pool being empty.
You can see the initial form here when I was in more shock and disbelief but here are some photos:

A pool being built in a backyardAI-generated content may be incorrect.

A concrete floor with a shadowAI-generated content may be incorrect.

A close up of a crack in the groundAI-generated content may be incorrect.

A close up of a pipeAI-generated content may be incorrect.

A person's hand on a ledgeAI-generated content may be incorrect.

What I think we need to do:
Now that the dust has settled (more like the water has drained) I have come up with a plan of attack.
I broke our plan of attack into various stages. I have questions at various points so please comment on any of these stages or if you would change the order of any of these steps.

johnp98 · Tuesday at 12:52 PM

Part 2: The Plan

1. Remove the concrete pad / deck
I have a contact who feels comfortable cutting, demoing, and hauling away the concrete.
Obviously, we would need to be super careful not to cut or damage the steel wall while doing this.
I have already dug where the wall is bulging and broke up the concrete there and there does seem to be reasonable (A frame?) bracing that is poured into the concrete footing of the pool. So I don't think we need to dig around the whole pool and re-do the footing.

2. Try to straighten the wall
I was going to dig down and around the two spots where it has bulged the most, remove the bolts holding the A frame and then maybe get a bottle jack and try to straighten these two areas and then re-secure it to the bracing that is in the footing.
Or do people have other thoughts? Or would you just leave it and assume that the new concrete pad would provide enough support?

3. Remove the current coping
Nothing special here, I just need to get it out.

4. Resurface the bottom flooring
I have a contractor who feels comfortable re-surfacing the bottom of the pool, and here is some information that I found that I was going to pass on to him.

A white paper with yellow text and black textAI-generated content may be incorrect.

A pool bottom preparation instructionsAI-generated content may be incorrect.

I assume the straighter the lines and angles, the better for measuring the liner.
Also, one pool end is ~1 inch higher than the other. Would you do the flooring plumb and level, or would you have it level to the height of the wall (I hope that makes sense).
There is also a main drain in the deep end that we would fill. I was thinking some concrete to fill in that area as it is very eroded, as that is where the main leak was, and then some bottom mix on top.
Anything specific that you would also highlight?

5. Measure the pool for the vinyl liner
Because the floor is in rough shape, I only want to re-measure the pool once the floor is done, as then we will know the exact measurements.
Apparently the contractor could get a LiDAR scan of the pool for not too much money. But I don't know if that would be way too much overkill for the measurements.

6. Install coping
I was just going to get bullnosed aluminum coping.
Any suggestions for things to consider or specifics in this area? Do you think it is something that I can DIY myself, as I feel comfortable with it. But want to know people's opinions.

7. Bonding cable
Does the pool need a copper bonding cable? Or should it already have one? Or is that just needed if there are lights in the pool?

8. Install Skimmer
I was going to replace the skimmer, so there are no issues with it in the future if we are doing all this work.
Looking at Pool Supplies Canada Pool Supplies Canadathey do not have tons of options, only these two:

A screenshot of a productAI-generated content may be incorrect.

And then run 2-inch polyethylene pipe (red stripe) back to the pad.
Should I just keep the current location as it seems reasonable to me, but are there advantages of putting it in another location? I have also heard of people putting in two skimmers to act as a fail-safe if one fails. Is that paranoia or good practice?
Anything else that I should consider for this?

9. Piping and returns
I was going to redo the plumbing from the skimmer in 2-inch piping for sure.
I have no idea how long the current polyethylene pipe has been in place.
I have heard some people say to replace all of the piping because you are doing all this work and you don't want issues in the future.
On the other hand, I've heard people say just to pressure test the system and if there's no signs of a leak, then you can keep it the same.
I think I would lean towards really digging and laying down a new piping and then potentially doing 2 inch piping, as currently it is 1 1/2 inches.
In Canada I hear that most everyone uses semi flexible polyethylene pipe (red stripe) for the underground piping of pools. Does this seems reasonable? I see lots of people doing PVC here on the forms and just making sure that polyethylene pipe is not a mistake.
Is there anything to specifically consider in this regard?

I have heard that running the piping tracks in parallel and only joining them at the pool pad is the ideal way as then if there are future issues with one of the returns or lines, you can just plug it off and have a functional pool with one less return.

Currently, there are two returns as pictured:

A drawing of a poolAI-generated content may be incorrect.

The pool does get a significant amount of leaves and I do think the two returns create a slight whirlpool effect and I don't know if the skimmer naturally sucks in a lot of the leaves. Because of this, I was thinking about adding an extra return or moving their returns to other possible locations. Do you think just having two returns would be adequate or would you increase it to three or four or where would you place the returns?
I was thinking:

10. New concrete pad +/- various levels of bracing
I have someone who feels comfortable doing the concrete pad and would pour a deck that is significantly larger than the current deck, which only extends 2.5 feet on all sides.
I would want it to extend at least 4 feet on all sides as we want to drill in a pool fence for the kids and also would probably drill in a winter safety cover.
The current thought was to spot weld the rebar onto the steel wall at the top to connect to the concrete pad to the steel wall of the pool. Do you think this would be adequate or do you think we need additional bracing or anything else to consider in this regard as this is slightly outside of my area of comfort?
I have heard people use X braces but I don't know if that would need to be done in this case.
Also will need pool ladder moulds to be placed at this point.
Anything else I should bring up with the concrete floor guy?
Obviously it will need expansion joints, yet it sounds like that's pretty standard.

11. Install the liner
Hopefully, by this point, the aligner will have been delivered and then I can install the liner. I've been watching numerous videos online and have two shop facts to help suck out the air. I think I could gather 4 to 6 other people to help with installing the liner.
I would need to sand and scrape the walls to make sure they are clean and clear.
Do people recommend those foam pads on the floor and siding?
I don't know if the liner should be done before or after pouring the concrete
I'll need to look into the chemicals for starting up a pool, but that should not be too difficult.
Anything else I should consider or think about for the liner?

12. Cut holes for the safety cover and the safety fence
I would cut holes for the safety fence and safety cover. We have done a safety fence in the past with our previous pool and just rented a concrete drill on a stand to get the adequate angles for the pool fence. We've never done a safety cover but it sounds like it's relatively straightforward. Anything specific I should think about it in this regard?

13 Anything else?
Anything else that I'm missing or that you would consider?
Any valuable resources that you would recommend?

14. Enjoy the pool!
Obviously, we'll be inviting everyone who has been involved and loads more to enjoy the pool soon it is ready!
I was probably going to order from Pool Supplies Canada Pool Supplies Canada but I am happy to have any suggestions or advice on where to order from here in Canada.

Thanks for any advice and happy for people to follow allow on this adventure.

johnp98 · Tuesday at 12:52 PM

Part 3:

Reserved for updates and future photos, and questions

johnp98 · Tuesday at 12:53 PM

Part 4:

Reserved for final photos and tips for future people

johnp98 · Tuesday at 12:54 PM

I think I have assembled a good team around me to help tackle this. So I will be moving the rebuild over to this thread here.

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HELP - The house we bought has major issues - Old vinyl liner, massive leak, wall heave / bowing - How can we fix it, and what do we do?

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