16 July 2024 Finishing Up my OB Pool

I wish I could blame the x chromosome on this but so far it's unanimous! It's just another hole I'll have to dig out from...

01 July 2025 Update: Finally getting swg back, plus chemistry and startup observations

It's finally been 30 days since I added my crappy well water to the pool... and brushed, and brushed, and brushed some more while adding a TON of acid and LC plus several pounds of tablets in two feeders. Chemistry had done pretty much what I expected based on TFP documentation and expert advice. TA is starting to get in the range of normal dropping from a whopping 300 on my highest reading to 150 now. And I've maintained close to .5 CSI for the fresh plaster and followed the TFP plaster startup guide. Some of the white swirls lessened from brushing but not really very much. I started adding CYA granules two weeks ago using sock method in addition to the trichlor and it's finally starting to register as barely 20 ppm (averaging up with a guess that I'm ~15 on the test) and FC consumption is leveling out slightly. So now getting ready to add salt and start the CircuPool RJ 60.

Florida weather has been nice for startup. Hot enough to warm the water up so I could get in and brush thoroughly. Even with my long brush the 18' width is a challenge. for the infinity wall so I find just sitting on the wall and working my way up and down is easier. And there are a lot of corners that are much quicker from inside the pool. In prep for adding salt today I noticed a couple things:

• Salt test was 1000 ppm already. Guess all the LC added salt just like we hear about that chlorine pools really are salt pools also.
• I tested my raw well water and it was zero... well technically I guess it's less than 200 ppm but the solution turned salmon red immediately.

Like my previous salt installation I'll add the salt first and use LC to chlorinate at first. Did this before to see if Robin liked it. She's had fairly short intervals in the pool due to her skin sensitivity to non-salt pool (she got to float around while I scrubbed). This helped with her terrible back issues that delayed the start of this pool dig 'till this year. Will be interesting to see if she has the same very favorable reaction to salt this time.

Now that we're prepping for swg I've started to lower the pH and CSI. We're running around pH 7.3 and CSI -.05 to -.3. I'm hoping the lower pH will also start to clean up the light colored swirls although my plaster guy say's I'm going to need an acid treatment. I avoided that in the first month because all the expert and recent chemistry I could find indicated I should run balanced CSI up around .5 and pH between 7.5 and 8.0 to avoid leaching calcium out of the new plaster. Seems to have worked since my CH has consistantly run 250. I think the theory is to let the plaster cure all the way through in first 30 days before I focus on the surface. This should ensure well developed plaster and adhesion to the pool shell. I also paid an extra $1800 for a water-proofing bond coat that should help also. The plaster guy told me he knows this approach is good but many customers force him to do an acid wash early. He said he thinks this hurts plaster life but he also has to keep the customer happy. Now my challenge will be to get the best look on the surface I can and remember @onBalance 's comments that I should view the plaster as an ever-changing work of art. Speaking of which @onBalance and @JoyfulNoise do you guys have any comments on my observations and plan to start salt? And thanks so much for the education you provided as I got ready for plaster!

Remainder of the work is coming along nicely:

• Got the spa plumbing hooked up and seems to be working well although I was short one jet that's now on order.
• Learning a lot about how to run this pool. Seems to work best by kicking on the main pump first thing in morning then after prime drop back 1200 rpm with gutter valves almost close. Yields this glassy looking water-filled all the way to the edge over the entire pool. Just what we wanted to see. And sunset views are stunning!
• I was thinking that basin level control was going to be very difficult. I've learned a lot by operating the pool in manual. It's turning out to be pretty simple. Just set the normal level about 40% full and below that add water to the basin. Then 25% low, low level shuts down the pump to avoid sucking air. This is so easy since I have a 1500 gal basin that allows a lot of "fat" for controls. We can lose a lot of water quickly when people get out, or when the pool starts and level in the basin only changes an inch or two. And no danger of over-flowing in the opposite direction when people get in.
• Controls are progressing slowly as time allows l learn to be barely competent in RPi with very patient expert help from @Katodude and @rstrouse.
• Final detailed enclosure measurements were taken last week and adjustments for accomodating our very large picture window were made.
• I got spare pump connection parts so I'll be able to clean up the really ugly piping after I made changes to get the heater out of the main pump loop with no spare pump union connection. Remainder of the plumbing is working well and nice and fits well within 1/8" so no leaky flanges and easy assembly/disassembly.
• Did my first filter clean last weekend. It's a little more work with the 425 sq ft Doheney Cryistal Clear but I really like the design. I was very retisent to go with an "offbrand" model but it looked pretty robust and Dohaney isn't really that far from a "major supplier" category. Here's what I liked:
  • Compression band is easy to remove with a ratchet or battery powered drill.
  • The sealing system is the best I've seen for the piping. It has a flat silicone gasket that seals on pipe end plus two large o-rings on the outside edge of the pipe inserts.
  • There are two sets of handles that make removal and replacement of the top half very easy.
  • Plus the gauge fitting and air bleed work great and seem more robust than my old Jandy filter.
  • Even after a LOT of dirt from the new pool pressure increase was really less than 20% and the filters were about 1/2 used. The bottom of this vessel is also plenty big to hold all the sand, pebbles, chunks of concrete and plaster.
• I'm finding that once I got the crappy well water that had a very greenish tinge from the yellow tanins and blue finish it cleared up nicely. Easily passes the coin test. Even though it was ugly at first the water was very close to perfect balance for plaster startup and it's turning out to be really good for pool management. Once I'm down to the TA level desired I can switch back and forth between well fill and softened fill to manage CH. Pretty cool!
• I have zero staining and that's always a concern with well water. Even though I've never tested detectable iron and other metals I did use a phosphate based chaelating agent as recommended and will maintain that for a while.
• Last things to hook up and play with are the LED bublers on the sundeck plus the other pool and spa LED's. Will be great to see how they look at night.
• I'll try to add some additional sunset photos tonight.

Chris

Sure. They're tough to photograph. I'll see if I can get one tonight.

setsailsoon said:

Sure. They're tough to photograph. I'll see if I can get one tonight.

Click to expand...

They are worse than it looks in this photo and I believe they were definitely remnants of that creamy stuff mentioned in the articles on new plaster. I've brushed them aggressively with no real change...

Folks,
We finally have the enclosure structural components delivered to site and are starting pre-assembly (I'll add photo's later today). So I think this project is finally nearing completion. I'm still struggling somewhat with RPi controls and am also very confident I'll be able to sort that out but that's kind of a project of it's own that I'm continuing on a separate thread here. As I conclude this way too long thread, I want to add a few things over my next few posts that I think may help future OB's and even people that are using PB for their planning. First is a list of categories that should be used to estimate cost and schedule. Think of this as a check-list. Before I finish I'll make this into a table with cost estimating factors that may be useful and are based on my actual final costs and schedule. I hope this helps OB's to have a more comprehensive estimate costs so they don't start with an incomplete cost estimate and/or schedule. Before I finish, I'll add posts for: Planning, Project Controls (cost and schedule), Contracting, Finding Qualified Contractors, Construction Management, Permitting. So below is the first item, Categories.

I hope this is helpful.

Chris

Categories
Design/Engineering
Permitting
Excavation
Forming (wood, steel, other)
Temporary Access
Gunite/Shotcrete
Equipment Pad
Equipment
Electrical
Barrier/Waterproofing Coat
Tile
Plaster
Plumbing
Pool Decking
Landscaping
Retaining wall(s)
Quality Control/Assurance
Insurance
Safety

Permitting

As an OB one of the most important things you'll do is to have a quality and safety plan. Why do I mix the two? I have over 40 years experience in heavy industrial construction. From a selfish perspective I can say all safe jobs are also very high quality. From a personal perspective the saddest day of your life can be when a worker gets hurt on your job. I view permitting a part of the quality control process. Many people see it as a pain, unnecessary and waste of time. I see it as the opposite. Building departments employ senior engineers and other technical staff that follow all the latest technical design standards on your behalf to make sure that when you or a contractor build anything withing their regulatory jurisdiction it complies with the latest technical standards based on expert's thinking in every field. Their inspectors are not always experts but they are charged with inspecting to be sure what's being built complies with what's been designed and approved by the experts. Are they perfect? No. But overall they are one of the few places an OB that's never built a pool can get a LOT of help to be sure the pool is built right. And the cost is baked in to the permit fees so you've already paid for it... might as well benefit from it.

If you've never or seldom worked with a building department I would strongly recommend you go down to the building department to meet with them and if possible schedule some time with a plan reviewer. They are usually happy to spend time to take you through the process. You'll also start building relationships that can be very helpful as you plan and execute your plans.

Building departments have many different levels of requirements and capabilities. I am very fortunate that Martin County Florida has a very capable technical staff and permitting system that is first rate! You can do everything online and it's very slick or you can do everything manually with paper documents. The latter way works fine it's just slower. When I wasn't sure about anything a quick call to them, left a message and always called back that day. The process is pretty simple and similar in all permitting entities that I've worked in:

• Read up on the requirements and get an application started so you know what you need to submit to get your permit. Make sure you know what needs to be done before you start. Otherwise you may get fined.
• Get your design completed and make sure the designer can provide all the required documents. Usually this includes "stamped drawings" which means they've been approved by a registered professional engineer in your state. Engineers that stamp your drawings are taking personal liability for the integrity of the design. All you have to do is make sure you (or your sub-contractors) build it that way.
• Part of your permit identifies what inspections are required. If you're not sure what needs to be done or can't be done call your plan reviewer friend that you now have or ask to speak with an inspector at the building department. Building departments can have huge problems with OB's since many don't know what their doing and/or don't want them involved. The building department is required to enforce the rules. If they don't they get in trouble. I've found that reaching out to them ahead of time always is met by helpful people. And it's not just to keep them happy. Even though I've got decades of experience I learn new things on every job especially when I've never done it before. I had never built a pool before so I learned a lot. And I got a better job because the inspectors assigned to my job have seen thousands of pools. They were also very happy to talk to me about typical issues to look out for. Most of them are trained on many different disciplines so if they're inspecting your forming work they can also tell you about plumbing, electrical and mechanical. My favorite question to them was "what do you have the most problems with on OB pools". They love this question because they don't enjoy failing an inspection anymore than the builder does. It often leads to conflict and all kinds of bad things for them. But they have to be objective and do their jobs.
• After you submit your application with the required documents it routes through their plan reviewers and experts to be sure it complies. All kinds of real experts are involved including electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, civil/structural engineers and others. So when you get an approved permit it's like you have had your own engineering department work for you.
• You'll probably need to file a notice of commencement. This puts them on notice you'll be starting work and they should expect inspections plus activity on your site.
• You also need to display your permit and put it in some kind of container the inspectors can access.
• As you complete the work you schedule inspections. I hear a lot of complaining about this but I never waited more than 24 hours for an inspection using the handy online system here.
• Once complete the inspector signs off on your permit and in my jurisdiction they also do it online through their app. This triggers some approval emails and other internal things at the building department.
• Always tie a % of payment for each sub to successful inspection for their portion of the work if there is one. If they won't do this you have the wrong sub.
• A key step for a pool is to be ready to fill it with water since you need to do this very soon after plaster is applied. To do this in my jurisdiction you have to have a barrier fence and alarms installed. They've kind of gone overboard with this but it's because so many kids have died from slipping into a pool unattended. This make headlines and causes a lot of heartache. Most of the time you can just drill a bunch of holes in the paving around the pool and install a relatively inexpensive fence that meets the ASTM requirements. I didn't want to do this since I'm putting in a very expensive screened enclosure that meets all the requirements but it can't be done very easily before they apply the plaster and I can't wait for a week or two to install it. I also didn't want to drill 50 holes in my $20K marble pavers. So I met with the plan reviewer and he offered that most builders do a temp fence that's installed with pvc pipe hammered into the ground outside the paved area. Problem solved! And another benefit of having established a constructive relationship with the building department.
• As you proceed through the work there may be some important holds. For mine certain things had to be inspected before they were covered up by the next step. Things like the bonding system or rebar spacing or pressure testing come to mind. If you're the OB and doing the permits this is your responsibility. The contractor will usually assume you have your approvals before asking them to mobilize. Some may realize you're an OB and ask but many will not. It never works out well when your sub does work that covers up previous work and prevents the last inspection that should have happened. This can be very costly and cause a LOT of delay.
• After final inspection you are done with the job as far as the building department is concerned. Be aware though this may be much more than just the pool proper. You may have to have things like a final drainage inspection and/or as-built survey that must be stamped by a registered surveyor.
• When you get your final approve you can breathe a sigh of relief... you're not only done but you have a lot of experts that have indicated it was done well and it's safe to operate.

I hope this is helpful.

Chris

Wow! I might be able to breakeven with the excess pages fee!