IC-40 SWG Reads Low Salt at 3200 ppm?

mmcwhorter

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Jul 13, 2015
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Huntingtown, MD
Since SWG is used for Algae Prevention, I listed this blog there:

I just installed my IC-40 SWG for the coming season after SLAM passed. All the indicators are normal (including the water temp indicator) except the red LOW SALT indicator is on...and I have taken the Slat level up to about 3200 ppm.....I am testing the Salt Level using the Chromate Indicator method (from yellow to salmon color). I know in the past the IC-40 was happy with 3000 ppm and even perhaps 2800 ppm, but for sure in the summer when the water is in the 80F range......but the water is only at 56 degrees F today. The manual says the ideal salt level is 3600 ppm. When I opened the pool SALT=2000 ppm and added 7 bags of salt thus far..... Would the lower-than-usual water temperature be able to "fool" the IC-40? I believe the IC-40 is designed to produce CL down to +52F. I was thinking about turning on the heater and running closed-loop int he spa at something like +80F...but it's a cold wet rainy misty crappy day and I think I'll wait till later. And I have no more salt till I run back up to Wally World anyway. Six of the seven bags went in the pool yesterday, and the last one about an hour ago...so I'm thinking it's had plenty of time to dissolve. Plus I brushed the floor and my Nautilus CC Plus Robot was employed to help stir it well.

All the other parameters are:
FC=12 (coming down off SLAM)
CC=0.5
pH=7.5 (maybe a little off due to high FC???)
TA=100 (also a little high, plan to add MA and aerate)
CH=350
CYA between 40-50 (yep, plan to add more after I get the SALT thing working)
 
Wait until the water temperature gets into the high 60's before digging too deep into the IC40.

I have seen my cells not get reasonably accurate salt readings until the water warms up.

It is probably a problem with the temperature thermistor in the flow switch assembly which has always been the weak spot in the Intellichlor cells.

 
Your numbers are good. Leave the TA alone and it'll come down slowly with MA additions when controlling the PH. The CYA level you have is fine for this time of the year. I recommend not to raise it yet should something happen and you need to slam so raise it when the ambient temps come up.
 
Thanks for the advice...I can artificially raise the water temp in the Spa closed loop using the propane heater..., so I'll make sure the Spa and the Pool water have reached equilibrium with regard to the SALT LEVEL....I think I'll try that tonight. Bring it up to about 75F and shut the heater off. All the Salt has been dumped into the main pool, and I'd assume the Spa will take a while to get to the same level unless I drain it to the pool and refill from the pool. I sure have been very happy with my IC-40....hope she is OK.
 
AJW22: I found this nugget in the link you sent (good stuff by the way)

  • The cell tests the salt level every 12 hours. So it may take 12 hours for the salt level on the cell to change after adding salt.

Hmmmm, that is good news.....maybe I should just let it run some more, as it has NOT been on for 12 hours...assuming it's 12-hour run time. Not real time.
 
The timer shuts off all the lights on the IC-40 when it switches to OFF>
Is that a reset?
It has cycled 2-3 times since I added the salt last night (and earlier today)...
Or are you saying disconnect the cable from the controller box for r a "hard re-cycle"?
 
I measured the Salt in both the pool and spa, and got 3400 (each measured 2X). The water was +54F and I noticed in the document provided by ajw22 it mentions the device working only at +60F and higher. Hmmm. My original owner manual says it works when above +52F. But this I assume refers to cold temp shutdown of the IC-40 system, not low salt indication.

Anyway, I closed off the spa suction and returns for spa only flow and turned on the heater to +67F. No change at +67F. Red low salt light still on with warmer water. I have noticed when starting the pump, that after the FLOW light goes green, the Salt level GOOD/LOW lights blink alternatively for about 5 minutes until it picks one condition or the other (In my case RED for LOW). Kind of a pain to have to wait that long.

So I shut the system off completely (I have a timer power on/off and also a power switch on/off) and disconnected the four pin connector from the SWG Cell to the bottom of the IC-40 Power Box per mknauss' "reboot" suggestion. Power reboot. THAT SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN THE SOLUTION!!!! In other words, I now assume shutting off power to the IC-40 via the Timer and or Power Switch wasn't "rebooting" the IC-40...whod'a thunk it? Had to pull the cable.

Thanks mknaus!!!

When I started the system again, had to wait the 5 minutes for the unit to measure salt level (blinking between Good and Bad) and it landed on GREEN for the first time this year... :)

I can verify milky clouds of CL gas coming from the pool returns.

The unit was bought on May 17, 2017...And I checked percentage cell use by holding down MORE button for 3 sec. and got 40%. The photo is of the unit as it was operating after pump turns on for 5 minutes, showing the LOW salt reading in steady red earlier today (before the re-boot). I didn't get a pic of the all green working condition, but it is. All good. QED. I really wanted this to work because I am leaving on a biz trip soon, not to mention I did not want to have to repair the unit, yet.
Thanks all.

IMG_2298.jpg
 
well heck, went out to check before bedtime and that darn LOW SALT red light indicator is back ON my IC-40...BUT!!!! The IC-40 is indeed producing FC as is readily apparent by the milky clouds coming from the returns. Earlier today, with the RED low Salt indicator on, it was NOT producing FC>....It's been a long day, I'll look at it tomorrow. :(
 

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You mentioned the actual water temp in your previous posts. How did you measure that temp? Have you run the IC 40 through the diagnostics to report what is believes is the water temp? If the thermistor has failed, the ic40 will default to an assumed water temp of 70 degrees. It will also use this assumed temp when conducting the salinity verification. If the actual water temp is colder and the cell assumes a 70 degree water temp, you will get low salinity reporting/errors.

 
Great video, thanks...Checked SALT LOW red light this AM and it's still on, BUT THE IC-40 APPEARS TO BE PRODUCING FC. The returns show the milky gas. I'll measure FC later with FC drop test.

As to the temp measurement (2 methods used), 1) I use my Raypack propane temp sensor heater display, it reads at 55F. It has always been pretty accurate when tested against a float thermometer or probe. 2) I also have an Ambient Weather WH31P Waterproof Thermometer Probe Sensor that reports into my WS-2902C weather system, and I keep the end of the probe in the spa and the transmitting unit nearby in a waterproof box. It measures same temp as the Raypack heater sensor.

I'll check the IC-40 temp reading later today as you suggest. I think I have to hold the MORE button down for 3 seconds, then the first indication is LIFE USAGE (which is at 40%), and then quickly press it a second time for TEMP. I am not sure if my unit (2017) is version 3.1 or not, as the manual indicates the temp measurement is an upgrade in version 3.1. We will see soon. If the rain would stop I could go out there now and play with it....Andother rainy day here, although we are in the mid-40s for a low (versus 37-39F lately)...its a heat wave :)

Pic included is a plot of spa temp vs. time. Pol and spa right now are same...except where you see yesterday I closed the spa and ran it up to 66F to test the IC-40 using warmer water.

I don't think the IC-40 has EVER been used below +60F, maybe even higher. I usually wait longer to open but biz travel upcoming made me decide to open earlier than the norm. Then again, last year's April opening yielded a green pool like never before. Ying/Yang, misery is conserved. Early or late.
 

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Great video, thanks...Checked SALT LOW red light this AM and it's still on, BUT THE IC-40 APPEARS TO BE PRODUCING FC. The returns show the milky gas. I'll measure FC later with FC drop test.

As to the temp measurement (2 methods used), 1) I use my Raypack propane temp sensor heater display, it reads at 55F. It has always been pretty accurate when tested against a float thermometer or probe. 2) I also have an Ambient Weather WH31P Waterproof Thermometer Probe Sensor that reports into my WS-2902C weather system, and I keep the end of the probe in the spa and the transmitting unit nearby in a waterproof box. It measures same temp as the Raypack heater sensor.

I'll check the IC-40 temp reading later today as you suggest. I think I have to hold the MORE button down for 3 seconds, then the first indication is LIFE USAGE (which is at 40%), and then quickly press it a second time for TEMP. I am not sure if my unit (2017) is version 3.1 or not, as the manual indicates the temp measurement is an upgrade in version 3.1. We will see soon. If the rain would stop I could go out there now and play with it....Andother rainy day here, although we are in the mid-40s for a low (versus 37-39F lately)...its a heat wave :)

Pic included is a plot of spa temp vs. time. Pol and spa right now are same...except where you see yesterday I closed the spa and ran it up to 66F to test the IC-40 using warmer water.

I don't think the IC-40 has EVER been used below +60F, maybe even higher. I usually wait longer to open but biz travel upcoming made me decide to open earlier than the norm. Then again, last year's April opening yielded a green pool like never before. Ying/Yang, misery is conserved. Early or late.
There should be a sticker on the underside of your cell that indicates its firmware version. My cell was built the same year as yours and last year exhibited similar symptoms. Mine is attached to an Intelliph so I can see what temp it’s reporting. It reported 70 degrees all summer and I didn’t worry about it until the fall when water temps dropped and it stopped producing due to its theoretical low salinity. Flow switch swap corrected the issue.
 
Sounds like similar issues. I think once the water warms, I will be OK. I'll heat up the spa closed loop later (after the rain stops)....Too bad I already installed it and the bottom is facing the ground....but I could loosen it up a bit, rotate and check. Don't know why my contractor installed it horizontally, but it has always worked fine. The original unit installed failed after only a couple of months. I honestly do not recall what the failure was, but Pentail sent a brand-new unit. I probably have a record of the failure on my computer. I thought their service was quite good. I kept the old one for parts.
 
It might, indeed, be the low water temps but I had a situation a four years back. When your Salt ppm reading is low (or zero) and you KNOW there is more salt in the pool than that, the first "fix" is to check/replace the temp/flow switch inside the SWG. Second, the next "fix" will likely be a check of the salt board (in the IntelliTouch in my case) to see if it is functioning properly. Third, the SWG may actually end up being faulty and Pentair does stand behind their products and gets you back on line as soon as they can if the product is still under warranty. (I was up and running within 4 days when my IC60 crapped out in 2020.) That's my 2 cents for your consideration and the "further Reading" link is one of my "go tos" on this site.

One final thing I just recalled, don't let anyone BS you that "self-installed" replacement SWG's void the Pentair warranty. I talked at length to the tech at Pentair in 2020 because I had previously run an IC-40 and once it gave up the ghost, swapped to an IC-60 after finding a couple of threads here about SWG longevity. I installed the IC-60 myself (since it is basically plug & play) and I remove it each winter to replace it with a "blank" so was very familiar with the process. The Pentair warranty tech said that the requirement for "professional installation" is pertaining to the FIRST install where the panel is wired, etc. After that, a REPLACEMENT SWG can be self-installed for the very reason I just said....it is plug and play. The warranty on a REPLACEMENT self-installed SWG is the same as the warranty on a professionally installed first SWG according to Pentair.
 
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Thanks for the info. The FLOW indicator is coming on GREEN as soon as the pump primes up....usually, by the time the pressure gauge gets up to about 1/2 of final value, the FLOW light has gone green. This might mean the flow sensor is good? I believe I read somewhere the unit measures salinity via electrical conduction in the water. The more salt, I assume the higher the conduction. As we know, pure water does not conduct. For preparing to close after the SWG is not needed anymore...I do the same thing in the winter with the blank. I stored my IC-40 in a dry/cool place in the basement during the winter. These are very easy to install and remove. 5 minutes. I never did any surgery inside the IC-40 to replace the sensor, but it sounds relatively easy. Hopefully, I'll be out there later today looking at this after the rains stop.
 
Hopefully, I'll be out there later today looking at this after the rains stop.
I've found that rain messes me up for quite some time after, even with running 24/7. It could be as simple as the top water is just diluted enough to trip the warning.

The cell also produces down to 2600 while the low salt light comes on at 2800. (With some wiggle room for error as the tests aren't dead on).
 
This might mean the flow sensor is good?
The flow sensor may be good in that it senses flow, but it's onboard thermistor is shot so it doesn't sense temp or salinity. The only option is to replace the flow switch as it's 1 combined unit. If you can screw in a lightbulb you can change the sensor. The instructions are easy to follow along with and if you're at all handy it's a breeze.
 
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