CH and Salt

Everett_88 · Mar 13, 2024

I did my first check on salt and CH tonight since our initial fill.

5000ppm salt (Taylor test strip and drop test both shower 5000) - the builder dumped salt in when they finished and I didn’t know. My ic40 says 3600 ideal and 6000 max. Am I okay to just let this ride and slowly adjust as I add water from backwashing and evaporation or do I need to do something more dramatic?

My CH was 625… although it was my first time doing it so I will try again and see if I get the same results. I know we have hard water so it doesn’t surprise me that it’s high. I understand this is mostly irrelevant in a liner pool unless sky high… thoughts?

mgtfp · Mar 14, 2024

jack_frederick said:
Am I okay to just let this ride and slowly adjust as I add water from backwashing and evaporation or do I need to do something more dramatic?

Just a hint: Replacing evaporation doesn't reduce salt, the salt stays behind as the water evaporates. Backwashing does remove salt, so replacing water from that does reduce salt levels over time.

If your SWG is fine with that level then I'd say, do exactly as you suggested.

jack_frederick said:
My CH was 625… although it was my first time doing it so I will try again and see if I get the same results. I know we have hard water so it doesn’t surprise me that it’s high. I understand this is mostly irrelevant in a liner pool unless sky high… thoughts?

It's not just the pool surface, you also want to avoid scaling in the SWG cell. It scales up quicker in there due to the locally increased pH inside the cell. With a SWG it's best to maintain CSI slightly negative, between about -0.3 to 0.

Turn on "track CSI" in PoolMath to see where you are. And post a full set of test results (it share your PoolMath logs) do we can see where you are. Probably OK, but you are getting into the CH range where you don't want TA too high.

Everett_88 · Mar 14, 2024

mgtfp said:
Just a hint: Replacing evaporation doesn't reduce salt, the salt stays behind as the water evaporates. Backwashing does remove salt, so replacing water from that does reduce salt levels over time.

If your SWG is fine with that level then I'd say, do exactly as you suggested.

It's not just the pool surface, you also want to avoid scaling in the SWG cell. It scales up quicker in there due to the locally increased pH inside the cell. With a SWG it's best to maintain CSI slightly negative, between about -0.3 to 0.

Turn on "track CSI" in PoolMath to see where you are. And post a full set of test results (it share your PoolMath logs) do we can see where you are. Probably OK, but you are getting into the CH range where you don't want TA too high.

Thanks! How do I turn on my logs so you can see them?

Attached are screen shots of my CSI (-.09) and my log from yesterday. Note that my TA is high, I added the suggested amount of MA over the weekend and it only dropped 10. My PH is still about 7.5, maybe 7.4. So I think I need to dose some more MA but I was going to let it ride for a week and see if TA keeps dropping.

Lake Placid · Mar 14, 2024

jack_frederick said:
My ic40 says 3600 ideal and 6000 max

You’re confusing their TDS level recommendations and salt levels. Ideal salt is 3600. Below 2600 the unit won’t run. Above 4500 the unit will produce but the green salt light will flash. TDS levels according to Pentair are ideal between 3000 and 5700. 6000 is max TDS recommendation. If the cell isn’t flashing then it perceives that water as “good” although I’d work to reduce it closer to 3200-3600 as there is variability with how the cell measures salt and running on the extreme end of either side of the spectrum can put the cell in a non producing state if temperatures vary etc when it conducts its salinity check.

mgtfp · Mar 14, 2024

Thanks for the clarification, @Lake Placid. So once the water gets warmer, then the SWG might start complaining about high salt. Probably not a bad idea then to harvest as much rain as possible until temps warm up.

jack_frederick said:
How do I turn on my logs so you can see them?

In the pool setup at the bottom are the sharing option.

jack_frederick said:
So I think I need to dose some more MA but I was going to let it ride for a week and see if TA keeps dropping

A TA reduction should show up pretty much instantaneously once an acid addition has mixed in. But with the 10ppm granularity of the test it's not always fully visible. With the "effects of adding" in PoolMath you can calculate the TA-change of an acid addition.

As you keep adding acid to keep CSI low enough, TA will keep dropping untill it is low enough to allow pH getting higher without CSI getting too positive.

Mdragger88 · Mar 14, 2024

What is your fill water ch & do you have a water softener?

Everett_88 · Mar 15, 2024

Mdragger88 said:
What is your fill water ch & do you have a water softener?

No water softener. I just tested fill water and got 175.

I also used the “control” water I bought from Tftestkits and I think I may have been off on my pool water test. May have been looking for too much blue.

I’ll retest tomorrow.

Out of curiosity, is there anything in the pool that could spike my CH so much compared to my fill water?

Mdragger88 · Mar 15, 2024

jack_frederick said:
Out of curiosity, is there anything in the pool that could spike my CH so much compared to my fill water?

Using cal hypo or adding calcium increaser would explain the increase in such a short time if your testing is correct.

Everett_88 · Mar 15, 2024

Mdragger88 said:
Using cal hypo or adding calcium increaser would explain the increase in such a short time if your testing is correct.

I’ve used neither. Salt, MA, 100% CYA and LC are the only things that have been introduced to the water.

I’ll retest tomorrow. Betting I just tested wrong.

Mdragger88 · Mar 16, 2024

jack_frederick said:
I’ve used neither. Salt, MA, 100% CYA and LC are the only things that have been introduced to the water.

I’ll retest tomorrow. Betting I just tested wrong.

Are you certain of exactly what the pb added?
Looking forward to your retest.
Here’s the extended directions

Calcium Hardness

A drop-based test that measures the hardness in your water. Once measured, it is used … Read more…

www.troublefreepool.com

Everett_88 · Mar 16, 2024

Mdragger88 said:
Are you certain of exactly what the pb added?
Looking forward to your retest.
Here’s the extended directions

Calcium Hardness

A drop-based test that measures the hardness in your water. Once measured, it is used … Read more…

www.troublefreepool.com

Yes, 100% certain. This is the salt he added.

Everett_88 · Mar 17, 2024

For sure an error on my part. Retested water and got 175 CH.

Added 57oz of MA just now to try and get TA down.

Mdragger88 · Mar 17, 2024

Did you ever turn on log sharing?

Everett_88 · Mar 17, 2024

Yes, it’s on.

I just rechecked and I’m at 100 TA now.

Should I keep dosing? I’m adding the recommend amount but not getting the expected result?

Mdragger88 · Mar 17, 2024

Let the ph rise to 7.8 or 8.0 before rushing to lower it.
You’ve gone from ta of 120 to 100 in a short time. the acid is working.
There’s no rush to lower ta. It will happen as you maintain ph normally.

For poolmath - you must use the same login as your tfp forum account.
If you have inadvertently made a separate account for poolmath @Leebo can get them merged for you.

Everett_88 · Mar 17, 2024

Mdragger88 said:
Let the ph rise to 7.8 or 8.0 before rushing to lower it.
You’ve gone from ta of 120 to 100 in a short time. the acid is working.
There’s no rush to lower ta. It will happen as you maintain ph normally.

For poolmath - you must use the same login as your tfp forum account.
If you have inadvertently made a separate account for poolmath @Leebo can get them merged for you.

I’ll PM @Leebo

Poolmath js telling me to lower PH to 7.0-7.2, not raise it. Should I be raising it?

And, I actually started at 130! So I’m glad to see you say you’re happy with the movement. I’ll dose again, after checking, next weekend.

Mdragger88 · Mar 17, 2024

jack_frederick said:
Poolmath js telling me to lower PH to 7.0-7.2, not raise it. Should I be raising it?

Because that is how you lower ta.
No, you don’t need to do anything to raise ph chemically as that would also raise ta.
It will rise on its own.
When it does then lower it again to maintain ph in the 7’s. This will lower ta some each time.
Your ta of 100 is fine. Highish ta is literally the last thing to worry about. Any ta 50 or above is ok

Some people do choose to keep ta lower (around 60) to help mitigate ph rise. So they actively try to lower it. If your ph is pretty stable at your current ta you don’t have to worry about this. Just manage your ph.

Lower Total Alkalinity

A lower Total Alkalinity level can help a pool owner stabalize their pH increase. We'll explain how to lower TA with a little help from muriatic acid.

www.google.com

Newdude · Mar 17, 2024

Mdragger88 said:
There’s no rush to lower ta. It will happen as you maintain ph normally.

+1. If you target a low 7, you'll do the cycles faster than if you target a high 7. You aren't saving any work, you're just getting there quicker. Once it's even close to being in range, there is simply no rush to get to the finish line.

Everett_88 · Mar 17, 2024

jack_frederick said:
I’ll PM @Leebo

Poolmath js telling me to lower PH to 7.0-7.2, not raise it. Should I be raising it?

Mdragger88 said:
Because that is how you lower ta.
No, you don’t need to do anything to raise ph chemically as that would also raise ta.
It will rise on its own.
When it does then lower it again to maintain ph in the 7’s. This will lower ta some each time.
Your ta of 100 is fine. Highish ta is literally the last thing to worry about. Any ta 50 or above is ok
Some people do choose to keep ta lower (around 60) to help mitigate ph rise. So they actively try to lower it. If your ph is pretty stable at your current ta you don’t have to worry about this. Just manage your ph.

Lower Total Alkalinity

A lower Total Alkalinity level can help a pool owner stabalize their pH increase. We'll explain how to lower TA with a little help from muriatic acid.

www.google.com

Make sense; I misinterpreted your message. Thanks for the clarification

Everett_88 · Mar 17, 2024

jack_frederick said:
Make sense; I misinterpreted your message. Thanks for the clarification

@Mdragger88 poolmath linked up! Thanks

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