IntelliValve Upgrade Update

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MyAZPool

MyAZPool

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Jul 3, 2018
2,297
Arizona
Pool Size
20500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
ALL INTELLICENTER USERS

1. This week, I had the opportunity to participate in an online meet with two Pentair Senior Product Managers.

2. The primary topic was the long anticipated ability for IntelliCenter users to control IntelliValve positioning (5 user-defined positions), via the web-client/mobile app(s).

3. Below are a few key take-aways.
(a) RS-485 / application development teams have begun work in earnest and advanced application settings and granular access features with regards to this IntelliValve upgrade feature are underway.​
(b) Each IntelliValve will require a firmware update. It appears that this upgrade will require a "field upgrade", which will require a service call by an authorized Pentair Field Rep. This is due to the fact that upgrades cannot be performed by the user via the RS-485 bus. Trying to do so would inevitably "brick" the IntelliValve as some in the past, have unfortunately discovered. :oops: I have no further details at the moment regarding this IntelliValve field upgrade.​
(c) New IntelliValves sold at some point will NOT require this field upgrade as they will already possess the necessary firmware.​
(d) The Mobile apps will be the first to have the ability to control the IntelliValve upgrade features. The web-client will NOT have this ability until that platform is redesigned. At that time, it will also possess these features.​

4. In the near future, I may have some further details regarding what the settings page/menus may look like and what features it may contain. With the permission of Pentair, I will share those features here when they become available.

5. That said, they are looking at developing a couple of drop down options which would contain "pre-named" valve names and Purpose fields. We discussed naming conventions. I suggested some names that I use on a cheat sheet that I developed years ago. They seemed to like those. I then suggested that the IntelliCenter community here may have many more suggestions on what they might like to see regarding valve naming conventions, because everyone's plumbing designs are different and varied.

As examples, here are mine.
* P/S Suction - Home-Pool/Spa Suction. Position #2-Spa Skim/Drain Suction ONLY.
* P/S Return - Home-Pool/Spa Return. Position #2-Pool/Spa Return Valve
* Skim Only - Home-Pool Skim/Drain. Pool/Skim/Drain Suction. Position #2-Vacuum Port Only.
* Water Feature - Home-Pool Returns ONLY. Position #2-Pool Returns AND Water Feature.
* Heat By - Home-No Spa Heater Flow Position #2-Flow through Spa Heater.
* Filter/Chem By - Normal Filter/Chem Flow. Position #2-Bypass Filter/Chem Sensor Manifold.

If you would like input on valve naming conventions and purposes in the drop-down/purpose fields, then please respond with your suggestions in thread replies below and I will be happy to pass them along.

6. As briefly mentioned in 4.(d) above, a complete redesign of the IntelliCenter web-client (intellicenter2.com), is being given higher priority and is on the "drawing board". They mentioned that this is due to your participation and input here:

INTELLICENTER WEB-CLIENT / MOBILE APP?

TO ALL INTELLICENTER USERS Since the introduction of IntelliCenter nearly five years ago, I know that many of you have voiced your dissatisfaction here on the forum, regarding the outdated, user-unfriendly and overall “clunky” style of the IntelliCenter Web-Client (intellicenter2.com). As some...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
They spoke to the fact that the "look" and "feel" of the web-client redesign will attempt to mirror the Pentair Home Mobile Apps.

BTW, beta testing for the Pentair Home Apple Watch app is currently underway.
r.
 
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MyAZPool said:
(b) Each IntelliValve will require a firmware update. It appears that this upgrade will require a "field upgrade", which will require a service call by an authorized Pentair Field Rep. This is due to the fact that upgrades cannot be performed by the user via the RS-485 bus. Trying to do so would inevitably "brick" the IntelliValve as some in the past, have unfortunately discovered. :oops: I have no further details at the moment regarding this IntelliValve field upgrade.
(c) New IntelliValves sold at some point will NOT require this field upgrade as they will already possess the necessary firmware.​
(d) The Mobile apps will be the first to have the ability to control the IntelliValve upgrade features. The web-client will NOT have this ability until that platform is redesigned. At that time, it will also possess these features.​
Click to expand...
Thanks for the update, and ugh on the valves requiring a field upgrade. Ideally, someone will figure out how to upgrade the valves and post instructions.

This seems like a classic case of them launching a product well before they could deliver the fully promised product.
 
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R, Thanks for the update.

The IntelliValves needing a firmware update is a bummer but not surprising.

I doubt Pentair will do it at no charge for IntelliValves no longer under warranty although it would be great for customer relations if they did.

The cost of dispatching service to pools to update IntelliValves is greater then the value of the valves.

Pentair should implement an IntelliValve exchange program. Give them a CC# and they ship you new Intellivalves and you have 60 days to ship back your old valves or your CC will be charged.

Or setup Pentair dealers or service depots where you can bring your IntelliValves to be upgraded while you wait at no or nominal cost.

Any of these types of upgrade programs that are customer friendly been discussed?
 
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ajw22 said:
R, Thanks for the update.

The IntelliValves needing a firmware update is a bummer but not surprising.

I doubt Pentair will do it at no charge for IntelliValves no longer under warranty although it would be great for customer relations if they did.

The cost of dispatching service to pools to update IntelliValves is greater then the value of the valves.

Pentair should implement an IntelliValve exchange program. Give them a CC# and they ship you new Intellivalves and you have 60 days to ship back your old valves or your CC will be charged.

Or setup Pentair dealers or service depots where you can bring your IntelliValves to be upgraded while you wait at no or nominal cost.

Any of these types of upgrade programs that are customer friendly been discussed?
Click to expand...
Allen,
I concur. Unfortunately, I did not get a chance to get into the weeds on how this all would play out. And honesty, at the present time, I don't know if they have thought through all the particulars as well.

You bring up some very valid points. If I may, I would like to use your key points in an email and give them (Pentair) some "food for thought".
Thanks..
r.
 
Hold off on your email. I have more thoughts I will post later. And you can share my thoughts with them.
 
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Nice job, MyAZPool. Interesting thread. Can’t wait to read more. I have a couple of more intellivalves I’d like to install when the swim season gets closer.
 
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R,

If I was in charge of the IntelliValve upgrade I would first determine what the Pentair COG for an IntelliValve is. I am going to guess it is $25 or less. It is not good business for Pentair to spend more then that upgrading an IntelliValve.

Secondly I would implement a program that will delight the most owners of an IntelliValve. Customers whose IntelliValves are still under warranty and the many early adopters whose IntelliValves are no longer under warranty. Pentair should realize that IntelliValve owners are some of Pentairs best customers who likely got them with IntelliCenters and probably also have Pentair Pumps, SWGs and other equipment. Basically every Pentair customer who has $50 worth of IntelliValves has thousands of dollars of Pentair equipment. Pentair should not cheap out on the thousands of dollars customer for $50 of replacement equipment.

And finally Pentair should recognize the goodwill they can create in social media if they handle this upgrade well.

An upgrade program that dispatches service personnel is a money loser for Pentair. They might as well just send the customer replacement IntelliValves and it will cost Pentair less.

On IntelliValve operation…

Each IntelliValve has 25 numbered positions it can turn to over 180 degrees. I would expect to be able to specify in a circuit function any of the 25 positions as numbers for the valve to move to when the circuit is on.

Now rather than specify numbers, in CONFIGURATION being able to select an IntelliValve and see a list of the numbers with boxes next to it where labels can be entered. So for the RETURN valve I can label position 0 as POOL, position 24 as SPA, and position 18 as SPILLOVER for those times when I want to have some water flowing through the spa while in POOL mode.

Then I can specify a valve position in a circuit using the label entered rather then the number.

In summary I should be able to specify an Intellivalve position by number or user entered label that is moved to when the circuit is on. Multiple valves should be able to be controlled in a circuit.

There should also be a “manual” valve function where you select a valve and can pick a number or label for the valve to move to.

Questions?
 
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On redeveloping the web client to mirror the Pentair Home App…

I think that is an opportunity lost to have a more robust UI for the IntelliCenter on the web then what can be done on a phone app. A phone app has many UI restrictions with screen size, graphics, navigation, that a web app does not have.

I think that plan is a corporate cop out that they don’t have the creativity, time, or budget to design a good web UI. So just use the Pentair Home UI and get something out.

I use the IntelliCenter2 web app because it is a better UI than the phone apps. It would be a step backward to go to the web and find the same crippled UI that is on the phone.
 
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Why go the pre-named and purpose route? Let the user define and set the valve position like setting up a macro.

There are way too many variables from Pool to Pool and the people that will ultimately geek out on these valves are going to want complete control over the customization.

Or better yet just have them release the firmware on the valves and let the geniuses here hack them and handle the programming… you already know it’ll work better and be 100X easier to program.

Still waiting on a working heater bypass function😂
 
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ajw22 said:
Now rather than specify numbers, in CONFIGURATION being able to select an IntelliValve and see a list of the numbers with boxes next to it where labels can be entered.
Click to expand...
This makes perfect sense to me, where trying to decipher @MyAZPool's names made almost none. I'm not saying they didn't have merit, they just didn't mean anything to me. If I had an IntelliValve where my three-way is for my vac, I'd name three positions "Vac", "70/30", "Skim". But I wouldn't expect anyone else to make use of that, or even know what they mean. Why is Pentair seeking or even considering a built-in list of names from which to choose? Allen's solution is the right one: numbered positions that can be named anything the user wants.

I rarely find a suitable baked-in name in such interfaces, and always prefer my own. I would be annoyed if I couldn't customize the labels. That seems like a simpler solution: instead of coming up with names, just make them all customizable! Any user seeking a multi-position valve isn't going to need a preset list of labels to get inspiration for how to use the valve, they already know how many positions they need and what they want to use them for.

Sidebar: I haven't really followed IntelliValve much. I don't have a need for one. But it seems like it's been going on for years. Why is this considered an upgrade? I thought the ability to select more than two positions was always a feature, just one that never worked. In which case, this isn't an upgrade, it's a repair, and one that shouldn't be offered only to those still under warranty, but rather to every owner of this "faulty-out-of-the-box" product. And at no cost. Pardon if I'm remembering the story wrong.
 
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bdavis466 said:
Why go the pre-named and purpose route? Let the user define and set the valve position like setting up a macro.

There are way too many variables from Pool to Pool and the people that will ultimately geek out on these valves are going to want complete control over the customization.
Click to expand...
1. How have you hacked into my screen?!
2. How did you type what I was typing faster than I could type it!?!
 
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Dirk said:
Sidebar: I haven't really followed IntelliValve much. I don't have a need for one. But it seems like it's been going on for years. Why is this considered an upgrade? I thought the ability to select more than two positions was always a feature, just one that never worked. In which case, this isn't an upgrade, it's a repair, and one that shouldn't be offered only to those still under warranty, but rather to every owner of this "faulty-out-off-the-box" product. And at no cost. Pardon if I'm remembering the story wrong.
Click to expand...

You can paint the situation that way. The IntelliValve never did more than the dumb actuator. And Pentair said the Intelli features were to be come in a future update.

If this was a car the feature would be installed at no cost by the dealer or Tesla would do an OTA update.
 
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ajw22 said:
On redeveloping the web client to mirror the Pentair Home App…

I think that is an opportunity lost to have a more robust UI for the IntelliCenter on the web then what can be done on a phone app. A phone app has many UI restrictions with screen size, graphics, navigation, that a web app does not have.

I think that plan is a corporate cop out that they don’t have the creativity, time, or budget to design a good web UI. So just use the Pentair Home UI and get something out.

I use the IntelliCenter2 web app because it is a better UI than the phone apps. It would be a step backward to go to the web and find the same crippled UI that is on the phone.
Click to expand...
Allen,
I agree.
Maybe the term "mirror" was the wrong choice in words. Of course it will be a more "robust interface" (to use your term), than the mobile apps.

I merely meant that they (web-client & mobile apps), will look and feel similar, if what I gleaned from the meeting is correct. In other words, when all is said and done, if you were to put the two side-by-side, you should see that they will utilize similar backgrounds, fonts, colors, etc., etc.

i.e. The web-client will no longer look and feel like something that was taken from a WIN3.1 interface. Just think "Facelift" with additional features/menus etc.. That was my take-away from their descriptions of scope-of-work anyway.
r.
 
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bdavis466 said:
Why go the pre-named and purpose route? Let the user define and set the valve position like setting up a macro.

There are way too many variables from Pool to Pool and the people that will ultimately geek out on these valves are going to want complete control over the customization.
Click to expand...
@bdavis466 and @Dirk
The use of pre-named pull-downs and purpose fields deserve some clarification. The pre-named pull-downs and purpose fields are for the user's information ONLY. Not to tell the IntelliValve where to position the valve diverter.
There are 48 valve diverter positions on the IntelliValve. Each position moves the valve diverter 3.75 degrees incrementally for a total of 180 degrees. The user will have a pull-down in which to select any of those positions (0-48). Again, the valve name pull-down and purpose fields are there just to help the user define a valve "name" (instead of valve 1, 2, etc.), and to help the user remember what that particular valve actuator's purpose is. That's all.
Hope that clarifies that a bit more.

Or better yet just have them release the firmware on the valves and let the geniuses here hack them and handle the programming… you already know it’ll work better and be 100X easier to program.
Click to expand...
If I had a dollar for every time that I have broached the topic of source code release, well. you know the rest. Yup, you're certainly right though.

Still waiting on a working heater bypass function
Click to expand...
Thanks for reminder. That one fell off my radar on this last call. I'll shoot them a query and see if there is any further movement on that front.. I agree it's been a while now.
r.
 
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ajw22 said:
R,

If I was in charge of the IntelliValve upgrade I would first determine what the Pentair COG for an IntelliValve is. I am going to guess it is $25 or less. It is not good business for Pentair to spend more then that upgrading an IntelliValve.

Secondly I would implement a program that will delight the most owners of an IntelliValve. Customers whose IntelliValves are still under warranty and the many early adopters whose IntelliValves are no longer under warranty. Pentair should realize that IntelliValve owners are some of Pentairs best customers who likely got them with IntelliCenters and probably also have Pentair Pumps, SWGs and other equipment. Basically every Pentair customer who has $50 worth of IntelliValves has thousands of dollars of Pentair equipment. Pentair should not cheap out on the thousands of dollars customer for $50 of replacement equipment.

And finally Pentair should recognize the goodwill they can create in social media if they handle this upgrade well.

An upgrade program that dispatches service personnel is a money loser for Pentair. They might as well just send the customer replacement IntelliValves and it will cost Pentair less.
Click to expand...
Allen,
Gotcha. Thanks for the great points. I'll pass your suggestions along and hopefully they can implement something better than having a field rep come to everyone's house for a service call. (y)

ajw22 said:
On IntelliValve operation…

Each IntelliValve has 25 numbered positions it can turn to over 180 degrees. I would expect to be able to specify in a circuit function any of the 25 positions as numbers for the valve to move to when the circuit is on.

Now rather than specify numbers, in CONFIGURATION being able to select an IntelliValve and see a list of the numbers with boxes next to it where labels can be entered. So for the RETURN valve I can label position 0 as POOL, position 24 as SPA, and position 18 as SPILLOVER for those times when I want to have some water flowing through the spa while in POOL mode.

Then I can specify a valve position in a circuit using the label entered rather then the number.

In summary I should be able to specify an Intellivalve position by number or user entered label that is moved to when the circuit is on. Multiple valves should be able to be controlled in a circuit.
Click to expand...
See my further comments/clarification to @bdavis466 and @Dirk above.

ajw22 said:
There should also be a “manual” valve function where you select a valve and can pick a number or label for the valve to move to.
Click to expand...
I really like the idea of having a "manual" function embedded in the software as you describe the function. Not sure it's doable but I'll certainly bring it up in an email.

Thanks much.
r.
 
MyAZPool said:
I really like the idea of having a "manual" function embedded in the software as you describe the function. Not sure it's doable but I'll certainly bring it up in an email.
Click to expand...
Why not doable?

Manually changing valve position is like changing pump RPM or SWG % or heater setpoint. It is temporary until a circuit ends or a circuit begins that moves the valve.
 
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MyAZPool said:
The use of pre-named pull-downs and purpose fields deserve some clarification. The pre-named pull-downs and purpose fields are for the user's information ONLY. Not to tell the IntelliValve where to position the valve diverter.
There are 48 valve diverter positions on the IntelliValve. Each position moves the valve diverter 3.75 degrees incrementally for a total of 180 degrees. The user will have a pull-down in which to select any of those positions (0-48). Again, the valve name pull-down and purpose fields are there just to help the user define a valve "name" (instead of valve 1, 2, etc.), and to help the user remember what that particular valve actuator's purpose is. That's all.
Hope that clarifies that a bit more.
Click to expand...
No, I got all that. It's just like my cams. They have presets. They come numbered from the factory. I set my cam's position and then can assign that position to any preset. In a separate interface, I can name the preset. Trying to remember even one cam's preset positions by number is near impossible. Times the number of cams I have, numbered presets would be unusable.

My cams don't come with names preassigned. Like "left, right, yard, door, lock" etc. There are no drop down menus from which to select a hard-coded label. That would be of very limited use, if of any use at all. Each user would want to name them themselves. There would be no logical way to pre-guess what even some users would want, let alone what thousands will need. So they are left generic (Preset 1, Preset 2, etc), and the user is allowed to replace "Preset X" with text.

One of my cams doesn't allow spaces in preset labels, making me use an underscore instead, and that is off-putting. Just lazy programing. But that colors my perception of the entire product line, the entire brand. I'm an advanced user with advanced expectations. That was my point about the IntelliValve. Average users don't even know the difference between a two- or three-way valve! They are not the buyers of an IntelliValve. Its target user base is going to be advanced users. They'll likely have similar advanced expectations. If Pentair wants to keep that user base happy, then they should seek and meet their expectations. And involving you in the process is a great step in that direction, so that's encouraging.
 
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Wow, cant believe this is alive again. I had basically given up on this.

Turns out like most things I dont really need multiple positions. I mean it will probably be nice to have on one or two of my valves, but I guess I am underwhelmed.

In any case its in great hands with @MyAZPool and look forward to seeing the outcome.
 
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