Inconsistent Temp/Plumbing Modification?

Barracudamuscle · Dec 3, 2023

Hello,

A little history, my pool is 3 years old now and has a spa that spills over into the pool if it's not in spa mode. I had automation installed about 6 months after by a local outfit with some issues(below).

I had an erratic temp and changed the probe about 6 months ago, calibrated it through the Jandy app.

Today I set the schedule to turn the hot tub on at 100 degrees at 5AM, woke up and it read 83 and my digital meat temp probe showed 104.5. I cycled the spa off to fill the hot tub with cold pool water to get the temp down to 100 again. I've seen these inconsistent temp readings off and on.

Upon reducing the temp with cold pool water, and going back to hot tub mode the temp prob read correctly. I think the issue is the placement of the sensor since the pool automation installer originally placed it downstream of the heater (incorrect), and subsequently put it upstream of the heater, but on a deadhead with no flow for a future solar heater we have no plans to use.

My question is this, what's the best way to fix this? My logic tells me the sensor needs to measure flowing water temp before the heater. Is it better to remove the pipe assembly between the filter and make it a straight pipe and install the sensor there, or should I look into how to plug the existing hole leaving the existing pipe assembly and install it on the elbow by the heater that says probe, or perhaps the one on the pump side before the filter?

I'd like to have my system read accurate temp so I don't wake up to a lobster boil when wanting to use the hot tub.

Thanks for your time!

ajw22 · Dec 3, 2023

That stub is a dumb place to put the water sensor. There is no flow past the sensor as the water temperatures changes.

You can replace the stubs with a straight pipe and put the sensor in the pipe or you can put the sensor on the pipe between the pump and filter.

generessler · Dec 3, 2023

Yeah. That sensor location is kind of crazy. I'm not an expert, but my own heater install had problems, and I ended up re-plumbing. All good at 2.5 years. Your layout is obviously very tight. I personally would find a way to get the sensor in the heater intake line. This will be necessary if you ever do the solar heater anyway. Drilling into an elbow seems like a leak waiting to happen. You could look at replacing the long sweep 90 just before the heater with a standard (not street) 90. This might make just enough of a gap to squeeze the sensor in. The sweep is nice but not necessary. You can minimize what needs to be replaced with a fitting reamer. For the existing hole, just cut the stub there and re-cap.

Ahultin · Dec 4, 2023

Barracudamuscle said:
I had automation installed about 6 months after by a local outfit with some issues(below).

I assume jandy aqualink- attached screenshot shows that the temp sensor is to be installed between pump and filter

Screenshot_20231203_220315_Acrobat for Samsung.jpg

Barracudamuscle said:
for a future solar heater we have no plans to use.

The future stub is wrong anyhow as the tee prior to the temp sensor would need to be a jandy 3 way for solar install

Barracudamuscle said:
plug the existing hole

Easiest solution, Cut the stub at the sensor hole amd use a pvc coupler to restore to original .

DavidLast · Dec 4, 2023

If you are capable of it, please cut out and remove the upstand pipe work that is blocked off. That is very bad practice, unfortunately too common to count, but very bad practice.

I think installing the sensor into this pipe directly will give the best temperature control.

Ahultin · Dec 4, 2023

DavidLast said:
If you are capable of it, please cut out and remove the upstand pipe work that is blocked off. That is very bad practice, unfortunately too common to count, but very bad practice.

Given that the ops pool is ~3yrs old, I would venture to guess this was done in order to comply with California title 24 requirements and get final building permit sign off:
SECTION 110.4(B) TO ALLOW FOR THE FUTURE ADDITION OF SOLAR HEATING EQUIPMENT, AT LEAST 36" OF PIPE IS INSTALLED BETWEEN THE FILTER AND HEATER, OR DEDICATED SUCTION AND RETURN LINES ARE INSTALLED, OR BUILT-IN OR BUILT-UP CONNECTIONS FOR FUTURE SOLAR HEATING ARE PROVIDED

DavidLast · Dec 4, 2023

I am not saying remove the 36 inches of pipe between the filter and heater. I am saying remove these non used upstands. Solar can still be cut in later. AN alternative is to cut a valve in between them and then plumb them so water is flowing through them and the main pipe.

Ahultin · Dec 4, 2023

DavidLast said:
I am not saying remove the 36 inches of pipe between the filter and heater. I am saying remove these non used upstands. Solar can still be cut in later. AN alternative is to cut a valve in between them and then plumb them so water is flowing through them and the main pipe.

Right - but in this case there is not 36" of straight pipe so it appears the builder provided the alternative of "BUILT-IN OR BUILT-UP CONNECTIONS FOR FUTURE SOLAR HEATING ARE PROVIDED"

DavidLast · Dec 4, 2023

Ahultin said:
Right - but in this case there is not 36" of straight pipe so it appears the builder provided the alternative of "BUILT-IN OR BUILT-UP CONNECTIONS FOR FUTURE SOLAR HEATING ARE PROVIDED"

So put the valve in and plumb so water flows through. 2.5 pd is a dead water area. Would it be reasonable to leave a dead water area sit in the pool where you can see it? What about where you cant?

1poolman1 · Dec 4, 2023

Barracudamuscle said:
Hello,

A little history, my pool is 3 years old now and has a spa that spills over into the pool if it's not in spa mode. I had automation installed about 6 months after by a local outfit with some issues(below).

I had an erratic temp and changed the probe about 6 months ago, calibrated it through the Jandy app.

Today I set the schedule to turn the hot tub on at 100 degrees at 5AM, woke up and it read 83 and my digital meat temp probe showed 104.5. I cycled the spa off to fill the hot tub with cold pool water to get the temp down to 100 again. I've seen these inconsistent temp readings off and on.

Upon reducing the temp with cold pool water, and going back to hot tub mode the temp prob read correctly. I think the issue is the placement of the sensor since the pool automation installer originally placed it downstream of the heater (incorrect), and subsequently put it upstream of the heater, but on a deadhead with no flow for a future solar heater we have no plans to use.

My question is this, what's the best way to fix this? My logic tells me the sensor needs to measure flowing water temp before the heater. Is it better to remove the pipe assembly between the filter and make it a straight pipe and install the sensor there, or should I look into how to plug the existing hole leaving the existing pipe assembly and install it on the elbow by the heater that says probe, or perhaps the one on the pump side before the filter?

I'd like to have my system read accurate temp so I don't wake up to a lobster boil when wanting to use the hot tub.

Thanks for your time!

If you can't move the temp sensor (you can, but will need a larger hose clamp), just set your desired temp on the heater itself until the change can be made. Regardless of the temp set in the automation, the heater control should override. Best guess unless the heater is controlled via the RS 485 connection.

That "future solar" plumbing is worthless if solar is ever considered.

Barracudamuscle · Dec 5, 2023

Wow, so many replies thank you everyone for your perspective. I wasn't aware of the California code wanting solar options installed. I'll be frank, now that I've passed the permitting I don't care about it haha. I've got solar panels on my roof and no desire to ever go the solar heat route.

I'm thinking maybe the best path for me is to remove the entire assembly between the filters altogether in one piece. Determining what couplers I'm going to need to connect a new straight pipe between the filter and the heater and install the sensor in the section.

I don't see a major difference measuring the temp after the pump before the filter as stated in the manual posted, versus after the filter before the heater. I'm not too inclined to put a sensor on between the pump and filter because the only options without a drastic replumb are in the elbows which may be prone to leaking.

By keeping the entire assembly, if I ever have any issues from the city I can reinstall the existing pipe assembly.

Does this seem like a decent idea or am I overlooking something? Biggest hurdle is determining the fittings to connect the new pipe to.

Thanks for your time!

1poolman1 · Dec 5, 2023

Barracudamuscle said:
Wow, so many replies thank you everyone for your perspective. I wasn't aware of the California code wanting solar options installed. I'll be frank, now that I've passed the permitting I don't care about it haha. I've got solar panels on my roof and no desire to ever go the solar heat route.

I'm thinking maybe the best path for me is to remove the entire assembly between the filters altogether in one piece. Determining what couplers I'm going to need to connect a new straight pipe between the filter and the heater and install the sensor in the section.

I don't see a major difference measuring the temp after the pump before the filter as stated in the manual posted, versus after the filter before the heater. I'm not too inclined to put a sensor on between the pump and filter because the only options without a drastic replumb are in the elbows which may be prone to leaking.

By keeping the entire assembly, if I ever have any issues from the city I can reinstall the existing pipe assembly.

Does this seem like a decent idea or am I overlooking something? Biggest hurdle is determining the fittings to connect the new pipe to.

Thanks for your time!

With a larger hose clamp, you can install the temp sensor in the side of either of the Tees that are after the filter. It doesn't have to be in the top of a pipe, but does need to be where the water will flow past it.
It appears there is enough room for you cut the vertical pipe where the sensor is now just (you only need about 1.5" for the cap to fit properly), glue a 2" cap on the stub, and you will be good. Be sure to sand the paint of the pipe that will be glued. No need for a bunch of replumbing this way and the location of the sensor will give you as accurate a reading as needed. I have always preferred after the filter instead of before as the sensors seemed to last longer with cleaner water going past them, they're just plastic-housed thermistor.

Barracudamuscle · Dec 5, 2023

1poolman1 said:
With a larger hose clamp, you can install the temp sensor in the side of either of the Tees that are after the filter. It doesn't have to be in the top of a pipe, but does need to be where the water will flow past it.
It appears there is enough room for you cut the vertical pipe where the sensor is now just (you only need about 1.5" for the cap to fit properly), glue a 2" cap on the stub, and you will be good. Be sure to sand the paint of the pipe that will be glued. No need for a bunch of replumbing this way and the location of the sensor will give you as accurate a reading as needed. I have always preferred after the filter instead of before as the sensors seemed to last longer with cleaner water going past them, they're just plastic-housed thermistor.

That’s a good idea, just cut/sand/cap the solar runs. Any issues drilling into the T and putting the sensor on either side of the vertical portion on?

From the picture essentially I’m thinking of moving the sensor to the T so it’s inline with the water flow. As long as the clamp has enough meat on the T to sit straight and clamp the sensor I think it’s a good easy fix.

1poolman1 · Dec 6, 2023

Barracudamuscle said:
That’s a good idea, just cut/sand/cap the solar runs. Any issues drilling into the T and putting the sensor on either side of the vertical portion on?

From the picture essentially I’m thinking of moving the sensor to the T so it’s inline with the water flow. As long as the clamp has enough meat on the T to sit straight and clamp the sensor I think it’s a good easy fix.

No problem. Usually takes a slightly larger hose clamp to go around a fitting, but it works, I've done it many time.
An added benefit is that with double the thickness of pipe the the sensor is through, there is far less distortion of the pipe under the pressure of the hose clamp.
As the pipe/water approaches 90 degrees +/- it starts to soften and relax. Then the sensor starts to leak. Then you tighten the clamp more, which distorts the pipe more, and pretty soon the pipe has to be cut out as it is too deformed to have the O ring that seals the sensor hold pressure.

Barracudamuscle · Dec 7, 2023

I cut and moved the sensor, here’s hoping to a more consistent temp reading. Thank you everyone for your help!

generessler · Dec 8, 2023

Probably okay, but the hole drilled through a Schedule 40 fitting joint would fail a code inspection. At pool pressure it seems unlikely to cause a problem, but definitely keep an eye on it for leaks.

1poolman1 · Dec 8, 2023

generessler said:
Probably okay, but the hole drilled through a Schedule 40 fitting joint would fail a code inspection. At pool pressure it seems unlikely to cause a problem, but definitely keep an eye on it for leaks.

Hasn't in 35 years of my experience. Not likely a pool inspector would even know to look for something like that if it were non-code.
Also have never had a pipe distort and the sensor leak from heat and having the clamp be re-tightened to stop that leak. Have repaired many, many that were leaking and the only fix was to cut out the pipe and install new. Would then drill the coupler/90, install the sensor through the double layer of pipe and never have a return call for a leak at the sensor.

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