Painted IG Gunite Pool. No Plaster, tile, or coping. For better or worse, the renovation has begun...

Powderboy said:

I was planning on a wet laid bluestone deck with bluestone coping, so not cantilevered. However, I can see how a poured cantilever concrete deck could work. It would require at least 5" thick coping in order to result in a 4" minimum slab thickness, and there would be a step in the slab (either up or down depending on location) around the perimeter of the pool. (The attached drawing shows what I mean.) There's a possibility that it might crack in one of those areas, but most likely not since settling shouldn't be an issue.

Unfortunately, I really don't like the look of a concrete deck, stamped or otherwise. Per the comments by @MAPR-Austin above, we're trying to maintain the natural look that we currently have. I'm sure that a stamped concrete deck can look "OK" until it cracks or discolors, but it can't hold a candle to the natural look of bluestone IMO.

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Powderboy said:

As described in some of my previous posts, I was planning to add material to the bond beam to level it. The question is - what's the best way to do that? Since the cold joint between the existing bond beam and the added concrete will run under the tile, I need the best possible bond between the layers in order to avoid problems with the waterline tile down the road. I outlined a few options/questions in my previous posts, but the thread kind of got side-tracked.

Since it’s a freeform pool in every way imaginable (nothing even close to level, or plumb) the situation is complicated and therefore difficult to summarize concisely. In order to further clarify my proposal/questions, following is a detailed summary of what I propose to do for the bond beam, tile, and coping. Hopefully some of you concrete experts out there will comment/correct/mock as appropriate:

• Thoroughly clean and scarify the existing bond beam.
• Epoxy anchor and tie #3 rebar around the perimeter of the pool. (See sketch below.)
• Attach ¼” plywood forms at finished height of extended bond beam.
• Saturate the existing bond beam with water.
• Shoot forms full with gunite, leveling top surface.
• Cover and keep moist for 7 days. Remove forms after 14 days.
• Apply waterproofing/isolation membrane (e.g. MiraPrime Aqua-Blok XL) to extended bond beam covering top, back, and front sides (including tile line on front side), overlapping cold joint on both sides.
• Attach tile ledger boards to the side of the pool.
• Apply Laticrete Platinum 254 bond coat to tile line.
• Apply Laticrete 3701 Fortified Mortar bed to tile line, ¼” thick.
• Apply waterproofing/isolation membrane (e.g. Miracote Membrane C) to tile line.
• Install porcelain waterline tile using Laticrete Platinum 254.
• Remove ledger boards and apply Miracote Membrane C to bottom edge of tile line.
• Grout tile using Laticrete Spectralok Pro Premium Epoxy Grout.
• Install bluestone coping using Laticrete Platinum 254.
• Grout coping with Type S mortar.
• Caulk joint between coping and tile with Sonneborn TX1 polyurethane caulk.

Questions related to the above procedure: 1) Should I apply a bonding agent to the top of the existing bond beam before shooting the gunite? If so, what do you recommend? 2) Should I apply a release agent to the forms? If so, what’s recommended and how do I remove it from the gunite after the forms are removed? 3) How far apart should I place the anchored rebar “staples”? 4) Anything else to add?

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Powderboy said:

As described in some of my previous posts, I was planning to add material to the bond beam to level it. The question is - what's the best way to do that? Since the cold joint between the existing bond beam and the added concrete will run under the tile, I need the best possible bond between the layers in order to avoid problems with the waterline tile down the road. I outlined a few options/questions in my previous posts, but the thread kind of got side-tracked.

Since it’s a freeform pool in every way imaginable (nothing even close to level, or plumb) the situation is complicated and therefore difficult to summarize concisely. In order to further clarify my proposal/questions, following is a detailed summary of what I propose to do for the bond beam, tile, and coping. Hopefully some of you concrete experts out there will comment/correct/mock as appropriate:

• Thoroughly clean and scarify the existing bond beam.
• Epoxy anchor and tie #3 rebar around the perimeter of the pool. (See sketch below.)
• Attach ¼” plywood forms at finished height of extended bond beam.
• Saturate the existing bond beam with water.
• Shoot forms full with gunite, leveling top surface.
• Cover and keep moist for 7 days. Remove forms after 14 days.
• Apply waterproofing/isolation membrane (e.g. MiraPrime Aqua-Blok XL) to extended bond beam covering top, back, and front sides (including tile line on front side), overlapping cold joint on both sides.
• Attach tile ledger boards to the side of the pool.
• Apply Laticrete Platinum 254 bond coat to tile line.
• Apply Laticrete 3701 Fortified Mortar bed to tile line, ¼” thick.
• Apply waterproofing/isolation membrane (e.g. Miracote Membrane C) to tile line.
• Install porcelain waterline tile using Laticrete Platinum 254.
• Remove ledger boards and apply Miracote Membrane C to bottom edge of tile line.
• Grout tile using Laticrete Spectralok Pro Premium Epoxy Grout.
• Install bluestone coping using Laticrete Platinum 254.
• Grout coping with Type S mortar.
• Caulk joint between coping and tile with Sonneborn TX1 polyurethane caulk.

Questions related to the above procedure: 1) Should I apply a bonding agent to the top of the existing bond beam before shooting the gunite? If so, what do you recommend? 2) Should I apply a release agent to the forms? If so, what’s recommended and how do I remove it from the gunite after the forms are removed? 3) How far apart should I place the anchored rebar “staples”? 4) Anything else to add?

Click to expand...

Powderboy said:

I was planning on a wet laid bluestone deck with bluestone coping, so not cantilevered. However, I can see how a poured cantilever concrete deck could work. It would require at least 5" thick coping in order to result in a 4" minimum slab thickness, and there would be a step in the slab (either up or down depending on location) around the perimeter of the pool. (The attached drawing shows what I mean.) There's a possibility that it might crack in one of those areas, but most likely not since settling shouldn't be an issue.

Unfortunately, I really don't like the look of a concrete deck, stamped or otherwise. Per the comments by @MAPR-Austin above, we're trying to maintain the natural look that we currently have. I'm sure that a stamped concrete deck can look "OK" until it cracks or discolors, but it can't hold a candle to the natural look of bluestone IMO.

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Powderboy said:

Thanks @PCR. I haven't seen this thread yet, but I'll definitely check it out. I appreciate all your input @Bperry. There are so many interrelated issues here that it's nearly impossible for me to understand all the tradeoffs without making detailed drawings. The drawing attached below shows another option with a cut down bond beam, poured concrete coping, and a wet laid bluestone deck. Although I originally thought that cutting down the bond beam might work, as shown in this new drawing, I would end up with less than 5" between the bottom of the coping and the top step in the shallow end. Although certainly not a show stopper, it's not as desirable as building up the bond beam IMO. FYI, Laticrete recommends the use of a Platinum 254 slurry as a bond coat for submerged applications. I've also seen a number of people recommend it on this forum as well.

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Powderboy said:

Hopefully some of you remember my postings from last year - mostly questions regarding my plans for this year's renovation. Well, the planning stage is now officially over!
If you're interested, my previous postings can be found here: Painted IG Gunite Pool. No Plaster, tile, or coping. Renovation options?

Day One - 3/24/2023 - Paint being hydro-blasted off the pool. Many layers of TOUGH stuff, unfortunately no longer available.
View attachment 483867

4/7/2023 - The photo on the left below shows where I dug out the existing plumbing lines from the equipment pad to the edge of the pool deck (equipment pad in upper right hand corner). Fortunately, the lines didn't run under the deck all the way from the pad, but were buried under the rock wall along the edge of the deck. Although not fun, digging out the rock wall was a lot easier that trying to cut through the existing 8" concrete deck. The lines are flexible PVC from the equipment pad the edge of the deck, transitioning to black poly before going under the deck. When we bought the house, the pool maintenance guy told me that the pad had been relocated further from the house to reduce the noise from the equipment, so I assume it must have previously been located in the area where the cinder blocks are in the photo.
The photo on the right shows where I chipped out the bluestone inlays around the edge of the pool. A small Bosch SDS-plus hammer drill with a pointed bit worked pretty well for this - took about 6 hours to hammer out all 25 of them. The empty holes will make great key-ways for the new raised bond beam, so I've got that going for me.
View attachment 483868View attachment 483875

4/8/2023 to 4/11/2023 - After the pool was hydro-blasted and had dried sufficiently, I found 4 long cracks extending from the top of the bond beam (and through it on top) all the way to the bottom of the pool. I'm not sure if they qualify as "structural cracks" since they really hadn't opened up much, but I decided to repair them using lock-ties since I wanted to be better safe than sorry. The photos below show a summary of that process. I marked the outlines and hole locations first using the templates provided, then drilled the holes. Next I dug out the cracks using a 3/8" "crack chaser" blade which you can see in one of the photos. (I chased the cracks all the way through the top of the bond beam since my bond beam is already exposed.) I then cut the outlines using a 4-1/2" diamond cutting wheel and chipped them out using the Bosch hammer drill. Before installing the lock-ties, I beveled the insides of the cut out cracks using the cutting wheel to leave an inverted V-shape in order to provide a key-way for the hydraulic cement. The final step was the hydraulic cement. Overall, the whole process (4 cracks and 20 lock-ties) took me the better part of 4 days to finish. The hardest part was chipping out the concrete - it took some time to get the depressions flat enough so that the lock-ties would sit flat against the back of the cut outs. I got pretty good with the chipping hammer by the time I had all 20 cut-outs finished! The hydraulic cement took a lot longer than I initially thought too, mainly because I under-estimated how much would be needed - I used about 45 pounds for all 4 cracks, which took awhile at 1 to 2 pounds per batch.
View attachment 483888View attachment 483889View attachment 483904View attachment 483897View attachment 483893View attachment 483898View attachment 483903

It appears that I've reached my limit of 10 photos, so that's all for now. Next up is scaffolding construction and skimmer demo, so stay tuned. And there's a lot more to come after that, so check out my previous posts for a preview if you're interested. Thanks for looking!

Click to expand...

Powderboy said:

Hopefully some of you remember my postings from last year - mostly questions regarding my plans for this year's renovation. Well, the planning stage is now officially over!
If you're interested, my previous postings can be found here: Painted IG Gunite Pool. No Plaster, tile, or coping. Renovation options?

Day One - 3/24/2023 - Paint being hydro-blasted off the pool. Many layers of TOUGH stuff, unfortunately no longer available.
View attachment 483867

4/7/2023 - The photo on the left below shows where I dug out the existing plumbing lines from the equipment pad to the edge of the pool deck (equipment pad in upper right hand corner). Fortunately, the lines didn't run under the deck all the way from the pad, but were buried under the rock wall along the edge of the deck. Although not fun, digging out the rock wall was a lot easier that trying to cut through the existing 8" concrete deck. The lines are flexible PVC from the equipment pad the edge of the deck, transitioning to black poly before going under the deck. When we bought the house, the pool maintenance guy told me that the pad had been relocated further from the house to reduce the noise from the equipment, so I assume it must have previously been located in the area where the cinder blocks are in the photo.
The photo on the right shows where I chipped out the bluestone inlays around the edge of the pool. A small Bosch SDS-plus hammer drill with a pointed bit worked pretty well for this - took about 6 hours to hammer out all 25 of them. The empty holes will make great key-ways for the new raised bond beam, so I've got that going for me.
View attachment 483868View attachment 483875

4/8/2023 to 4/11/2023 - After the pool was hydro-blasted and had dried sufficiently, I found 4 long cracks extending from the top of the bond beam (and through it on top) all the way to the bottom of the pool. I'm not sure if they qualify as "structural cracks" since they really hadn't opened up much, but I decided to repair them using lock-ties since I wanted to be better safe than sorry. The photos below show a summary of that process. I marked the outlines and hole locations first using the templates provided, then drilled the holes. Next I dug out the cracks using a 3/8" "crack chaser" blade which you can see in one of the photos. (I chased the cracks all the way through the top of the bond beam since my bond beam is already exposed.) I then cut the outlines using a 4-1/2" diamond cutting wheel and chipped them out using the Bosch hammer drill. Before installing the lock-ties, I beveled the insides of the cut out cracks using the cutting wheel to leave an inverted V-shape in order to provide a key-way for the hydraulic cement. The final step was the hydraulic cement. Overall, the whole process (4 cracks and 20 lock-ties) took me the better part of 4 days to finish. The hardest part was chipping out the concrete - it took some time to get the depressions flat enough so that the lock-ties would sit flat against the back of the cut outs. I got pretty good with the chipping hammer by the time I had all 20 cut-outs finished! The hydraulic cement took a lot longer than I initially thought too, mainly because I under-estimated how much would be needed - I used about 45 pounds for all 4 cracks, which took awhile at 1 to 2 pounds per batch.
View attachment 483888View attachment 483889View attachment 483904View attachment 483897View attachment 483893View attachment 483898View attachment 483903

It appears that I've reached my limit of 10 photos, so that's all for now. Next up is scaffolding construction and skimmer demo, so stay tuned. And there's a lot more to come after that, so check out my previous posts for a preview if you're interested. Thanks for looking!

Click to expand...

Powderboy said:

4/15/2023 - This morning I finished digging out the other skimmer before returning the jackhammer and wet saw. This skimmer was definitely installed better, no signs of big voids here, just super-hard concrete surrounding the entire skimmer and all of the lines. Since this skimmer is at the shallow end, less fill was needed, so less settling. You can see what's left of the bottom of the skimmer below (with the rag stuffed in it). You can also see the black poly return line just below that. Although this dig was a lot harder (definitely NOT enjoyable), I won't have to dig any further than this because my plan is to plug the existing skimmer ports and use the existing suction lines for the main drains only. Since I'm raising the bond beam to level the pool, the new skimmers will sit above the level of the old skimmers (3" higher in this case, and over 4" higher in the other). This will give me enough clearance to install the new skimmers above the old abandoned skimmer ports with new dedicated 2" lines running back to the equipment pad. I also plan to reuse the existing returns, at least up to the point where they attach to the flexible PVC lines at the edge of the deck. At least that's the plan for now...
View attachment 484768

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