My teeth are fine, but I had to take a few days off to let my back recover. Should be back at it on Monday. 
Painted IG Gunite Pool. No Plaster, tile, or coping. For better or worse, the renovation has begun...
- Thread starter Powderboy
- Start date
I just stumbled across this thread. We are in CT doing a pool reno from the 1970s that was painted as well!! You are taking yours on yourself?! Amazing!! It’s insanely expensive otherwise 
Hi Liza. Yes, I'm doing it myself. I really didn't want to do it myself, since I have a lot of other projects on the back burner, but I literally could not find ANY builders/renovators who were willing to take it on. After numerous calls, I only got 2 builders to come out and look at it. They both said they could do it, and would send a quote 'next week', but neither ever got back to me despite numerous follow-up calls and subequent promises. Can't say I blame them (except for stringing me along) since a renovation like this really is a can of worms once you get into it. Lots of new discoveries to slow you down and add to the cost. One advantage of doing it myself is that I had to REALLY get serious about what I wanted to accomplish with the renovation. I also started to feel like I was finally accomplishing something after 2 years of failing to find a contractor to do it for me.
Good luck with your project. Hope you have a good contractor if you're not doing it yourself.
Good luck with your project. Hope you have a good contractor if you're not doing it yourself.
4-24-2023 - My plumbing plans changed this morning when I discovered that I accidentally punched a hole in one of the return lines during my jack-hammering marathon. 
In hindsight, I spent too much time with the big boy hammer. That thing got really heavy by the end of the day. I should have switched to the little guy much sooner. Who said "I won't have to dig any further than this" ?!?
After 2 hours of digging with the small hammer, I uncovered enough of the return line to allow me to cut it off and attach an extension. The good news is that the line coming out of the pool is actually grey PVC, not black poly, so attaching an extension should be a lot easier and more reliable than if it were black poly. You can see in the photo on the right where the Grey PVC is glued to a coupling, which is then glued to a barbed socket fitting, which is in turn clamped to the black poly.
Uncovering the other skimmer lines revealed essentially the same thing. Not sure why they used grey PVC for the returns and white for the skimmers, but it's good news for me. What you can't see in the photo below is that the black poly pipes attached to the 45deg PVC elbows only extend for about 3-4 feet out of the hole before they make another transition to the flexible PVC lines next to the deck. Once I discovered this, I decided to change my plans and abandon the black poly pipes altogether in favor of PVC for everything. Now that my exploratory excavation is complete, it's time to go order some plumbing parts...
In hindsight, I spent too much time with the big boy hammer. That thing got really heavy by the end of the day. I should have switched to the little guy much sooner. Who said "I won't have to dig any further than this" ?!?After 2 hours of digging with the small hammer, I uncovered enough of the return line to allow me to cut it off and attach an extension. The good news is that the line coming out of the pool is actually grey PVC, not black poly, so attaching an extension should be a lot easier and more reliable than if it were black poly. You can see in the photo on the right where the Grey PVC is glued to a coupling, which is then glued to a barbed socket fitting, which is in turn clamped to the black poly.
Uncovering the other skimmer lines revealed essentially the same thing. Not sure why they used grey PVC for the returns and white for the skimmers, but it's good news for me. What you can't see in the photo below is that the black poly pipes attached to the 45deg PVC elbows only extend for about 3-4 feet out of the hole before they make another transition to the flexible PVC lines next to the deck. Once I discovered this, I decided to change my plans and abandon the black poly pipes altogether in favor of PVC for everything. Now that my exploratory excavation is complete, it's time to go order some plumbing parts...
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Well at least you saw it BEFORE turning on the water and wonder why that are was wet!!
That’s just weird. They really use bad clamps on the pipes underground?4-24-2023 - My plumbing plans changed this morning when I discovered that I accidentally punched a hole in one of the return lines during my jack-hammering marathon.
View attachment 488707
After 2 hours of digging with the small hammer, I uncovered enough of the return line to allow me to cut it off and attach an extension. The good news is that the line coming out of the pool is actually grey PVC, not black poly, so attaching an extension should be a lot easier and more reliable than if it were black poly. You can see in the photo on the right where the Grey PVC is glued so a coupling, which is then glued to a barbed socket fitting, which is turn clamped to the black poly.
View attachment 488708View attachment 488711
Uncovering the other skimmer lines revealed essentially the same thing. Not sure why they used grey PVC for the returns and white for the skimmers, but it's good news for me. What you can't see in the photo below is that the black poly pipes attached to the 45deg PVC elbows only extend for about 3-4 feet out of the hole before they make another transition to the flexible PVC lines next to the deck. Once I discovered this, I decided to change my plans and abandon the black poly pipes altogether in favor of PVC for everything. Now that my exploratory excavation is complete, it's time to go order some plumbing parts...
View attachment 488716
Yeah, you can't glue black poly pipe. Barbed fittings and band clamps are used instead. They seem to have done a good job on the terminations - two stainless steel clamps were used and they were installed in opposing directions. They also used some kind of silicone caulk on the barbs when they put them together. But I've read that it's tricky to install them right since you need to heat up the pipe to get the barbed fitting in all the way, so I wasn't all that keen on trying to do it myself and then burying it all under concrete with my fingers crossed. So getting rid of the black poly was kind of a no-brainer once I discovered that the damaged return line was actually PVC and not black poly.
5/2/23 – I started the day by grinding the residual paint from the tile line and skimmer openings. I used an angle grinder with a 4.5” Ridgid grinding wheel from HD. It ground down pretty easily, but the entire disc was toast by the time I was done. I used the same kind of disc to do a LOT more grinding on my 5000 psi garage floor slab and it still had some life left in it when I was done, so this 45 year old pool shell is tough
stuff for sure!
I used the 3/8” crack chaser tool to get into the corners of the skimmer openings. I’ll be cutting out the skimmer openings so that the sides are straight (rather than rounded off) so they're easier to tile. I should be able to cut out the concrete using an angle grinder and 4.5” diamond wheel since the new skimmers will sit about 3” to 4” higher than the old ones. What’s left of the existing openings will be filled with concrete when the bond beam is built up.
Grinding the tile line only took a few hours, so I spent the rest of the day investigating my light situation. I have an old Paragon Swimlite 500 pool light. This thing is ancient, so I need to replace it since no parts are available. It’s a twin-halogen light that still works fine after 45 years (how many people with LED lights can say that?), but it’s time has come.
Although the light is not very deep, there should be just enough room in the existing niche to fit a Pentair Amerlite without too many modifications. Removing the existing potting compound from the bonding connection AND the conduit was a bit of a challenge, however. Using a heat gun, I was able to soften the epoxy enough to pick it out a little bit at a time with a utility knife. Getting it off the bonding connection was pretty easy using this method. I had to stop using the heat gun once I got down to the PVC conduit in order to avoid melting it. From then on, I used a drill with a long 1/8” x 18” bit and some automotive picks to alternately drill into a small section of potting compound and then pick it out a little bit at a time. The wires were still pretty flexible, so that made it easier to move them around as I picked out the compound from different areas around the wires. Patience was the key here; it took me over an hour to get it all out since the potting compound extended about 1.5” into the conduit!
The photo below shows the end result with all of the potting compound removed. There’s a rather small set screw in the center of the bonding lug, but I’m reluctant to try turning it since I don’t want to damage it. I think the bonding wire is still flexible enough to allow me to remove it from the conduit without disconnecting it from the bonding lug in the niche, but if I can get the new light wire pulled without removing the existing bonding wire then I won’t mess with it.
I’ve read that the potting compound shouldn’t be used on the conduit, but I’m wondering if they potted the conduit opening due to a leak in the conduit. If it is leaking, the leak is probably at the point where the conduit connects to the niche, so I’ll probably end up sealing that area with some polyurethane caulk, which I think should work better than potting compound for that application.
stuff for sure!
I used the 3/8” crack chaser tool to get into the corners of the skimmer openings. I’ll be cutting out the skimmer openings so that the sides are straight (rather than rounded off) so they're easier to tile. I should be able to cut out the concrete using an angle grinder and 4.5” diamond wheel since the new skimmers will sit about 3” to 4” higher than the old ones. What’s left of the existing openings will be filled with concrete when the bond beam is built up.
Grinding the tile line only took a few hours, so I spent the rest of the day investigating my light situation. I have an old Paragon Swimlite 500 pool light. This thing is ancient, so I need to replace it since no parts are available. It’s a twin-halogen light that still works fine after 45 years (how many people with LED lights can say that?), but it’s time has come.
Although the light is not very deep, there should be just enough room in the existing niche to fit a Pentair Amerlite without too many modifications. Removing the existing potting compound from the bonding connection AND the conduit was a bit of a challenge, however. Using a heat gun, I was able to soften the epoxy enough to pick it out a little bit at a time with a utility knife. Getting it off the bonding connection was pretty easy using this method. I had to stop using the heat gun once I got down to the PVC conduit in order to avoid melting it. From then on, I used a drill with a long 1/8” x 18” bit and some automotive picks to alternately drill into a small section of potting compound and then pick it out a little bit at a time. The wires were still pretty flexible, so that made it easier to move them around as I picked out the compound from different areas around the wires. Patience was the key here; it took me over an hour to get it all out since the potting compound extended about 1.5” into the conduit!
The photo below shows the end result with all of the potting compound removed. There’s a rather small set screw in the center of the bonding lug, but I’m reluctant to try turning it since I don’t want to damage it. I think the bonding wire is still flexible enough to allow me to remove it from the conduit without disconnecting it from the bonding lug in the niche, but if I can get the new light wire pulled without removing the existing bonding wire then I won’t mess with it.
I’ve read that the potting compound shouldn’t be used on the conduit, but I’m wondering if they potted the conduit opening due to a leak in the conduit. If it is leaking, the leak is probably at the point where the conduit connects to the niche, so I’ll probably end up sealing that area with some polyurethane caulk, which I think should work better than potting compound for that application.
5/3/2023 – Scabbling day. I used a cheap 16 point SDS-plus bushing head that I found on Amazon to scabble the top of the bond beam in preparation for applying the new gunite on top. When I first tried using the 1-3/4” x 1-3/4” bushing head, I thought there was no way that I could possibly do the entire +100 sq-ft bond beam with such a little tool. But since I couldn’t find any more powerful scabblers to rent for a decent price, I decided to give the little guy another try. After a bit of practice and the right downward pressure on the tool, I was able to get it going so that it kind of hovered over the surface of the concrete as I moved it around. The photo below shows the concrete surface before and after scabbling.
The surface profile is a little more evident in the picture below. It looks like I achieved an average surface roughness of about 1/8” inch between the peaks and valleys, which I think is about a CSP of 8. You can also see a line of grey hydraulic cement on the top of the bond beam where I previously filled one of the structural cracks in the pool wall. I’m really happy with how tightly the hydraulic cement filled everything in, leaving no residual voids or cracks.
The height of the tool allowed me to sit comfortably in a chair as I worked, so there wasn’t a lot of stress on my back, which is a good thing since it took me about 2 days to complete the entire bond beam. It was a tedious job, but low impact and not nearly as bad as grinding out cracks. Overall, I’m pretty happy with how it turned out. Not bad for a $20 tool sold on Amazon!
The surface profile is a little more evident in the picture below. It looks like I achieved an average surface roughness of about 1/8” inch between the peaks and valleys, which I think is about a CSP of 8. You can also see a line of grey hydraulic cement on the top of the bond beam where I previously filled one of the structural cracks in the pool wall. I’m really happy with how tightly the hydraulic cement filled everything in, leaving no residual voids or cracks.
The height of the tool allowed me to sit comfortably in a chair as I worked, so there wasn’t a lot of stress on my back, which is a good thing since it took me about 2 days to complete the entire bond beam. It was a tedious job, but low impact and not nearly as bad as grinding out cracks. Overall, I’m pretty happy with how it turned out. Not bad for a $20 tool sold on Amazon!
That looks like a beast of equipment right there! Glad you found a way to make it work and REALLY glad I did not have to do it! LOL
5/5/2023 – Back to crack grinding today. I previously repaired the larger structural cracks in the pool shell, but there are a LOT of smaller non-structural cracks all the way around the pool, most of which originate from the areas in the top of the bond beam where the bluestone inlays were placed.
Although the bluestone inlays may have looked good, they also formed a lot of hard right angles in the concrete at the corners. I think that most of these small cracks are re-entrant cracks originating from these corner areas. They appear to run about as deep as the bluestone inlays and extend about 8 to 12 inches down the face of the bond beam. Since they run through where the new tile line will be, I decided to grind them all out and fill them with hydraulic cement.
It took me one long, dusty day to dig out all of the cracks. Fortunately, the temperature was in the low 60's, so it was still just a one shirt day. You can see a hole in the middle of the tile line in the photo below where I dug out one of the old rope anchors at the shallow end of the pool. These were made out of PVC so they were fairly easy to chisel into pieces and dig out with the small rotary hammer. I used the extra hydraulic cement left over completing a crack to gradually fill in the holes left by the rope anchors.
Below is a photo of the completed job, about a zillion batches of hydraulic cement later. In the end, it took me one day to grind out the cracks and 3 days to fill them all.
Although the bluestone inlays may have looked good, they also formed a lot of hard right angles in the concrete at the corners. I think that most of these small cracks are re-entrant cracks originating from these corner areas. They appear to run about as deep as the bluestone inlays and extend about 8 to 12 inches down the face of the bond beam. Since they run through where the new tile line will be, I decided to grind them all out and fill them with hydraulic cement.
It took me one long, dusty day to dig out all of the cracks. Fortunately, the temperature was in the low 60's, so it was still just a one shirt day. You can see a hole in the middle of the tile line in the photo below where I dug out one of the old rope anchors at the shallow end of the pool. These were made out of PVC so they were fairly easy to chisel into pieces and dig out with the small rotary hammer. I used the extra hydraulic cement left over completing a crack to gradually fill in the holes left by the rope anchors.
Below is a photo of the completed job, about a zillion batches of hydraulic cement later. In the end, it took me one day to grind out the cracks and 3 days to fill them all.
That is a shame something meant to be pretty did so much damage. Bet you can mix the fill stuff like a pro now!
ngsm13
Bronze Supporter
- May 17, 2021
- 109
- Pool Size
- 19500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
5/8/2023 – I saved the cracks in the steps for last. The one running through the bond beam and the one running down the center of the steps are probably the worst cracks in the pool. I bought the 30 pack of lock ties, so I had 10 left for the steps. I used 6 lock-ties for the longest crack running down the center of the steps. I didn’t want to put a lock-tie in the tile line, so for the crack running through the bond beam, I put one on the top of the bond beam and 2 more in the step below. I used the last lock-tie for a smaller crack running through right side of the top step.
I also dug out an old venturi return above the second step. The air line had been run through the bond beam about an inch below the top surface. The point where the air line comes out of the bond beam will be below the new water level once the bond beam is built up, so it would be of little use as a jet or aerator in the new pool. This thing very really worked very well anyway, and there were some large cracks running through this area, so I decided to just ditch the whole thing altogether.
All cracks chased and beveled, and lock-ties installed. There was also a crack running along the back of the top step which I chased out and bevel cut with the grinder. Again, I didn’t use right angle lock ties here since I don’t want to put them below the tile line. I’ll be raising the level of the top step by about 3" when the bond beam is built up, so I plan to put some additional rebar between the bond beam and top step to help stabilize this area.
All cracks filled with hydraulic cement. This should be the last of the major repairs to the pool shell before the bond beam is built up.
I also dug out an old venturi return above the second step. The air line had been run through the bond beam about an inch below the top surface. The point where the air line comes out of the bond beam will be below the new water level once the bond beam is built up, so it would be of little use as a jet or aerator in the new pool. This thing very really worked very well anyway, and there were some large cracks running through this area, so I decided to just ditch the whole thing altogether.
All cracks chased and beveled, and lock-ties installed. There was also a crack running along the back of the top step which I chased out and bevel cut with the grinder. Again, I didn’t use right angle lock ties here since I don’t want to put them below the tile line. I’ll be raising the level of the top step by about 3" when the bond beam is built up, so I plan to put some additional rebar between the bond beam and top step to help stabilize this area.
All cracks filled with hydraulic cement. This should be the last of the major repairs to the pool shell before the bond beam is built up.
After completing repairs to the pool shell, I started work on the plumbing. Unfortunately, most of the “plumbing” work actually involved digging out the trenches for the pipes. This all had to be dug out by hand since I have no access for a machine. Below are photos of the finished trench behind the rock wall. A machine wouldn’t have been much help here anyway since I had to be very careful not to collapse the entire rock pile next to the trench. Needless to say, this took a while.
The photos below show the finished trench next to the pool deck. Before installing the pipes, I put in the forms for the new pool deck (to be poured on top of the old deck) so that I won’t have to later pound stakes into the same area as the new plumbing. I used flexible PVC next to the curved section of the deck and behind the rock wall. I know a lot of people on this forum aren’t fans of flexible PVC, but I read all of the pros and cons and ultimately decided that the ease of installing flexible PVC in these areas outweighed the potential disadvantages.
Below is a photo of the completed plumbing for the skimmer in the shallow end. I used 1.5” hoses for the main drain and return connections and 2” hose for the (yet to be installed) new skimmer. I used a threaded plug to block off threaded opening on what’s left of the old skimmer.
I used an extra-long coupling to connect a new rigid PVC jumper to the old return line, which I cut off past the point where I punched a hole through it during the old skimmer demo. I also used a long coupling to connect a jumper to the old main drain line and to connect the flex PVC hoses to the rigid PVC jumpers. I used long couplings on all of the flex PVC connections in order to maximize the strength of those glue joints.
I used rigid PVC next to the straight sections of the deck and to turn the 90 degree corner. I connected the two main drain lines together at the second skimmer using a 1.5” x 1.5” x 2.0” rigid tee, which then connects to a single 2” flexible PVC hose going to the equipment pad.
The photos below show the finished trench next to the pool deck. Before installing the pipes, I put in the forms for the new pool deck (to be poured on top of the old deck) so that I won’t have to later pound stakes into the same area as the new plumbing. I used flexible PVC next to the curved section of the deck and behind the rock wall. I know a lot of people on this forum aren’t fans of flexible PVC, but I read all of the pros and cons and ultimately decided that the ease of installing flexible PVC in these areas outweighed the potential disadvantages.
Below is a photo of the completed plumbing for the skimmer in the shallow end. I used 1.5” hoses for the main drain and return connections and 2” hose for the (yet to be installed) new skimmer. I used a threaded plug to block off threaded opening on what’s left of the old skimmer.
I used an extra-long coupling to connect a new rigid PVC jumper to the old return line, which I cut off past the point where I punched a hole through it during the old skimmer demo. I also used a long coupling to connect a jumper to the old main drain line and to connect the flex PVC hoses to the rigid PVC jumpers. I used long couplings on all of the flex PVC connections in order to maximize the strength of those glue joints.
I used rigid PVC next to the straight sections of the deck and to turn the 90 degree corner. I connected the two main drain lines together at the second skimmer using a 1.5” x 1.5” x 2.0” rigid tee, which then connects to a single 2” flexible PVC hose going to the equipment pad.
Below left is a close-up photo of the plumbing at the second skimmer. I used a 45 degree street elbow on the output of the main drain tee in order to line up with the pipe on the 2” outlet side of the tee. I was able to run all of the plumbing lines with no crossovers. Below right shows the 5 flexible PVC hoses running behind the rock wall leading to the equipment pad. The two 1.5” returns and the common 2” main drain line are on the bottom and the 2” suction lines for the new skimmers are running on top. I used crushed stone under and around all of the plumbing lines. Overall, everything came out pretty much as I planned it, so I should be in pretty good shape as long as there aren’t any leaks…
Your poor body! I can feel the pain from here! PLEASE make sure to pressure test the new pipes before you cover it up!!!
sktn77a
Gold Supporter
Man, that's one heck of a project. It'll be a DYNO-MITE addition to the home when its finished!