Ozone with or without saltwater

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RTeen said:
The 70 CYA 5ppm FC (as per recommendation table) seems to be below the algae killing line. What am I missing here?
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5ppm FC at 70 CYA would be the absolute minimum, the target range would be 8-10.
 
RTeen said:
Is the entire industry messed up?
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Once you follow the TFP methodology you will begin to think so. It's the difference between a time proven, science based method, coupled with the goodwill of people willing helping others vs the marketing of potions and gadgets by people with a financial motive to do so. I grew up "knowing" your FC levels were to be between 1-4, you added algaecide every now and then, and you had to shock on a weekly basis. I also knew my Dad went completely insane when the pool got cloudy and he headed to the pool store for more testing and product. This cycle of madness has simply been passed on to another generation of unwitting pool owners. I went out for breakfast this AM where my server was telling me about her cloudy pool, yet her test strips are telling her the chlorine level is "ideal"(and yes, she uses trichlor pucks to chlorinate). The pool store sold her some clarifier and blah, blah , blah....... Everything about her "methodology" has been gleaned from the pool store and has led her to failure. This is summer #3 with TFP for me. I'm completely bored out of my mind with my pool care. My pool is crystal clear, my pH goes nowhere, and I just put a SWG in this year which I now realize I should have done in year #1. I test my water about every 3-5 days. Good news is I have all this time on my hands to help my friends with cloudy pools who learned everything they know from the pool store.
 
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RTeen said:
The 70 CYA 5ppm FC (as per recommendation table) seems to be below the algae killing line. What am I missing here?
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This may help.

FC/CYA for swg

So this information from the CYA sticky above explains why the FC recommendation is different between liquid and swg pools - “3Most saltwater chlorine generator (SWG) pools appear to prevent algae at a minimum FC level of 4.5% of the CYA level as compared with the roughly 7.5% of the CYA level...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
RTeen said:
Ok you are confusing me.

www.troublefreepool.com

The Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid Relationship

Managing your cyanuric acid and Free Chlorine levels is key to stabilizing your pool. Learn how these two items affect each other.
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

Minimum is 3 target is 5 in SWG option.
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He didn't realize that you had a SWCG, and gave you recommendations for Liquid Chlorine.

I too have SWCG. Minimum is 3, target of 5 for SWCG and 70 CYA. Minimum is also lava. I too have CYA 70, and I run mine a bit higher (8-9). Most people run their FC a bit higher than minimums to handle some variability in demand. I have variable demand from 1.5-5.5 FC/day, depending on weather, swimmers, cover etc. This gives me the cushion to pull the cover, swim etc, without ever going below 5 or minimums.
 
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PoolStored said:
He didn't realize that you had a SWCG, and gave you recommendations for Liquid Chlorine.

I too have SWCG. Minimum is 3, target of 5. Minimum is also lava. I run mine a bit higher (8-9). Most people run their FC a bit higher than minimums to handle some variability in demand. I have variable demand from 1.5-5.5 FC/day, depending on weather, swimmers, cover etc. This gives me the cushion to pull the cover, swim etc, without every hitting minimums.
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You mean 8-9ppm FC? That’s not a bit higher. That’s a lot higher.
 
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RTeen said:
You mean 8-9ppm FC? That’s not a bit higher. That’s a lot higher.
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7,8,9, somewhere in there. I learned not to try to run a hard edge and try to keep it at "5." There are pools/people/locations that have VERY stable FC demand. It is MUCH easier to maintain a target of 5 when your demand is consistent.

I have lots of organics, a pool cover that stays on most of the time and then days we use the pool hard. I, like others, choose to run the pool a bit higher to not have to worry about hitting targets/minimums. FC up to SLAM level is absolutely safe.

There are lots of different ways to manage your FC and have a clean, safe pool.
 
Sorry, yes, I listed the Liquid Chlorine number, not the SWCG number. My Bad. :(

My pool uses somewhere between 1 and 5ppm FC a day - full sun, no shade, dog, kids, leaves, rain, heck, there was frog in there living its best life the other day.
I typically test in the morning, and if it's below about 7ppm, I'll punch a hole in a gallon of 12.5% LC, and sit it on the step by the return jet. 30 minutes later, I'm back at 11-12, and I know I'm going to be above the minimum no matter how sunny it is that day. A gallon of 12.5 in my pool = 5ppm), so I could add half, maybe a cup at a time, bump it to 9, then add half again at the end of the day after testing again, but I haven't been able to see any difference in user-experience between 9 and 12ppm, so why make more work for myself ? Plus, if I happen to get busy and 'miss a day', I'm probably still above my minimum.

A SWCG would make life easier, and allow lower more consistent levels, but I'd still want to be a tick or two above bare minimum...things happen :)
 
RTeen said:
You mean 8-9ppm FC? That’s not a bit higher. That’s a lot higher.
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You seem concerned about having too much FC. It's safe to swim up to SLAM level FC for your CYA level (consult the FC/CYA chart).

I maintain my pool with a CYA of 80 and FC of ~8.

Once you make the switch to TFPC, you'll never look back.
 
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Ditto. After I opened this spring, we were swimming with FC of 32 ppm and CYA of 80. The water felt perfect - no indication at all that the FC was that high.

I've since allowed it to drop to 7 ppm and maintain it there with a SWG. I spend about $200/year on consumables for my 27k gallon pool using the TFP method.
 
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Jimrahbe said:
R,

Your problem is not too much chlorine but too little.

I have three saltwater pools and in "total" they have been TFP pool for over 25 years. In all that time I have not added a single bag of pool store shock.

If you have to routinely add "shock" to your saltwater pool, you are just not doing it right.

If you maintain the proper CYA to FC ratio, you will never smell the chlorine, you will never get algae, and you will never have to add shock again. See the saltwater section of this chart. FC/CYA Levels

You should read through our Pool School and see what we are all about. We are not about UV, Ozone or other magic.

Thanks,

Jim R.
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At the moment I cannot find standalone CYA in the local market. People are looking at me with suspicious eyes when I asked for it. They are only available as part of granular chlorine.

I have two follow up questions:
1) How much solid chlorine do I need to dump in my saltwater pool to achieve 30-40ppm CYA and what would that amount do to my FC?
2) I measured my FC several times during the day under sunlight and there seems to be 2ppm consistently with 0 CYA in my water. That’s actually a lot of HOCl, even more than available under TFP procedure, hence a higher disinfection power. I read the discussion of buffering the chlorine. Can you tell me a little bit more regarding why I really need it in my case?

Thanks
 
Hello rteen, I see you are in Turkey, are you able to get one of the test kits that TFP recommends? I know outside the U.S. the kits can be difficult if not impossible to find.

It will be very hard to manage your pool the TFP way without fas-dpd at least, to manage the higher chlorine levels.
 
Kellyp said:
Hello rteen, I see you are in Turkey, are you able to get one of the test kits that TFP recommends? I know outside the U.S. the kits can be difficult if not impossible to find.

It will be very hard to manage your pool the TFP way without fas-dpd at least, to manage the higher chlorine levels.
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Not really market provides very basic titration, granular chlorine, algae killers and other water shiners. I sent an email to the distributor in Spain that is mentioned on the site to acquire a relevant kit. So far no reply. I will get it one way or another I am determined to science the s**t out of this issue.
 
So also a quick question. During your weekly shocking what kind of powder have you been using? If it is Dichlor then you have been adding CYA to your water. Without a way to properly measure this we dont know how much. Test strips wont give you the answer.

Also if they only way for you to find CYA is through granular chlorine, thats fine. CYA is CYA.

Just for reference, I keep my CYA at around 80 (my pool gets full Florida sunshine) and FC around 10. My pool is as clear as it gets, and never smells of chlorine. As someone mentioned earlier, unless you tested it you would never know there was chlorine in the water.
 
Kuddos to you for taking control of your pool! Do you have, or can you download the poolmath app?

It can help you determine how much solid chlorine, with cya, to add to your pool to increase your CYA enough to protect your chlorine.

When adding the solid chlorine, you would need to adjust or possibly turn off your SWG until you reach the 30-40 CYA you want.

Do your basic titrating kits include a CYA test? It doesn't leave the water quickly, but it will degrade over time and with splash out, so you really need to be able to monitor it.
 
Katodude said:
So also a quick question. During your weekly shocking what kind of powder have you been using? If it is Dichlor then you have been adding CYA to your water. Without a way to properly measure this we dont know how much. Test strips wont give you the answer.

Also if they only way for you to find CYA is through granular chlorine, thats fine. CYA is CYA.

Just for reference, I keep my CYA at around 80 (my pool gets full Florida sunshine) and FC around 10. My pool is as clear as it gets, and never smells of chlorine. As someone mentioned earlier, unless you tested it you would never know there was chlorine in the water.
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I have done shocking only once out of panic after my daughter got sick from amoeba. However she used a crowded hotel pool during the same time so I cannot know the source for sure. So I nuked my pool just in case. The provider gave me some granular chlorine. I need to ask the kind as I am clueless to what I used. They call it 65 chlorine. I will investigate further.
 
Kellyp said:
Kuddos to you for taking control of your pool! Do you have, or can you download the poolmath app?

It can help you determine how much solid chlorine, with cya, to add to your pool to increase your CYA enough to protect your chlorine.

When adding the solid chlorine, you would need to adjust or possibly turn off your SWG until you reach the 30-40 CYA you want.

Do your basic titrating kits include a CYA test? It doesn't leave the water quickly, but it will degrade over time and with splash out, so you really need to be able to monitor it.
Click to expand...
I tried the poolmath but it doesn’t really work if your regional settings are not fully US. The app displays comma as a decimal point under my settings but then doesn’t like it because it is not a dot. And I don’t want to mess with my regional settings just to make it work. I have Orenda app which is more stable but just tells me directly how much CYA I need to put it in terms of kg, not chlorine containing CYA.

And no there is no titration test for CYA in the market. I found just a test strip which is very crude. According to that I have close to 0 CYA.
 

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