Smart Wifi Pool Timer with Fireman's Switch?

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JaySee

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2021
61
Toronto
Pool Size
70000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Happy summer pool season, everyone! Just opened my pool with a quick SLAM and was looking to upgrade my setup.

Does a 220V "Smart" Wifi pool timer with a Fireman's switch for the heater exist? One that can be synced/programmed via Google Home, for example.

Thanks for any leads!
 
JaySee said:
Does a 220V "Smart" Wifi pool timer with a Fireman's switch for the heater exist? One that can be synced/programmed via Google Home, for example.
Click to expand...
I haven't seen one. You've probably searched and found stand-alone Wi-Fi smart boxes like the Dewenwils Pool Pump Timer. I used one of these for a waterfall pump and now use it for my spa blower. The app is a bit clunky, but it hasn't failed me in 4 years. If you're scheduling with Google Home, the app won't matter much. The Suraielec Timer is another option that appears to use a better app. I haven't used this box.

Since I have a VS pump, I use a series of WiFi relays to control pump speeds, valve actuators, and the SWG. More details are linked in my signature.

I control my heater operation with a Sonoff TH-16 with DS18B20 probe connected to 120 volts. The switch is connected to a dry contact relay, which connects to the heater's fireman's switch through low voltage wire. I used a thermowell threaded into a tee-fitting for the probe. The switch works with the eWelink app, Alexa, Google Home/HA, Smart Things and others. . I use Alexa Routines to control most daily actions. The heater is programmed to shut off 15 minutes before the pump.

I purchased the TH-16 in March and it has since become unavailable on Amazon.

Let me know if you any questions.
 
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Rancho Cost-a-Lotta said:
I control my heater operation with a Sonoff TH-16 with DS18B20 probe connected to 120 volts. The switch is connected to a dry contact relay, which connects to the heater's fireman's switch through low voltage wire. I used a thermowell threaded into a tee-fitting for the probe. The switch works with the eWelink app, Alexa, Google Home/HA, Smart Things and others. . I use Alexa Routines to control most daily actions. The heater is programmed to shut off 15 minutes before the pump.

I purchased the TH-16 in March and it has since become unavailable on Amazon.

Let me know if you any questions.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that wealth of information. I read your "Low Budget DIY Automation" post, and understood some of it (hardware is not my strongest point, I'm more software-oriented). How does your Sonoff TH16 communicate/coordinate with your pump controller? Is it a "IFTT"-type command via Alexa to create a 'virtual' firemans switch? (ie "If pump is set to shut off at X, then shut off heater at X -15 minutes")

I'm in the Google Home ecoystem which sadly does not support IFTT commands very well, hence my search for an all in one box solution. Surprised that Intermatic hasn't jumped on this since they could just get white labelled software from Tuya like a large number of other smart device manufacturers do.
 
I don't use IFTTT for anything. For daily scheduling, I use Alexa Routines. I believe Google Home has a this capability, but I haven't used it. Routines use trigger events such as daily schedules or voice commands to run a series of events you select from a list of your smart devices. You can switch devices on/off and set wait times between the sequential list of actions. Here's an example of my "Daily Shutdown" routine. I have a separate schedule for "Daily Run w/ Spa Circulation" that starts in the morning. My shutdown mode is programmed to bring all devices back to my pool's default settings.

It's really a basic system that works well for me. I have a few other safety features set up as "Scenes" in the eWelink app. One example: if all pump relays are off, SWG and heater switch off.
1654016884966.png

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Got it, that totally makes sense. There's no virtual fireman's switch because your routine has the sequence of events and wait times built into it. So in theory, I could use two separate Surailec wifi timers hooked up to the heater and pump respectively, and create a routine to trigger them in sequence w/ a wait time in between. The use of the Sonoff has the added benefit of temperature feedback and can be programmed that if the temperature = X, do or don't do Y, is that right?
 
JaySee said:
The use of the Sonoff has the added benefit of temperature feedback and can be programmed that if the temperature = X, do or don't do Y, is that right?
Click to expand...
It's not that simple. Alexa and GH integration with the Sonoff TH16 only provides temps and switches the Sonoff on/off. You can't control temps.
JaySee said:
So in theory, I could use two separate Surailec wifi timers hooked up to the heater and pump respectively, and create a routine to trigger them in sequence w/ a wait time in between
Click to expand...
The timer box can't provide direct control of the fireman's switch. Take a look at this wiki page.

Heater Control with Automation - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
Rancho Cost-a-Lotta said:
It's not that simple. Alexa and GH integration with the Sonoff TH16 only provides temps and switches the Sonoff on/off. You can't control temps.

The timer box can't provide direct control of the fireman's switch. Take a look at this wiki page.

Heater Control with Automation - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
Click to expand...

Yes, I was thinking about using a separate Surailec wifi timer could control the on/off of the heater, but the routine was set to act like a fireman's switch: "Controller A: Turn off heater. Wait 20 minutes. Controller B: Turn off pump." Any adjustments to temperature etc would still need to be done manually. But there's always the added risk that one controller doesn't respond while the other does, which occasionally happens in my lighting automation where one light for whatever reason doesn't feel like doing what it's supposed to while the others continue along as per the routine.
 
JaySee said:
Surailec wifi timer could control the on/off of the heater
Click to expand...
The box would work, but you can't just cut power to the heater to turn it on/off. The connection is made to the fireman's switch within the heater, which is charged with 24v. Opening the switch disrupts the call for heat (as if the heater reached it's set temp), but allows all other heater functions (like the blower) to operate. The relay that connects to the fireman's switch is a dry (unpowered) that just opens and closes the heater's 24v circuit.

You could use the Surailec, but you would need to wire the load side to a relay that accepts the voltage on the input side and converts it to a dry contact on the output side. I used this one between the Sonoff TH-16 and the fireman's switch:

 
Rancho Cost-a-Lotta said:
Opening the switch disrupts the call for heat (as if the heater reached it's set temp), but allows all other heater functions (like the blower) to operate. The relay that connects to the fireman's switch is a dry (unpowered) that just opens and closes the heater's 24v circuit.
Click to expand...

Ah, I never thought of that-- I was always thinking in terms of a hard off/on function. Definitely more complicated than I had imagined.
 

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Rancho Cost-a-Lotta said:
The box would work, but you can't just cut power to the heater to turn it on/off. The connection is made to the fireman's switch within the heater, which is charged with 24v. Opening the switch disrupts the call for heat (as if the heater reached it's set temp), but allows all other heater functions (like the blower) to operate. The relay that connects to the fireman's switch is a dry (unpowered) that just opens and closes the heater's 24v circuit.

You could use the Surailec, but you would need to wire the load side to a relay that accepts the voltage on the input side and converts it to a dry contact on the output side. I used this one between the Sonoff TH-16 and the fireman's switch:

Click to expand...
Any chance you have a quick and dirty diagram of how you connected the TH-16 and Heater to that Oono dry contact?

I connected my TH-16 directly to my heater’s remote wires not realizing that the TH-16 was going to supply power and I fried my controller. It sounds like this Oono is the missing link!
 
I'm not comfortable drawing up diagram, so maybe photos will help. My TH16 is wired for 120 volts.

From the TH16, L output (blue) and N neutral connect to the input side of the ONNO relay (GRN and BLU). This provides power to the relay.

NOTE: The TH16 has two N neutral terminals. One comes from the power source, the second goes to input side (GRN/BLU) of the OONO relay. ​

The two connections on the right side of the relay (SW1 and SW2) are dry (unpowered) and only open/close. Use the top SW1 terminals (NO normally open) to connect to the heater's fireman's switch.

The photo below (from this Wiki page) shows the Pentair MasterTemp fireman's switch.

In this photo, the BLU/WTE terminated wires go the input side of the OONO relay:
1657378436322.png

This phots shows ORG/BLK off the OONO SW1 terminals to RED/WTE going to the fireman's switch via thermostat wire.
1657378496981.png1657377983408.png



1657378140102.png

Heater Control with Automation - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 

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Rancho Cost-a-Lotta said:
I'm not comfortable drawing up diagram, so maybe photos will help. My TH16 is wired for 120 volts.

From the TH16, L output (blue) and N neutral connect to the input side of the ONNO relay (GRN and BLU). This provides power to the relay.

NOTE: The TH16 has two N neutral terminals. One comes from the power source, the second goes to input side (GRN/BLU) of the OONO relay. ​

The two connections on the right side of the relay (SW1 and SW2) are dry (unpowered) and only open/close. Use the top SW1 terminals (NO normally open) to connect to the heater's fireman's switch.

The photo below (from this Wiki page) shows the Pentair MasterTemp fireman's switch.

In this photo, the BLU/WTE terminated wires go the input side of the OONO relay:
View attachment 433662

This phots shows ORG/BLK off the OONO SW1 terminals to RED/WTE going to the fireman's switch via thermostat wire.
View attachment 433666View attachment 433656



View attachment 433657

Heater Control with Automation - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
Click to expand...
Thanks for taking the time to explain and post pictures Rancho, I appreciate it! That will definitely help me figure how to get this connected.
 
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