Metal Magic in Canada

Patti · Jul 9, 2021

Hi folks! I would like to try Metal Magic in my pool but I can’t find it anywhere in Canada. (ProTeam Metal Magic by Haviland) . Amazon says ‘out of stock- not sure if/when it will be back in stock’.
I contacted dealers in the U.S and they say they don’t ship to Canada.
I (finally) found contact info online & got a hold of the manufacturer directly.
I was told he was passing my inquiry on to another department and they would get in touch with me. (I ‘think’ he was V.P.)
After a week of hearing nothing (abd the stains getting worse), I called back.
The original person I had spoken to is on holidays. This person I spoke to said she didn’t know where I could get it- and that she’d have to contact the original person I’d spoken to and ask him, and that she’d get him to contact me (??? If he didn’t know then, why would he know now???)

Not sure why their company wouldn’t be able to find the names of their Distributors and/or Retailers???
They also said I couldn’t order from them directly.

???
Anyways, it’s been almost another week (with the stains getting even worse) and still haven’t heard a word. ????
Their Customer Service sure isn’t very good… I guess maybe they don’t need the business????
Anyways….if anyone knows where I can get this product in Canada (preferably Ontario), or any company in the U.S. that ships here (and won’t kill me with shipping charges!) I’d appreciate if you could pass along the info to me!
Short of that, are there any other products people have used that have the SAME success rate and/or formulation as Metal Magic? I’ve tried a couple stain removers and they didn’t make a dent so I’m not going to waste any more money!
I read another extensive thread about this (Carlos) and it seems Metal Magic was one of the few products out there that actually works.
Had anyone ever tried METASOL?
One more question: I have a gadget that looks like a floating chlorinator, solar-charged, that is supposed to eliminate algae & reduce the need for chlorine. It somehow works with ions - and I believe there is a copper (anode?) bar in it that has to be brushed off every so often -(becomes black and there’s blue crystals around the top of the net cage surrounding it.) Is it possible THAT could be the source of the metal causing the staining? Just curious. Thanks for any input you can offer. Patti

YippeeSkippy · Jul 9, 2021

Uhhh? Which metal do you have in the water that you're dealing with??

Maddie :flower:

Pv2 · Jul 9, 2021

Patti said:
One more question: I have a gadget that looks like a floating chlorinator, solar-charged, that is supposed to eliminate algae & reduce the need for chlorine. It somehow works with ions - and I believe there is a copper (anode?) bar in it that has to be brushed off every so often -(becomes black and there’s blue crystals around the top of the net cage surrounding it.) Is it possible THAT could be the source of the metal causing the staining? Just curious. Thanks for any input you can offer. Patti

that would be my guess. copper is not very well liked around here. it doesn't do what is usually claimed and it stains pool, swim wear, hair and is hard to get rid of.

YippeeSkippy · Jul 9, 2021

If its copper, the only way to rid that is a drain and refill. ANd stop adding that to the water!

If its iron, one can capture that in polyfil after they let it come out of solution (adding chlorine can do that if high enough).

Maddie :flower:

Patti · Jul 9, 2021

Ohhh boyyy

I am feeling just a ‘tad’ overwhelmed at the moment…I have so many questions… my head is swimming !

lol
I’ve only had my pool a couple of years, and now have staining for the first time. I read all of Carlos’ thread from years ago, and now this one.
And…my head is hurting.

I posted earlier asking if anyone knew where I could find Metal Magic in Canada (Amazon is out, retailers in the U.S don’t ship here, manufacturer won’t ship direct, can’t find any distributors or retailers in Canada, and getting information from the company has thus far proven fruitless!

)

Some more questions I hope you guys can help me with:
Does anyone know anything about a product called METASOL?? If I understand correctly it is both a sequestering and chelating agent (which I take to mean it ‘absorbs’ the metal/suspends it in solution, and then breaks it down/dissolves it). Is that correct?

With polyfill, do I fill the entire skimmer basket with it? loosely or pressed down?

About AA: where is the best/cheapest place to buy it? what kind of price am I looking at (ie for 5 lbs? Is that a common amount people buy?)
How much is required per 10,000 LITERS OR GALLONS?
Can you buy it at pharmacies or hardware stores?
Do you just pour it on top of the stains & let it sit?
If so, do I have to wipe it off after a given period of time?
Or do I broadcast it?
Pump on or off?
Should the polyfill be in the skimmer during that time?
I have a skimmer sock- should I leave that on in addition to the polyfill?
If I want to run the vacuum, is there any way of filtering that water using polyfill or anything else?
What should I use to sequester if I can’t get Metal Magic?
I’ve been looking for products and trying to figure this out for over three weeks now…Hopefully I can get some AA close to me ASAP and at least get rid of the stains before company comes next weekend. I can work in the sequestering/filtering after that if need be. If I’m REALLY stuck, Fruit Fresh is AA correct?
THANKS for any help offered! This site is amazing- I’ve been following it for a few years now and I’m always learning new things!!

Patti

markayash · Jul 9, 2021

Asorbic acid prices seem to be up or Dow so shop around. I didn’t have luck with citric acid, used more but didn’t seem to help.
Also instead of metal
Magic have you looked for jacks magic? They have several “ formulas

Patti · Jul 12, 2021

Thanks for your input! I’ve seen Jack’s but have heard mixed reviews about it whereas MM seemed to have mostly positive reviews so that why I was looking for that. I might have to go with jacks though if I can’t get MM here. Thanks!

Patti · Jul 12, 2021

YippeeSkippy said:
Uhhh? Which metal do you have in the water that you're dealing with??

Maddie

Not sure….thought it was iron…but just got thinking about the fact that I have put that gadget in (I mentioned it in the post) so it might be copper that is causing the problem.

Patti · Jul 12, 2021

YippeeSkippy said:
Uhhh? Which metal do you have in the water that you're dealing with??

Maddie

I’ll get some pics today!

mguzzy · Jul 12, 2021

Patti said:
Ohhh boyyyI am feeling just a ‘tad’ overwhelmed at the moment…I have so many questions… my head is swimming !lol
I’ve only had my pool a couple of years, and now have staining for the first time. I read all of Carlos’ thread from years ago, and now this one.
And…my head is hurting.
I posted earlier asking if anyone knew where I could find Metal Magic in Canada (Amazon is out, retailers in the U.S don’t ship here, manufacturer won’t ship direct, can’t find any distributors or retailers in Canada, and getting information from the company has thus far proven fruitless!)

Some more questions I hope you guys can help me with:
Does anyone know anything about a product called METASOL?? If I understand correctly it is both a sequestering and chelating agent (which I take to mean it ‘absorbs’ the metal/suspends it in solution, and then breaks it down/dissolves it). Is that correct?

With polyfill, do I fill the entire skimmer basket with it? loosely or pressed down?

About AA: where is the best/cheapest place to buy it? what kind of price am I looking at (ie for 5 lbs? Is that a common amount people buy?)
How much is required per 10,000 LITERS OR GALLONS?
Can you buy it at pharmacies or hardware stores?
Do you just pour it on top of the stains & let it sit?
If so, do I have to wipe it off after a given period of time?
Or do I broadcast it?
Pump on or off?
Should the polyfill be in the skimmer during that time?
I have a skimmer sock- should I leave that on in addition to the polyfill?
If I want to run the vacuum, is there any way of filtering that water using polyfill or anything else?
What should I use to sequester if I can’t get Metal Magic?
I’ve been looking for products and trying to figure this out for over three weeks now…Hopefully I can get some AA close to me ASAP and at least get rid of the stains before company comes next weekend. I can work in the sequestering/filtering after that if need be. If I’m REALLY stuck, Fruit Fresh is AA correct?
THANKS for any help offered! This site is amazing- I’ve been following it for a few years now and I’m always learning new things!!
Patti

Hi Patti yup these things are overwhelming. You should prolly start your own thread on this adventure.. its makes it easier for us to help you... I'll alert the mods.

I recently did a iron treatment with AA and MM. Here's my thread. Lets see to answer your questions:
-Never used MetaSol.. so I don't know anything about it. If it does change it to a form that can be removed from the ware (filterable or rinsing the PolyFil) it will stay in the water and come back when it breaks down.
-Read the wiki article.. it gives the basic rate for AA.. but you can always add more. AA Wiki Article
-I got the AA from Amazon, it was an 8 pound bucket it was the cheapest I found. Read through the
-AA will reduce the iron and put it in soln. until you use a sequestering agent to bind to it. If you only do the AA it will go back into solution when the AA breaks down as you raise the pH back up.
-Just dump it in the pool.. it dissolves really fast.
-Yes run your pump. you probably have iron stains in your pipes too.
-yes, poly fill in the basket. as it turns brown, rinse it off and put it back in. you are removing iron
-you can make a poly fil filter. so all the water gets dumped back into the pool through the filter see here: PolyFill Filter
-Jacks products are good as well and many here have used it.
-Yes AA, is also called Vitamin C and is sold as Fruit Fresh. But buying a case of FF sounds like a reaaallly expensive way to go.

In all honesty the best way to get Iron our to your water is to replace it from a non Iron source. The chemical means seem to be temporary at best. so consider this:
-Use AA remove the stains, it puts the iron in the water
-Use a Sequestering again to bind the iron in your water
-Drain and refill to remove the sequestered iron.

You have an ABG pool so it should be an easy task to do.

sktn77a · Jul 12, 2021

Metal magic is 1-Hydroxyethane-1,1- diphosphonic acid 30 to 40%. ie it's a phosphonic acid derivative. Many other sequestrants contain the same active ingredient - just use one of those.

Patti · Jul 20, 2021

mguzzy said:
Hi Patti yup these things are overwhelming. You should prolly start your own thread on this adventure.. its makes it easier for us to help you... I'll alert the mods.

I recently did a iron treatment with AA and MM. Here's my thread. Lets see to answer your questions:
-Never used MetaSol.. so I don't know anything about it. If it does change it to a form that can be removed from the ware (filterable or rinsing the PolyFil) it will stay in the water and come back when it breaks down.
-Read the wiki article.. it gives the basic rate for AA.. but you can always add more. AA Wiki Article
-I got the AA from Amazon, it was an 8 pound bucket it was the cheapest I found. Read through the
-AA will reduce the iron and put it in soln. until you use a sequestering agent to bind to it. If you only do the AA it will go back into solution when the AA breaks down as you raise the pH back up.
-Just dump it in the pool.. it dissolves really fast.
-Yes run your pump. you probably have iron stains in your pipes too.
-yes, poly fill in the basket. as it turns brown, rinse it off and put it back in. you are removing iron
-you can make a poly fil filter. so all the water gets dumped back into the pool through the filter see here: PolyFill Filter
-Jacks products are good as well and many here have used it.
-Yes AA, is also called Vitamin C and is sold as Fruit Fresh. But buying a case of FF sounds like a reaaallly expensive way to go.

In all honesty the best way to get Iron our to your water is to replace it from a non Iron source. The chemical means seem to be temporary at best. so consider this:
-Use AA remove the stains, it puts the iron in the water
-Use a Sequestering again to bind the iron in your water
-Drain and refill to remove the sequestered iron.

You have an ABG pool so it should be an easy task to do.

That is great! Thanks so much for your help! Sorry I’m just responding now- I wasn’t getting any email notifications. I thought I had it set correctly (I’ve never changed it since 2012) but it was off!

i JUST (like 2 minutes ago) found an AWESOME deal on AA! And best of all- it’s 10 minutes from where I live. I paid…..(drumroll please…..) $5.90 CAN /lb!!! The Health food store in my town wanted $43.86 CAN for 500g- 1.1 lbs!!! So I was pretty darn happy about that!

I wasted hours searching online, so lesson learned- shop local FIRST!! I just posted some other questions before I saw this, so I’ll do the reading you suggested and go from there! Thanks again for your help!

Patti · Jul 20, 2021

sktn77a said:
Metal magic is 1-Hydroxyethane-1,1- diphosphonic acid 30 to 40%. ie it's a phosphonic acid derivative. Many other sequestrants contain the same active ingredient - just use one of those.

OH!! You are awesome!!! Thank you so much for sharing that info! You just made my life a whole lot easier & a lot less stressful!

Cheers!

Patti · Jul 20, 2021

I meant to send pictures before- here’s a couple shots. The staining is pretty much in the ‘dead’ areas of the pool where there isn’t as much movement of the water.

mguzzy said:
Hi Patti yup these things are overwhelming. You should prolly start your own thread on this adventure.. its makes it easier for us to help you... I'll alert the mods.

I recently did a iron treatment with AA and MM. Here's my thread. Lets see to answer your questions:
-Never used MetaSol.. so I don't know anything about it. If it does change it to a form that can be removed from the ware (filterable or rinsing the PolyFil) it will stay in the water and come back when it breaks down.
-Read the wiki article.. it gives the basic rate for AA.. but you can always add more. AA Wiki Article
-I got the AA from Amazon, it was an 8 pound bucket it was the cheapest I found. Read through the
-AA will reduce the iron and put it in soln. until you use a sequestering agent to bind to it. If you only do the AA it will go back into solution when the AA breaks down as you raise the pH back up.
-Just dump it in the pool.. it dissolves really fast.
-Yes run your pump. you probably have iron stains in your pipes too.
-yes, poly fill in the basket. as it turns brown, rinse it off and put it back in. you are removing iron
-you can make a poly fil filter. so all the water gets dumped back into the pool through the filter see here: PolyFill Filter
-Jacks products are good as well and many here have used it.
-Yes AA, is also called Vitamin C and is sold as Fruit Fresh. But buying a case of FF sounds like a reaaallly expensive way to go.

In all honesty the best way to get Iron our to your water is to replace it from a non Iron source. The chemical means seem to be temporary at best. so consider this:
-Use AA remove the stains, it puts the iron in the water
-Use a Sequestering again to bind the iron in your water
-Drain and refill to remove the sequestered iron.

You have an ABG pool so it should be an easy task to do.

Patti · Jul 23, 2021

sktn77a said:
Metal magic is 1-Hydroxyethane-1,1- diphosphonic acid 30 to 40%. ie it's a phosphonic acid derivative. Many other sequestrants contain the same active ingredient - just use one of those.

Hey! So I was trying to find an alternative to Metal Magic, and I know we have something called Meta Sol. So I checked out the MSDS page and I found the information I’m attaching in the pic. There seems to be one slight difference- the Meta Sol says “sodium salt of 1 hydroex….”
Do you know if that makes a difference or changes the formulation?
Also - under the % of Concentration column it says: 3-7… (and Metal Magic is 30-40%). That might be the reason why we can’t find it in Canada…too high a percentage of one ingredient or another. I only know this because of the chemicals in my horse sprays. (And SO ridiculous!)

So I just wanted you to take a look at this screenshot and see what you think. Is it basically a weaker version of Metal Magic? Or am I comparing apples to oranges??? Or maybe having a salt version allows it to be a higher concentration? No idea..just guessing. What do you think? Thanks! Patti

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