VS Pump speed

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needsajet said:
How bout doing that same test with all the valves wide open so we know there are no restrictions? Perhaps also backwash the filter if that hasn't been done recently.
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Ok, I backwashed the filter, here are some updated numbers (all the valves were wide open in the previous test and are still for this):
  • 40 GPM - 2600 RPM - 924 W
  • 35 GPM - 2380 RPM - 705 W
  • 30 GPM - 2165 RPM - 525 W - 10 PSI on filter guage (this has been my normal operating speed)
  • 25 GPM - 1972 RPM - 400 W
  • 20 GPM - 1800 RPM - 290 W
I temporarily switched the filter to recirculate to remove it from the equation and jotted down these numbers (not sure if this would be helpful):
  • 40 GPM - 2124 RPM - 561 W
  • 20 GPM - 1582 RPM - 216 W
We have noticed once and a while, air bubbles spurting from the returns. Not consistent but usually on the ones in the stairs closest to the equipment. When all the return valves are open, I can feel the jets in the stairs closest to the equipement but on the ones furthest away, I feel basically nothing. Not sure if that's noteworthy.

I should also note that we have not been able to clear our pool of algae since opening on May 4. It was very green, now teal and opaque (cannot see bottom of deep end). I have not been able to retain chlorine (I've been pouring in liquid chlorine). Unfortunately, being in Canada, I'm having a hard time tracking down one of the TFP recommended test kits but I'm working on it.

wireform said:
A couple of pictures from the equipment pad can help us help you.
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Attached are some pictures. I've also updated my signature with more details on my equipment (let me know if I need more).
 

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Very, very puzzling. It doesn't appear that any valves are closed, and with your filter in recirculate, that takes it out of the equation. Is your equipment pad far from your pool? Mine is about 10 to 15 feet from my pool and by comparison, I'm getting:

@1000 rpm - 20 GPM
@1500 rpm - 30 GPM
@1750 rpm - 38 GPM
@2000 rpm - 42 GPM
@2500 rpm - 52 GPM
@3250 rpm - 60 GPM
@3450 rpm - 62 GPM

Now, my equipment pad is plumbed in 2" PVC, but underground, it is mostly copper pipes. Pool is from the early 70's. I can't quite tell from your pics if you have 1.5 or 2" but it appears that it's 2".
 
DeanP66 said:
Is your equipment pad far from your pool?
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Same as you, about 10-15 feet from the pool. It is about 6 feet higher but from what @needsajet said above, that shouldn't matter?
DeanP66 said:
I can't quite tell from your pics if you have 1.5 or 2" but it appears that it's 2".
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2" - at the equipment and I'm almost positive, underground as well.
 
Have you physically tested those ball valves by turning them shut and reopening them? Those tend to stick over time and maybe they aren't all the way open?? I'm kind of grasping at straws. How about your pump? Do you have a full prime with no air bubbles inside the pump basket? That would indicate some type of suction leak.

One other thing you could try is to close 2 of the 3 suction side ball valves and only have one drawing water at a time. Try them in all combinations, maybe something is clogging up one of the lines? Isolating them might tell you something.
 
Kevin,
Does your pump basket fill up completely with water and is water clear or lots of bubbles. You may need to check both skimmers if the weir door is stuck and not moving. Move them by hand to see if it moves freely. They need to be completely open sort of flat when the pump is running. If they move freely but when the pump runs they're not completely open that would point to a restriction of sorts. Possibly one of the valves on the suction side not really open eventhough the handle is turned. Move each valve while the pump is on to see if you can hear the water rushing and then stop as you turn.
 
DeanP66 said:
Have you physically tested those ball valves by turning them shut and reopening them?
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These are the blue handles (3 for suction/3 for returns) in my pictures above? Then yes.
DeanP66 said:
One other thing you could try is to close 2 of the 3 suction side ball valves and only have one drawing water at a time. Try them in all combinations, maybe something is clogging up one of the lines? Isolating them might tell you something.
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I tried this (both suction side and return side - couldn't really see/hear a difference.
wireform said:
Does your pump basket fill up completely with water and is water clear or lots of bubbles.
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I think so - there are a bit of bubbles at the very top. I'm not sure how much is too much. The attached picture shows this but it may be hard to see. But other than the larger bubble at the very top there are no other bubbles.
wireform said:
You may need to check both skimmers if the weir door is stuck and not moving. Move them by hand to see if it moves freely.
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This is the door in the skimmer's that opens to the pool? When the pump is running, they are open enough to let just the top ~1/2" of water in. They do move freely. Maybe you mean something else though?
wireform said:
Possibly one of the valves on the suction side not really open eventhough the handle is turned. Move each valve while the pump is on to see if you can hear the water rushing and then stop as you turn.
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I did this for the return valves and I definitely hear water flowing in them after I reopen but I couldn't really tell on the suction valves.
 

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Did you fully submerge the vacuum hose with water before connecting it to the skimmer pipe? Air in the line can cause a loss of prime. I usually take my vacuum with hose attached to it and put it all the way down in the deep end and then I sit at the edge of the pool and force the remaining hose straight down into the water until it's all submerged. I hold the end down until it completely fills with water and pushes out any remaining air bubbles and then feed it through my skimmer opening to attach it to the skimmer pipe. I also usually look at the filter pressure to make sure that it doesn't go down when I do this because that means I've introduced air into the system.

Try the same thing with your other skimmer and shut this one down to see if you get similar results. Maybe you have some kind of blockage in the first skimmer pipe?
 
DeanP66 said:
Did you fully submerge the vacuum hose with water before connecting it to the skimmer pipe?
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Yes, I filled the vacuum hose with water from the return before connecting. I vacuumed about 1/2 of the pool no problem before it popped off due to lack of suction. The skimmer basket was somewhat full but not extremely full.
DeanP66 said:
Try the same thing with your other skimmer and shut this one down to see if you get similar results.
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I'll try this.
 
KevinBond said:
I vacuumed about 1/2 of the pool no problem before it popped off due to lack of suction. The skimmer basket was somewhat full but not extremely full.
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No 2 piles of vacuum crud react the same in the skimmer basket. But as it fills it gets easier and easier to break the suction, eventually just by gently pulling the hose to a new area.

What happened here is probably just a normal thing.
 
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Guys ,here's a trick for priming the the vac hose. Connect the hose to the vac head and drop it in the pool. Grab the other end and hold it against the return port while pump is running forcing the water and air out through the vac head. When no mo bubbles coming up your done. Take the end and plug it where you would to vacuum.
 
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I moved and lost my pool temporarily. My next order of business was to find the elbow plate that fit my skimmer. They go through the skimmer and not up and over the patio. It seems like it would be much easier to get sucked on and a better design to keep the stress off the hose collar at the skimmer. Thats the part that fails and sucks in air first for everyone. I'm not sure which one you need but here is the general idea https://www.amazon.com/Hayward-SP11...ords=Hayward+vac+plate&qid=1620685542&sr=8-10
 
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I use a canister to catch the big stuff so the basket isn't needed at that point and go over the top the into the skimmer port for best suction. Don't like going through the skimmer as the hose puts pressure on the weir door.
 
Without the vacuum in use, i.e. just skimmers and main drain as sources for water, do you get any new air in the pump basket, or does it eventually clear out?

Getting a test kit at reasonable price is painful for Canucks. We could try a "flying mostly blind" SLAM to at least get your algae under control, if you like, or you can order the K-2006 Taylor kit. There's a supplier in Canada that uses their exclusive rights to charge the earth for it, I think around $300+. Some people have squeaked one through via Amazon, or Arizona Pool Parts, but I think the local monopoly fights hard for their high prices.
 
needsajet said:
Without the vacuum in use, i.e. just skimmers and main drain as sources for water, do you get any new air in the pump basket, or does it eventually clear out?
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Don't know if you can see in the picture above but there is a bit of an air bubble at the top of the pump basket (window) that never goes away.
needsajet said:
Some people have squeaked one through via Amazon, or Arizona Pool Parts, but I think the local monopoly fights hard for their high prices.
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I found a place 20 minutes away from me that sells Taylor test kits. Here is their offering. From what I understand, if I get the K-2005, I'll also need the FAS-DPD K-1515, is that correct? I can get the 22mL versions for under $200 CAD (for both). What do you think?
 
@MostlyCanuck found this way to get the kits shipped for a reasonable amount. Check this out too.

Help with Tf-100 / tftestkits.net for Canadians

Hi all Just joined this forum - blown away by the quality of content. In the process of building my first pool and went on tftestkits.net to get a TF-100. I am in Canada and since tftestkits.net do not ship over the border, I purchased a mailbox redirection service at the border to import the...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
My guess is you're getting normal flows and there's a setting in the intellicenter set incorrectly.
KevinBond said:
Don't know if you can see in the picture above but there is a bit of an air bubble at the top of the pump basket (window) that never goes away.

I found a place 20 minutes away from me that sells Taylor test kits. Here is their offering. From what I understand, if I get the K-2005, I'll also need the FAS-DPD K-1515, is that correct? I can get the 22mL versions for under $200 CAD (for both). What do you think?
Click to expand...
The 22 ml version is a bit restrictive, but used carefully, you'll be able to get a lot done. If you can get the 60ml version of the K-1515, I'd recommend that. Doing a SLAM can use a fair bit of reagent, but there's a trick to reduce consumption there as well (5 ml sample size except for final OCLT)

I can't tell from anywhere how much CYA testing reagent there is, but is that's also 22 ml, it's only three tests, so we'll have to be really careful to get the most from it. Most Taylor kits have more CYA reagent (maybe 2 bottles? Hopefully)

The tiny air bubble left when just using skimmers and drain is not a problem. That's good news and suggests your only problem is leakage when using your vacuum, so not a big deal (i.e. not underground plumbing or some other nightmare! :))
 
As far as the pump, until we get help from someone with the intellicenter experience, I would use the settings to disable flow control, and just use RPM control, around 1500 RPM for your normal schedule for now, certainly no more than 2000 needed to circulate and filter the pool water. As time goes along, you'll probably find that less will work. Throttle back your near return jets until you get flow from your further away return jets. Higher pump speed will only be needed for backwashing.
 
needsajet said:
That's good news and suggests your only problem is leakage when using your vacuum, so not a big deal
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I would then check the coupling attachment at the vac plate where the corrugated hose attaches to the white cuff. Being 2 different materials and under constant tugging, many don’t last a year. If the pool water isn’t above the connection, you can hear it sucking air and bubbling when in use. Flip the vac head upside down somewhere where it will stay that way (with the pole laying in a corner for example) and go inspect the connection while in use. With only slight tears you can still use it fine by filing the cuff with water. (Splash some in there). It will take surprisingly long to suck it all out. 15 mins later do it again when you here the bubbles.
 
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