I have tried for several days to get my total alkalinity down in a 50,000 gallon vinyl liner in ground pool. Every time I lower the ph to get TA down, the ph pops back up and the TA doesn't ever seem to stay down. I have introduced a little air into the pump to increase aeration, but it has not made a difference. I need to slam the pool. Instead of slamming, I decided to floc it. I vacuumed and it's actually pretty clear, besides the floc that didn't sink. What else can I do to reduce TA?
Cannot get total alkalinity down
- Thread starter amycole84
- Start date
- Mar 5, 2020
- 3,221
- Pool Size
- 66000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Astral Viron V35
Welcome to TFP, great to have you here.
Couple of questions before moving on. What is your current TA, and how did you measure it?
Slamming is good to get a green pool under control, but won't show any effect on TA. Floc also won't have any effect on TA.
Aeration itself will not reduce TA. The only thing that reduces TA is adding acid, which will reduce pH and TA. Aeration will then bring pH back up without changing TA, allowing you to add more acid. Doing this cycle a couple of times will eventually reduce TA.
But before doing to this, we need to know what your TA actually is (based on a measurement with a good quality test kit like a TF100 or a Tayler K-2006), and why you want to reduce it.
Couple of questions before moving on. What is your current TA, and how did you measure it?
Slamming is good to get a green pool under control, but won't show any effect on TA. Floc also won't have any effect on TA.
Aeration itself will not reduce TA. The only thing that reduces TA is adding acid, which will reduce pH and TA. Aeration will then bring pH back up without changing TA, allowing you to add more acid. Doing this cycle a couple of times will eventually reduce TA.
But before doing to this, we need to know what your TA actually is (based on a measurement with a good quality test kit like a TF100 or a Tayler K-2006), and why you want to reduce it.
Total alkalinity is measuring 150-160, with ph at 7.2-7.4, I have introduced acid 2x using the tfp calculator. I am reducing the ph at night with muriatic acid and checking the ph and ta in the morning and in the afternoon. The TA will go down to about 120-130 and pop right back up by the evening. I feel like my pool is somewhat resistant to total alkalinity changes. I am using a taylor test kit 2000. Also, I'm converting the pool over to salt as soon as my numbers are great and the pool is clear. I have a circupool SWG which is installed but I have not used. Also, I have not put any salt in my pool.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,761
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
What is the pH and TA of your fill water?
Do you have an autofill?
What are you using to chlorinate your pool now? Trichlor?
Do you have an autofill?
What are you using to chlorinate your pool now? Trichlor?
For a pool with 50,000 gallons, a pH of 7.9 and a TA of 160, you would add about 1.5 gallons of 31.45% acid, which should lower the pH to 7.2 and lower the TA by 15 ppm.
What is the percentage of the acid?
What is the percentage of the acid?
I cannot find acid at that concentration only 14.5, I'm not sure how much I added, but it was the exact amount according to TFP. I am using the app and do not have the premium version, so I had to delete the addition on my log.
I have not tested my fill water, it is regular tap water. I do not have an autofill. I am not chlorinating the pool, I want to slam it first but I cannot even get the TA and PH where I need it to slam.
Amy, I was having the same issue. It turned out, I just wasn't adding enough acid and not aerating ebough. After i learned here, it was simple. When my PH was around 7.8 or 8, i used pool math to calculate how much acid i needed to bring PH down to 7.2 which also lowered my TA by about 10. Then aerate until PH was back at 7.8 to 8 and repeat with acid. Each time lowered my TA by about 10ppm. It will take several cycles of that process. Took me about week and 4 or 5 cycles of that.
You could read through my thread on the same topic and the experts here answered pretty much everything you need to know.
www.troublefreepool.com
You could read through my thread on the same topic and the experts here answered pretty much everything you need to know.
Alkalinity won't go down...
Hi all. I'm new here but I've done tons of reading. I am dealing with my first pool in a house i purchased last month. It is an outdoor diving pool calculated at about 15,000 gallons. I have a new tf100 test kit and I've been following the instructions precisely when testing. My alkalinity...
www.troublefreepool.com
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,761
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
So test your fill water for pH and TA using your test kit.
There is no requirement to get the TA anyplace for the SLAM Process. A pH in the low 7's is good for it and you posted you have it.
Whatever you are trying to do forget about your TA. It is not that important. Youc an run your SWG with whatever TA you have.
Post a complete set of test results...
FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA
SALT
I read through your previous post about this, I appreciate your answer. How did you aerate your pool? I'm having a little difficulty finding out how I can aerate well.Amy, I was having the same issue. It turned out, I just wasn't adding enough acid and not aerating ebough. After i learned here, it was simple. When my PH was around 7.8 or 8, i used pool math to calculate how much acid i needed to bring PH down to 7.2 which also lowered my TA by about 10. Then aerate until PH was back at 7.8 to 8 and repeat with acid. Each time lowered my TA by about 10ppm. It will take several cycles of that process. Took me about week and 4 or 5 cycles of that.
You could read through my thread on the same topic and the experts here answered pretty much everything you need to know.
Alkalinity won't go down...
Hi all. I'm new here but I've done tons of reading. I am dealing with my first pool in a house i purchased last month. It is an outdoor diving pool calculated at about 15,000 gallons. I have a new tf100 test kit and I've been following the instructions precisely when testing. My alkalinity...
I was told by the pool store I needed to get the pool clear to start the SWG, as it was chlorine last year and I have not added any salt to the poo. I did not know there was not a goal to slam. I'm very confused at this point. Should I run the SWG for the first time, even though I have not added salt? I will post results as soon as I am home to test them. Thank you everyone for your help.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,761
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Depends on the current condition of your pool.
What does the water look like?
Post pics.
Post water chemistry.
Please read the SLAM Process
No, you need to add salt and let the pump run for 24 hours and dissolve the salt before you turn on the SWG.
- Jul 3, 2013
- 9,027
- Pool Size
- 15000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool SJ-40
Before adding salt make sure you test your water now to see how much salt you already have in your pool.. It will be more than you think... Once you put how much you have already in poolmath and find out how much you need, add about 3/4 of the salt and test it 12 hours or so later... then if needed add the rest..
I overshot my mark with 1 bag extra that I did not need this year, if only I listened to myself
I overshot my mark with 1 bag extra that I did not need this year, if only I listened to myself
- Mar 5, 2020
- 3,221
- Pool Size
- 66000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Astral Viron V35
How high was the pH before you added acid? It sounds like it was only like 7.4 and you added enough acid to get it down to 7.2. In this case, the effect on TA would be quite small. You want the pH somewhere above 7.6 and add enough acid to get pH down to 7.0-7.2 to have a significant effect on TA. And then repeat this a few times.
Could it be that you didn't run the pump long enough before testing pH and TA? You might have tested in an area with a higher acid concentration, where the local TA was lower. Once the acid was properly mixed in, you saw the real TA. That's the only way how TA might appear (!!!) to rise back up again. TA can only rise by adding fill water with a TA higher than the pool water, or by adding a chemical like baking soda that increases TA.
If you are having problems to get pH above 7.6, then there is actually no urgency to lower TA, unless you have really high CH and you need low TA to get CSI under control. Otherwise, lowering TA is only required if pH keeps drifting up too quickly. There is no need to force TA down unless you have one of those two problems.
Are you adding any form of chlorine at the moment? Having enough FC in the water is your number one priority. Before worrying about TA, make sure that you have enough chlorine according to the FC/CYA chart:
The Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid Relationship
Managing your cyanuric acid and Free Chlorine levels is key to stabilizing your pool. Learn how these two items affect each other.
www.troublefreepool.com
Use liquid chlorine until you can run the SWG.
Just to confirm the kit you are using: Do you have the Taylor K-2006 or the K-2000? The K-2000 is only a very basic FC/pH kit - that doesn't really make sense as it doesn't have a TA test. You need the K-2006. If you have the K-2005, then you'd still need an add-on FAS/DPD test for the TFP method. Only FAS/DPD has the required precision and allows to measure SLAM-levels - DPD alone is not sufficient.
I have theHow high was the pH before you added acid? It sounds like it was only like 7.4 and you added enough acid to get it down to 7.2. In this case, the effect on TA would be quite small. You want the pH somewhere above 7.6 and add enough acid to get pH down to 7.0-7.2 to have a significant effect on TA. And then repeat this a few times.
Could it be that you didn't run the pump long enough before testing pH and TA? You might have tested in an area with a higher acid concentration, where the local TA was lower. Once the acid was properly mixed in, you saw the real TA. That's the only way how TA might appear (!!!) to rise back up again. TA can only rise by adding fill water with a TA higher than the pool water, or by adding a chemical like baking soda that increases TA.
If you are having problems to get pH above 7.6, then there is actually no urgency to lower TA, unless you have really high CH and you need low TA to get CSI under control. Otherwise, lowering TA is only required if pH keeps drifting up too quickly. There is no need to force TA down unless you have one of those two problems.
Are you adding any form of chlorine at the moment? Having enough FC in the water is your number one priority. Before worrying about TA, make sure that you have enough chlorine according to the FC/CYA chart:
The Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid Relationship
Managing your cyanuric acid and Free Chlorine levels is key to stabilizing your pool. Learn how these two items affect each other.
Use liquid chlorine until you can run the SWG.
Just to confirm the kit you are using: Do you have the Taylor K-2006 or the K-2000? The K-2000 is only a very basic FC/pH kit - that doesn't really make sense as it doesn't have a TA test. You need the K-2006. If you have the K-2005, then you'd still need an add-on FAS/DPD test for the TFP method. Only FAS/DPD has the required precision and allows to measure SLAM-levels - DPD alone is not sufficient.
Taylor k2005 salt kit, which does has testing capabilities for fas-dpd.How high was the pH before you added acid? It sounds like it was only like 7.4 and you added enough acid to get it down to 7.2. In this case, the effect on TA would be quite small. You want the pH somewhere above 7.6 and add enough acid to get pH down to 7.0-7.2 to have a significant effect on TA. And then repeat this a few times.
Could it be that you didn't run the pump long enough before testing pH and TA? You might have tested in an area with a higher acid concentration, where the local TA was lower. Once the acid was properly mixed in, you saw the real TA. That's the only way how TA might appear (!!!) to rise back up again. TA can only rise by adding fill water with a TA higher than the pool water, or by adding a chemical like baking soda that increases TA.
If you are having problems to get pH above 7.6, then there is actually no urgency to lower TA, unless you have really high CH and you need low TA to get CSI under control. Otherwise, lowering TA is only required if pH keeps drifting up too quickly. There is no need to force TA down unless you have one of those two problems.
Are you adding any form of chlorine at the moment? Having enough FC in the water is your number one priority. Before worrying about TA, make sure that you have enough chlorine according to the FC/CYA chart:
The Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid Relationship
Managing your cyanuric acid and Free Chlorine levels is key to stabilizing your pool. Learn how these two items affect each other.
Use liquid chlorine until you can run the SWG.
Just to confirm the kit you are using: Do you have the Taylor K-2006 or the K-2000? The K-2000 is only a very basic FC/pH kit - that doesn't really make sense as it doesn't have a TA test. You need the K-2006. If you have the K-2005, then you'd still need an add-on FAS/DPD test for the TFP method. Only FAS/DPD has the required precision and allows to measure SLAM-levels - DPD alone is not sufficient.
sacredcow
Silver Supporter
- May 8, 2018
- 337
- Pool Size
- 14000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
When I moved into this house, the TA of the pool was over 200- No idea why, and everything else was mostly OK.
It took an entire summer to get it back down to under 100; It's definitely not a quick process.
It took an entire summer to get it back down to under 100; It's definitely not a quick process.
- Mar 5, 2020
- 3,221
- Pool Size
- 66000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Astral Viron V35
That water does look like a SLAM is in order. Are those green patches algae, do they react to brushing, or are they metal stains?
Don't worry about TA now, you need to get chlorine in asap. You should never allow FC to drop below the min level in the FC/CYA chart.
I suggest to follow the SLAM process:
www.troublefreepool.com
Keep the SWG off for now. Once your pool is clear, you can add more salt and start the SWG.
The K-2005-Salt is a great kit, but it doesn't have the FAS-DPD test, it only has DPD. That means you add DPD powder or drops which turns the water pink. The exact shade of pink correlates with the FC-level. That is not very precise and doesn't allow to test at higher FC-levels required during a SLAM.
Only the K-2006 has the FAS-DPD test. After adding the DPD, you add FAS drops until the sample turns from pink to clear. The number of drops gives you an exact measurement of the FC-level.
You can buy a separate FAS-DPD test as an add-on to your K-2005 kit. You will need that for your SLAM.
Don't worry about TA now, you need to get chlorine in asap. You should never allow FC to drop below the min level in the FC/CYA chart.
I suggest to follow the SLAM process:
SLAM - Shock Level and Maintain
We’ve all had to deal with a green pool. Clear algae from your pool with a SLAM! Read here to use shock level and maintain to clear your pool.
www.troublefreepool.com
Keep the SWG off for now. Once your pool is clear, you can add more salt and start the SWG.
The K-2005-Salt is a great kit, but it doesn't have the FAS-DPD test, it only has DPD. That means you add DPD powder or drops which turns the water pink. The exact shade of pink correlates with the FC-level. That is not very precise and doesn't allow to test at higher FC-levels required during a SLAM.
Only the K-2006 has the FAS-DPD test. After adding the DPD, you add FAS drops until the sample turns from pink to clear. The number of drops gives you an exact measurement of the FC-level.
You can buy a separate FAS-DPD test as an add-on to your K-2005 kit. You will need that for your SLAM.