New Central Florida Build

smcdonald001 · Jul 15, 2020

Hello everyone! I'm new to the forum, but will be here for the long haul as my wife and I are planning to take care of our pool ourselves once it is complete. Pool is a 16' x 32' with additional 5'x16' sunshelf off to the side, a built in spa-like bench in one corner, and a swimout on the deepend. The entire pool and deck is going to be screened and part of the deck is even getting an elite aluminum panel roof over it. Currently we are in the pool shell stage and are waiting for concrete to fully cure so that the dirt can be back filled and plumbing completed. Our water features are going to be 3 bubblers on the sunshelf, 4 therapy jets on the bench, 4 deck jets on the backside of the pool, and the best will be a sr smith turbo twister pool slide going into the deep end.
Click here for slide

Equipment is going to be 2 intelliflo pumps, 1 for the therapy bench jets and 1 for filtering and all other water features.
Pentair cartridge filter
Pentair ultratemp 140k heater
Pentair intellicenter with ic40 SWG cell (i8psic40)
indoor control panel and total of 4 intellivalve actuators.
4 pool lights

I will be doing all of the automation after the pool builder is complete as they didn't really seem to know enough to make me comfortable with them installing it.

Couple questions, does anyone have an opinion of how exactly the pool should be plumbed in order to most effectively control all features independently of each other? Does it make sense to put the 4 therapy jets on their own pump? Does anyone know if the intellicenter has the ability to control the heater where we can use the heater on either pump or water feature? (I think the builder is going to plumb the heater with the primary pump to best heat the pool, but we would like to be able to use the heater to also heat the therapy jets when in use)

Also in another thread I had started, others have recommending getting a pool robot vacuum instead of the builder supplied pentair dorado suction cleaner. Keep in mind the pipe for the dedicated suction line is already installed in the pool shell, what are yall's opinion on this? Keep in mind this pool is going to be screened in so hopefully not to much debris to get into the pool.

Attached is a few pictures of the project so far and of the pool layout from our builder(we have made a few changes since the drawing was done, most notably changing the pumps to 2 intelliflo and adding an additional 5ft of deck and screen to the left of the pool so that it goes all the way even with the left side of the house.

Any other input is greatly appreciated.

newdude · Jul 15, 2020

Hey S and welcome. Looking sweet so far. The others will be around at some point. Build threads are quite popular in these parts.

ajw22 · Jul 15, 2020

Get a large cartridge filter. Most Florida pool builders install too small of a filter. The bigger, the better.

What will the 4 IntelliValves be connected to?

You don't need the therapy jets on its own pump if in "therapy jet (spa)" mode a valve changes the pump return from the pool to the therapy jets. Then the heater works for both.

smcdonald001 · Jul 15, 2020

i believe valves will be 1 for slide, 1 for deck jets, 1 for bubblers, and 1 for pool returns. I told the builder I want to be able to use all water features at the same time. They said that a 2nd pump would be needed and best to put on the therapy jets because they will need the most water.

ajw22 · Jul 15, 2020

smcdonald001 said:
i believe valves will be 1 for slide, 1 for deck jets, 1 for bubblers, and 1 for pool returns. I told the builder I want to be able to use all water features at the same time. They said that a 2nd pump would be needed and best to put on the therapy jets because they will need the most water.

I am skeptical that one pump can give adequate flow to a slide, deck jets, bubblers, and pool returns.

I would do a dedicated water features pump for the slide, deck jets, and bubblers. The water features pump will be a low head high flow pump.

Then have the other pool pump switch in spa mode between the pool returns and the therapy jets. You will not care if there is no flow out of the pool returns when the therapy jets are active.

@mas985 thoughts?

smcdonald001 · Jul 15, 2020

So it took me a few minutes to understand the change you recommend. And I really like it, it seems much simpler to me as we would like to use the heater for both the pool returns and the therapy jets. (I'm not sure why the pool builder didn't think of that). So if I have them plump it like this, 1 actuator would be to switch between pool returns and therapy jets. And other 3 would be used 1 for each: slide, deck jets, bubblers. Am I correct to assume there would still be a couple hand valves 1 for intake skimmer and main drain, and 1 for the suction side cleaner(I may upgrade to a robot, but they have already included a dedicated suction line in the bid).

Would you recommend 2 intelliflo pumps for this application, I know I want variable speed as I want to be able to control flow so I can run all 3 water features effectively but not overkill if I only want 1 feature. I'm not sure about the 3 bubblers, or the 4 deck jets, but the slide says it needs 35-40gpm.

ajw22 · Jul 15, 2020

Water Features - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

If more than one Deck Jet water feature is used on a pool, a PVC ball valve should be used to control the flow to EACH effect. This is because the flow and pressure requirements are so low that any difference in water pressure caused by piping length will be noticed.

Wouldn’t you want to leave the cleaner in the pool most of the time and have the Intellicenter run it daily for a few hours? In which case you want a diverter and actuator on the suction line.

Let’s see what pump @mas985 suggests for the water features.

smcdonald001 · Jul 16, 2020

yes, my wife and I are thinking of leaving the vacuum in the pool like you suggest, so I may need to get another actuator for that. I'm handling all the automation as my pool builder seemed a bit overwhelmed by the automation and they were unable to source the intellicenter due to Covid-19, I was able to purchase the entire kit from polytec pools with the ic40 cell included for less then they wanted to add the easytouch panel; granted I will have to install myself, the builder gave me a $1,000 credit since I'm supplying the SWG and we applied that to adding the 2nd pump

mas985 · Jul 16, 2020

With two pumps, you should really have two independent suction ports. From your description, it sounds like you have at least a skimmer and a MD? Does the skimmer have a wall equalization port? If not, can one be added? Does the MD suction pipe go all the way to the pad or just to the skimmer? What size pipe is planned for each suction line? What about return line size to each of the features?

Do you have any more details on the bubblers and deck jets? Specifically, flow rate requirements and head loss or model numbers?

None are really low head devices and the slide has lift so all of these things require a higher head pump than a waterfall pump so I would use the Intelliflo. That way you can adjust RPM depending on what is running. Assuming 10 GPM for each bubbler and jet and 40 GPM for the slide, that is 110 GPM. So you would need to isolate the Intelliflo on the MD with at least 2.5" pipe. Hopefully the PB put in 3" for the cross pipe between the MDs or the drain will not be ANSI/APSP-7 compliant given the flow rate. But that means the skimmer is solo for the other pump and protect the pump and prevent entrapment, it should have a wall equalization port.

smcdonald001 · Jul 16, 2020

I told the pool builder I thought we should use 2 intelliflo's and plumb it like ajw22 recommended. There are currently 2 main drains with a 2" pipe going to each drain. And there was a 2"pipe connecting the two main drains together. I dont have any pictures from that before they sprayed the shotcrete. IIRC the bubblers and deck jets are 5gpm each so slide, deckjets, bubblers all together should be around 75-80 gpm if i ran them all at the same time.

mas985 · Jul 16, 2020

With 2" pipe, you really shouldn't exceed 63 GPM for the skimmer or MD pair (i.e. 120 GPM total) so it is not advisable to isolate a pump on the MD or even run two pumps off both the skimmer and MD. I don't see how your setup can safely support two Intelliflo's. How much flow rate do the bench jets use? I would double check on all of the flow rate requirements for each feature. Your setup may not be able to support all of them at the same time.

smcdonald001 · Jul 16, 2020

If you look in the pictures on the far end of the pool, there are 2 2" pipes coming from the main drains. So couldn't it be 63gpm x 3 2 main drain pipes and a skimmer? I'm no expert. Originally pool was plumbed for only 1 pump and I was talking with the builder and they said I would not be able to run all the water features at the same time as the therapy jets. That is when they recommended a 2nd pump. This was after shotcrete was already sprayed. They may be going to add another suction port somewhere, I'm really not sure.

mas985 · Jul 16, 2020

A MD should have a pair of drains TEEd together and only one pipe sent back. Like this:

I don't see the MD in the pictures. The plastic is covering it. So are there 2 MD pairs (four covers) with 2 pipes. Or is there only one pipe per MD cover? If so, that is not APSP-7 compliant and an entrapment risk. So you have to use an SRVS device.

smcdonald001 · Jul 16, 2020

No its not plumbed like that. It is only 1 pair. But it has 1 pipe coming back from each cover. And 1 pipe connecting the 2 together. Look in the 3rd picture far end, you can see the 2 pipes sticking up above the pool shell. I can draw a picture later if it helps explain.

mas985 · Jul 16, 2020

That is not a proper way to install main drains. They should be tied together closer to the covers. I would find out what the PBs intentions are for those lines and if they plan on adding any other suction ports.

smcdonald001 · Jul 16, 2020

Im sorry i just remembered what it looked like. It did look like your picture mas985, but intead of having 1 tee fitting and 1 pipe coming up, it has 2 tee fittings and 2 pipes coming up from the pipe that connects the 2 main drains. I assumed it was because we were getting 2 pumps. But i cant remember exactly at what point we decided to add the 2nd pump.

mas985 · Jul 16, 2020

That is a better installation however, it still limits the flow rate to 63 GPM at the main drain. It doesn't matter how pipes are branched off of the MD pair. What sets the flow rate is the pipe size at the MD itself which is 2".

http://www.floridabuilding.org/fbc/commission/FBC_1015/commission_Education_POC/646/646-0-MATERIAL.pdf

If the walls are still exposed, he really needs to install a pair of wall drains for the second pump and use at least 2.5" pipe for the cross tee.

smcdonald001 · Jul 24, 2020

Wanted to give an update. Current main drain pair and skimmer are going to be connected to the primary pump to supply both the pool returns and the therapy jets. Like you recommended mas985 PB is planning to add multiple wall sunction ports to supply the water feature pump. He didn't say for sure what size plumbing he was going to use, but he assured me everything would be to code.

Most of the backfill is complete, and plumbing is supposed to be finished by end of next week (weather permitting)

On a side note I have received my i8psic40 intellicenter as well as the related parts (indoor control panel, valve expansion module, com expansion module, 2 20amp breakers for the pumps, ic40 SWG and the 4 intellivalve actuators) and all I can say is WOW!!! I am totally impressed by the build quality of this product. From the product weight, to the size of the transformers and wiring inside, to the way everything was packaged and even the nicely bound instruction manuals. Everything about this product makes me glad I made the purchase and I feel like the product will last a very long time.

smcdonald001 · Aug 14, 2020

Hey just thought I would give another update to anyone following the build. Attached are some pictures of the backfill that was completed 3 weeks ago, and all of the plumbing got finished today, just waiting for an inspection. The 2nd M/D pair was added into the deep end wall and a 2nd skimmer is set to be added soon (both of these will be supplying the 2nd pump. Several pipes are simply stubbed up at this time including both skimmer pipes, slide pipe, deck jet pipe, and the pipe that is coming from the autofill. I had a question, maybe someone can answer I know the deckjet pipe is stubbed up outside of the deck area because a inground valve box is going to house the 4 ball valves that supply 1 deckjet per ball valve, but the PB also has the pipe for the autofill stubbed up outside of the deck area. Is there going to be a box in the ground for this feature also. Just wondering because if so I may want the PB to move this to the side of the pool where the pumps and filters are going.

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