Bonding

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Prickly

Prickly

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2020
127
Kelowna
Pool Size
31000
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Aqua Rite (T-9)
Hi everyone,

I am new to this group and this is my first post. I just had a fiberglass pool installed. I live in Canada and contacted the provincial electrical safety inspector to enquire about bonding the metal fence that will surround my pool when I discovered that my electrician didn't obtain a permit or request an inspection. The inspector promptly came out for a site visit and identified some issues - others are not clear as the concrete has been poured and the bonding work is concealed. I have some pictures of the work in progress before the concrete went in but I didn't capture everything as I didn't know what I was looking for at the time.
It appears that my equipment is connected together with a copper wire for bonding purposes but I am quite certain that this wire does not connect to the bonding that was done directly around the pool. I believe the water was bonded through the skimmer and the copper bonding wire surrounded the pool in a circle and connected to the rebar but didn't run back to the equipment directly. I believe there was a grounding plate connected to the copper wire around the pool as well. The pool light is not bonded but it apparently doesn't have to be as it is 12V and is connected to a GFCI and surrounded by plastic components. There is no metal in the pool and the only metal around the pool is the rebar under concrete (however I will have an aluminum fence within 3 feet of the pool that will have to be bonded).

I am sure this is a question for an electrician but I am hoping someone here may be able to help as I can no longer trust my electrician. Is the bonding that surrounds the pool connected to the bonding at the equipment pad (20 feet away) by way of the water, or does there have to be a direct connection via copper wire from the pool bonding wire to the equipment bonding? I am really hoping we are not jack hammering out the concrete. This project has been a nightmare to say the least.

I appreciate any feedback!!!!
 

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In the states under NEC that wouldnt fly. The water bond needs to be 9sq inches and that connects to the pool equipment and if rebar in the slab that would need connecting too. No reason for rebar in that slab I would have used fibermesh to avoid it. Here they would shut the job down with a stop work order for no permit and make life miserable going forward. The fence needs to be bonded as well. If the inspector is nice he may let you open up a small section of concrete and attach and let it go. Most want 4 attachment spots equal distance around the pool and the rebar must be wire tied
 
jimmythegreek said:
In the states under NEC that wouldnt fly. The water bond needs to be 9sq inches and that connects to the pool equipment and if rebar in the slab that would need connecting too. No reason for rebar in that slab I would have used fibermesh to avoid it. Here they would shut the job down with a stop work order for no permit and make life miserable going forward. The fence needs to be bonded as well. If the inspector is nice he may let you open up a small section of concrete and attach and let it go. Most want 4 attachment spots equal distance around the pool and the rebar must be wire tied
Click to expand...
Thanks for your reply. I believe the copper bond wire is tied to the rebar at 4 points and I suspect (but am not sure) that there must be a hidden metal plate in the skimmer that bonds the water ?

It's too late for a stop work order because their work was complete but they will be forced to make it compliant.

Instead of ripping out concrete to find the wire and run that back to the equipment pad do you think I could run something through the conduit that goes to the pool light? I could have the current light removed and look into a wet niche type. Or would that not work because it isnt directly tied to the wire that connects to the rebar around the pool?
 
You have to somehow tie it all together. That's what bonding is. Not just groups of bonded items it all joins together. Cant run bonding inside conduit to light. If you have a skimmer bond you can see it clearly. Wire comes out of back of skimmer above the water line. What type of light do you have
 
In my picture it looks like the copper wire ties into the back of the skimmer but I cant see any wire on the inside of the skimmer. I cant see why they would connect the bond wire to the skimmer if there is no metal in it to bond the water though?
This is the light I have:

Pool Supply World

poolsupplyworld.com poolsupplyworld.com
 
jimmythegreek said:
You have to somehow tie it all together. That's what bonding is. Not just groups of bonded items it all joins together. Cant run bonding inside conduit to light. If you have a skimmer bond you can see it clearly. Wire comes out of back of skimmer above the water line. What type of light do you have
Click to expand...
Screenshot_20200708-202718_Gallery.jpg
 
jimmythegreek said:
You dont bond that type of light only wet niche. If skimmer has water bond plate you would clearly see the metal plate inside it
Click to expand...

Oh no - I dont see a plate in the skimmer. Do you know if the plate can be added after installation is complete or would that involve ripping out concrete to replace the entire skimmer?
 
The pool water can be bonded to the bonding loop with a device like:
  • the Burndy BWB680AGRK Waterbug Pool Water Bonding Kit. You drill a hole through your skimmer and install it there.
  • the Perma-Cast PB2008 Water Bonding Fitting PB-2008 in the pipe going to the pump on a tee fitting
Look for something like this in the skimmer...

Burndy_Waterbug_Skimmer_Bonding.jpg
 

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ajw22 said:
The pool water can be bonded to the bonding loop with a device like:
  • the Burndy BWB680AGRK Waterbug Pool Water Bonding Kit. You drill a hole through your skimmer and install it there.
  • the Perma-Cast PB2008 Water Bonding Fitting PB-2008 in the pipe going to the pump on a tee fitting
Look for something like this in the skimmer...

Burndy_Waterbug_Skimmer_Bonding.jpg
Click to expand...
Thank you. Is there a way I can connect my pool fence without have to cut out concrete to find the loop?
 
My equipment is connected together with a copper wire, however it is not connected to the copper wire that surrounds the pool. I cant find the applicable electrical code for Canada, but the one I found for Ontario states the equipment doesnt have to connect to the bonding around the pool if it is more than 3 meters away (which mine is) so I suspect that is why it was done this way.

The inspector said the water doesnt have to be bonded here, only metal parts within 5 feet of the pool. This seems to defeat the whole purpose of bonding!
 

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Brianf60 said:
Is there a copper wire running from your pool equipment into the ground? The pool equipment needs to be connected to the pool and the deck. Your fence Williams connect to everything else. Can you add some pics of your equipment
Click to expand...
I posted above but didnt hit reply so I dont think it notified you. Sorry, I'm new to this!
 
I found a document explaining the bonding and grounding requirements in my province. It seems contradictory to what is required in the US
 

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Prickly said:
I found a document explaining the bonding and grounding requirements in my province. It seems contradictory to what is required in the US
Click to expand...

It does not look very contradictory to me.

The Canada document specifies #6 copper bonding wire while in the US #8 is acceptable.
 
Looks like the pool amd deck if rebar in 4 spots. All handrails amd the equipment the only difference is #6 amd tied at the panel, we dont do that here. I dont see light requirements or water bonding so theres info missing. Wet niches get bonded everywhere I beleive. I'd call the inspector they are usually great resources of what you need and often helpful
 
jimmythegreek said:
Looks like the pool amd deck if rebar in 4 spots. All handrails amd the equipment the only difference is #6 amd tied at the panel, we dont do that here. I dont see light requirements or water bonding so theres info missing. Wet niches get bonded everywhere I beleive. I'd call the inspector they are usually great resources of what you need and often helpful
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice. I spoke with the inspector and he said the water doesnt have to be bonded but it has to run back to the panel and get grounded there. I also have to find the bond wire under the concrete deck so I can attach my fence to it. I have a pretty good idea of where I can find it from my framing pictures where I can see it tacked down to the rebar near the edge . I'm hoping I can use a hole saw and take some small segments out to hopefully locate it. Do you think that will work or is there a better way?
 
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