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JayK

JayK

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2019
107
St. Louis
Hello everyone,

Soon to be a new pool owner here. Very very tight fit for my pool. In fact, we are to the limit staying within setbacks for the property. Looking at a 45' long pool with a bell shape at the end (Narrow is 16' wide is 23'). You can look at the pics. in REALITY, for our first love, which is volleyball, we have a "court" which will be 16ft wide and 35' long. (This excludes out things like Steps and such). I expect this to be fine for a team of 4 or 5 per side. Now as for depth. My plan is to start at 3'6" on the side where the steps are (Since they have to be at that depth anyway. and go DOWN to 4' at the half way point (About 18'). So it should feel level. Once at 4' the other side will stay at 4'. We went to a pool and stood there. measuring, and 4ft felt "deep enough" but shallow enough to play in. No deep end for us. We're looking at perhaps going down to 4'6" in the "bell" section just to give us some standing depth for fun, but people of decent height could still play there. We might just keep the whole thing at 4'.

My mom had a pool. So I grew up with one. This is why I am letting go of the deep end. Kids can jump in 4' of water, but not dive. My memory is that sports, beachball, volleyball, chicken, these were the things we loved. Yes we dove, and went "to the bottom" but in the grand scheme, very little time was spent there. Upkeep cost, water amount etc just don't seem to justify the cost for us. Look at our attachments, and any questions or advice would be wonderful. Hoping this will be large enough..Jay
 

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Hi there Jay, welcome to TFP :)

Interesting pool shape I'm glad you found a way to add as much pool as possible within your yard constraints.

I am concerned that a 4' pool is.... boring? Too dangerous to dive in, you'll still hit bottom with canon balls, and if you live in a particularly warm area the water can start to feel a little swampy in July and August.

You never just floated around on rafts or in rings, noodles etc? You can do that in the deep end.... and DIVE!! Everyone loves to dive and it is a pain to have to constantly be on the look out to warn folks not to dive in. I truly miss diving :(

I love a deep end!

Maddie :flower: <--trying to sway Jay to the deep end :laughblue:
 
Depending on how big the "bowl" is I wonder if you could make it a diving well? I am guessing not as there would be a danger of someone hitting the wall between the 4' play area and the diving well.

I like what you have done. You know what you like to do-play and play hard in your pool. This design should fit that just right!

Now lets add a new game for you to have fun with: https://www.amazon.com/Watermelon-B...s=gateway&sprefix=watermelon+b,aps,177&sr=8-5

Do you have your equipment list yet? If so we can look it over and see if it fits your pool.

Kim:kim:
 
I've have thought about a deep end. The volleyball "field" is 35' long. That seems longer than many others so I was wondering if I could take it down to 20' and then put in a deep end. But alas, I have many reasons for not wanting to go there. Cost, upkeep, etc. It's quite simply a limitation I have to live with. We're going to make the "bell" 4'6" but that's not deep either. However, we went to a pool yesterday and it's pretty easy to swim in 4' of water. Should be okay. I wish I had the money and space to do it all, but in this case, I need to focus on doing one thing well instead of a bunch of things poorly. One more reason, one of my kids is a bit on the short side, 4' is almost unworkable for him. Gotta keep that in mind.

As for equipment:
Putting in 4 LED lights along wall (Facing away from house)
Pentair sand filter
Pentair multi speed pump
250,000 BTU heater (Pool is 23,000 gallons)
We're building a shed on the side of the home to house the equipment, control noise, provide storage space, etc)
Gonna install a wall mounted air pump with 25' retractable hose for filling fun things. :)

One of the things I'm most looking forward too is the "atmosphere" of the place when it's done. Especially at night. Firepit, the pool lit up.. Outdoor kitchen.. Talk about a cool place to hang out.

Maddie, I grew up with a pool.. And God knows we dove and used the deep end. However if you look at time spent in the deep vs the shallow. It was 3x more in shallow. That's where most of the fun, talking etc happened. When you're on a raft, you honestly don't know if you are in deep or shallow water since you're floating anyway! As you can tell I am still obsessing, but I don't know what else to do.

Jay
 

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On the shed for the equipment..........be careful that it is very well ventilated. You do not want anything to overheat in there. It should also be made of water proof stuff as everything in there will get wet at some point.

That IS going to be a great pool and area! Something for everyone! Yeah 4' is a good swimming depth. It is when you go shallower is when you get into trouble with scraped knuckles and such.

Put a TV out there and you will never want to leave that area!

Kim:kim:
 
Ur pool is large and u have room to do whatever u want. 16 is plenty wide and u could make the bell a little deeper like 5 to 6 ft in that area only. I have 2 little ones they love to cannonball I wouldnt let them in 4 ft my 7yo hits bottom in the 3.6 shallow end easily. The other thing I wonder is u said 4 to 5 players a side. I personally wouldnt plan my pool around company being over to play volleyball. Sure u will have parties and friends but 90% of the time its ur family group. Make a pool for them the rest who visit are happy w anything they usually dont have pools. But this is my opinion. Nobody has the perfect setup for all occasions plan for the majority
 
This is fantastic advice. Here's a question: How big should a shallow end be for games and volleyball? Right now, we're looking at a 16'x35' "court size". I'm fine with every decision I've made with this pool EXCEPT the depth. Part of me keeps saying "Keep it all standing depth so you can use 100% of the pool to play in" and the other part says "Give yourself a "deeper area" (I.E. 5ft) for treading water and such.

Right now, I'm leaning towards 3'6" at the steps end, then gradually going to 4' midway through pool (so smaller people have a place to hang) once it gets to 4' then stay there. In the bell area, go down to 4'6" which is still shallow enough for taller people, but deep enough for a little variety.

Another important question: We HAD a 12' long bench in the bell for sitting. There's also a 10' long one near the steps. I got rid of the bench near the bell to save money, but some of you seem to LOVE the seating you have in your pool. Is this something I should put back?

Jay
 

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Sounds like a good design for your planned needs. Personally we find we almost never do any games like that in the pool. We tried and suggested games but when it comes down to it, organizing an "official" game is a lot more trouble than it is worth. For us the pool is a time to do "nothing". Having to organize and take part in a game just isn't for us. We do have a floating basketball net that gets some use. The kids absolutely love the 9 foot depth. Almost wish we had gone with 10 feet. We have lots of diving, cannon balls and underwater swimming.

Looking forward to seeing your progress!

FYI: The game the kids do the most is throw stuff in the deep end and dive for it.

Also I wish as well that we had more in-pool seating. If you look at my pictures you will see a sheer water fall. That has a seat under it. I wish we had followed that seat from where it is all the way around to the sundeck. Also BIG TIME wish we had put in a rail to help getting in the pool. I did not realize how hard this would be to add later. I also didn't realize just how hard it is for older people to get in a pool. We have gotten estimates to add it at around $1200.
 
JayK said:
Another important question: We HAD a 12' long bench in the bell for sitting. There's also a 10' long one near the steps. I got rid of the bench near the bell to save money, but some of you seem to LOVE the seating you have in your pool. Is this something I should put back?
Click to expand...

I like pool seating, but it's a personal choice. My toddler is learning to swim and she can stand on the seats while paddling around. Our long bench is a good place to sit, drink, and socialize. Each seating area also provides a place to get out the water for the kids. We tried to keep a swimming lane right in the middle. We have about 26 linear ft. of seating in addition to the baja shelf.

 

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I'm a big fan of deep ends, but you have to know what you like. If volleyball is the "it" activity for your family/extended family, I'd do 4-5-4. I'd also plan to have a nice basketball hoop pre-planned with in-deck mounting anchors, something like this. I can't tell you how much time is spent shooting hoops in our pool. SR Smith Salt Pool Friendly Hoop w/ Anchors I like our hoop, but the kind I linked to is more aesthetically pleasing. Also decide on your volleyball attachments and anchors so they can be set into the deck and seemless.

And I can't help but to see your pool as heart-shaped, where one side of the heart got stretched out! Squaring off the pool would make it feel much bigger, though be more expensive and my encroach on your setbacks.

BTW - Those renderings are incredibly lifelike!

Enjoy the process.
 
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if you want space for real little ones a sunshelf or large bench is best. I would put it all in the shallow end you have a very small "deep"end and throwing the bench in there takes it all up. remember 3'6"is only 3'2" when the water is in it so 4' isnt much and will get shallow as kids grow. Pool is long term, think of the future. I agree w the game organizing, it is hard to do and they quit early. The diving to get things from deep end and watergun fights trump it all in my pool. And the jumping in is right up there w it all, I think minimum 5' and that is shallow, I think you have the room for a bowl in the bell of 6' and I bet you will be happy you have it down the road. Pool is plenty big for games you dont need standard court size in a pool, its a different type of volleyball you plan in the water. Basketball is actually what my kids like with their friends, it seems like volleyballs constantly go out of the pool and nobody wants to get out to get the ball. For the record Im 6' exactly and I can stand on my toes and barely be above water in my 6' deep end you lose about 4" with the real water height
 
jimmythegreek said:
For the record Im 6' exactly and I can stand on my toes and barely be above water in my 6' deep end you lose about 4" with the real water height
Click to expand...

Sounds like your 6' deep end is really a 5' 8" deep end. Measurements here are always discussed as actual water depth - it's too confusing otherwise.
 
So here's a loaded question.. Looking at my pool plan, how would you do a 5 or 6' deep area for jumping? I cannot do a deep end deeper than 6' but from what I understand, that's deep enough for jumping into (not diving). While I have been designing this with volleyball in mind, my real reason for the depth was that I've heard so many people say that while the deep end is fun for a while, everyone ends up playing in the shallow end. For sports of any kind, water guns, basketball, beach ball, volleyball chicken, etc: Once the water hits your armpits it becomes VERY difficult to move. I felt up to this point that 4' WATER DEPTH was enough to swim in, and play on rafts, etc. I cannot do a real deep end, so that's out of the question. But if I could make the "bell" deeper for jumping, that would be just fine. Not sure it's large enough though.
 
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I am not a fan of jumping into any water you would not dive into. Just too much chance for trouble. While you may not need to ban it, I wouldn't suggest encouraging it. This is doubly important if you have any underwater obstacles such as benches anywhere around where people might think to jump. Someone jumping in and not aware of an underwater bench could seriously injure themselves.

For our pool we are water people and most people spend their time in the deep end. Overall though probably 50/50.
 
jayK you said in your first post to start at 3'6" because it has to be that. I assumed this is a vinyl liner pool. If so you will not get the full depth that measurement is to the top of the wall panel with 2" of pool base. On a concrete pool you can have any depth you want, but it rarely comes out exactly what the prints show both in width and depth wise. You can make a bowl shape in anything, you can cut in a weird angle into the bell in pool base or just smooth bowl it, the liner stretches no problem. In concrete its a piece of cake. I just know from my experience that its nice to submerge into the water up to your neck on warm days and stay there. I made my deeper end very gradual so you can stand easily anywhere on the slope. food for thought. my apologies if you stated what type of pool you were installing I didnt see it if so
 
jimmythegreek said:
jayK you said in your first post to start at 3'6" because it has to be that. I assumed this is a vinyl liner pool. If so you will not get the full depth that measurement is to the top of the wall panel with 2" of pool base. On a concrete pool you can have any depth you want, but it rarely comes out exactly what the prints show both in width and depth wise. You can make a bowl shape in anything, you can cut in a weird angle into the bell in pool base or just smooth bowl it, the liner stretches no problem. In concrete its a piece of cake. I just know from my experience that its nice to submerge into the water up to your neck on warm days and stay there. I made my deeper end very gradual so you can stand easily anywhere on the slope. food for thought. my apologies if you stated what type of pool you were installing I didnt see it if so
Click to expand...
It is a wall pool but we're coating it with AquaBrite instead. Still debating what I am going to do. Right now the deepest end is 4'6" which is up to my shoulders. My concern is that the pool could become "Jack of all trades, master of none" which means if I tread the line between "not very shallow, but not deep enough" the pool could be more useless. For me, there are more games that can be played in a pool you can stand in, than there are in a pool you can dive in. Also I want to avoid a deep end from a financial perspective as well. Most of the pool will be 4' - 4' 3" deep (water depth) Then I was thinking of letting the "bell" go to 4'6" or 4' 8". I get scared when people profess how much they "love" their deep end, and I remember diving in my old pool as well. But I have to accept my limitations and work with what I can do.

Jay
 
so you are going to take a composite wall panel pool and use no liner and spray aquabrite/ecofinish
on it for the finish?

I still say you are going to regret not having a deeper end when the kids get older. you have a BIG pool and plenty of room to play games and utilize the bell for a bowl thats deeper. most people I know buy the basketball hoops and the volleyball nets and they get used very little. everybody likes to swim underwater for toys and just relax in the pool, a shallow end is great for that and you have PLENTY of it.
 

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