Material Coming out of the Pool Return?

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fredricr1

0
Jun 18, 2018
51
Oceanside, CA
All,

Brand new pool owner, so please be gentle!

I have a 10,000ish gallon pool, SWG, Pentair Quad DE filter (100sq foot), variable speed pump. This pool is brand spanking new - 2 months old. FC = 2.4, CC = .6 pH = 7.4, TA = 100 CYA = 50. I'm getting up to speed on chemistry and regular maintenance. Now, the pool store told me phosphates were a bit high after a water test and sold me a weekly conditioner to bring them down. Yes, I've since learned phosphate really isn't an issue to worry about despite what the pool store folks say, but...when I put a cap full of this stuff in the skimmer it comes out of the pool return in a few seconds (cloudy/milky stuff). Part of me says, "duh, it's supposed to spread throughout the water" but I also saw a video online of someone diagnosing pool problems and he said he put something in the skimmer and when he saw it coming out of the return he said this might indicate a problem with the filter. I don't know what he put in, but it was coming out cloudy much like what I'm seeing.

Now, I've also noticed that on occasion, when I haven't added anything, there will be some small bubbles and a little cloudiness coming out of the return. I haven't really done serious diagnosing but whenever I've seen that I noticed that the SWG cell was actively producing chlorine. Not sure if relevant. I also noticed the bubbles when the variable speed pump cycled down from 3000rpm to 1800rpm this morning and within a couple minutes everything went clear, no more bubbles. I took video this morning and can post if that helps.

I guess my question is...does any of the above sound abnormal? If so, recommendations?

TIA,
Fred
 
Post some pics of your equipment pad. Especially your filter multiport valve setting.

What type of SWG? How long do you run your SWG for and at what % setting?

What is your filter pressure?

What test kit do you use?
 
Hi Fred and welcome! :wave: So, a few things to note:
- SWGs can and do often produce champagne sized bubbles from time to time. That's normal.
- VSPs can also create a bit of awkward churning at low speeds causing the build-up of air bubbles in the pump skimmer basket. Generally a kick-up on RPMs once or twice a day resolves that.
- The stuff coming back out of the returns. That's interesting. Usually when we hear of stuff blowing out the returns of a DE filter, we think torn DE grid/finger. But if it's only happening when you added that chemical, if may just be the milkyness of it slipping past. I'd keep an eye on it. If you see DE blowing out, then you have a problem.
- As for the chemicals ….. I suspect those are pool store tests? Please confirm. But if those are accurate, the FC is too low for your current CYA. Please refer to the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA] to see how the FC and CYA should be balanced together.

If you don't have a TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C test kit (link below), we highly recommend it. Pool testing is easy, and as we all learn, if you want something done right, do it yourself. This is one case where you can for sure. Make sure to update your signature with all of your pool and equipment info, and visit our ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry page as well. Nice to have you with us.
 
ajw22 said:
Post some pics of your equipment pad. Especially your filter multiport valve setting.

What type of SWG? How long do you run your SWG for and at what % setting?

What is your filter pressure?

What test kit do you use?
Click to expand...


I've attached a couple pics. This link is to a YT video of the return jet. Hopefully you can see the tiny bubbles and subtle cloudiness coming out. It disipates quickly and the pool is clear.

My filter is the Pentair Quad DE - it doesn't have a multiport setting to my knowledge - just a drain plug at the bottom. It's kind of a hybrid cartridge/DE filter so to clean you remove the cover, take out the elements and hose them off. That's the extent of it - no backwash setting. Pressure is currently at 19 psi. That's higher than it was this morning (12 psi) - quite a climb in one day. Not sure why. I just checked the relief valve and there was no air.

SWG is the Pentair IntelliChlor. I've set it in the 40-50% range for the past week or two - trying to find the sweet spot where my FC remains kinda stable in the 2-3 range. It's running about 12 hours a day. With a variable speed pump most of that is at 1800rpm, a 2.5 hours at 2800rpm for cleaning.

Test kit is the K-2006.

It seems pretty consistent that the tiny bubbles and cloudiness shoots out while the cell is active and stops as soon as the cell goes inactive.
 

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Fred,

That is just the output of the SWCG... You'll notice it when the cell light is on and it will go away when the cell light is off...

Just means it is working...

Jim R.

- - - Updated - - -

You did not say what your CYA level is, but if you keep your FC at 2 to 3 ppm, you may as well plant a sign in your front yard saying "Algae Party this weekend!!!"

You need to keep your FC per this chart... [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Jimrahbe said:
Fred,

That is just the output of the SWCG... You'll notice it when the cell light is on and it will go away when the cell light is off...

Just means it is working...

Jim R.

- - - Updated - - -

You did not say what your CYA level is, but if you keep your FC at 2 to 3 ppm, you may as well plant a sign in your front yard saying "Algae Party this weekend!!!"

You need to keep your FC per this chart... [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]

Thanks,

Jim R.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Jim. That's what I "thought" was happening but wanted to make sure.

About FC and CYA - I have to admit I've been confused about proper levels. Most of what I read online (and in test kits) says to keep FC in the 1-3 range, with 4 on the high side and you shouldn't swim if above 5. I know TFP recs are between 4 and 6 for SWG pools. That's a wide and conflicting range of recommended values! My CYA level is 50. Again, there is a wide range of recommendations. I had a pool service guy come out to fix something and in our discussion he said current APSP guidelines were suggesting CYA levels as low as 30 since higher levels reduce the ability of chlorine to sanitize. Obviously the tradeoff is you have to add chlorine more regularly because it is burning off faster. Admittedly, I may have misunderstood some of what he was telling me because I'm so new at this, but based on what he told me versus what I was reading online, I figured a CYA of 50 was a good compromise. With my numbers, the FC/CYA ratio is low compared to what is recommended here on TFP. I'm still trying to figure out what is "best", what is overkill, and what is potentially harmful to swimmers.
 
Thanks for the reply, TS. Pretty sure the return action is from the salt cell, as you note, so feeling better about it.

About FC and CYA - I have to admit I've been confused about proper levels. Most of what I read online (and in test kits) says to keep FC in the 1-3 range, with 4 on the high side and you shouldn't swim if above 5. I know TFP recs are between 4 and 6 for SWG pools. That's a wide and conflicting range of recommended values! My CYA level is 50. Again, there is a wide range of recommendations. I had a pool service guy come out to fix something and in our discussion he said current APSP guidelines were suggesting CYA levels as low as 30 since higher levels reduce the ability of chlorine to sanitize. Obviously the tradeoff is you have to add chlorine more regularly because it is burning off faster. Admittedly, I may have misunderstood some of what he was telling me because I'm so new at this, but based on what he told me versus what I was reading online, I figured a CYA of 50 was a good compromise. With my numbers, the FC/CYA ratio is low compared to what is recommended here on TFP. I'm still trying to figure out what is "best", what is overkill, and what is potentially harmful to swimmers.

Incidentally, I just got the K-2006 (but not the "C" version). The numbers I posed were from that kit.

Thanks for your insights!
 
Incidentally, I have no idea how my thread header became "Need help with stains" and got posted in the Just Getting Started area when it was supposed to be posted to a plumbing and filter area with the title Material Coming out of Pool Return? Sorry for any confusion. I imagine there are thousands of threads on proper chemistry levels I need to sift through to gain a better understanding of this all!

Moderator Note: I merged the threads.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I had a pool service guy come out to fix something and in our discussion he said current APSP guidelines were suggesting CYA levels as low as 30 since higher levels reduce the ability of chlorine to sanitize.
Click to expand...
An therein lays many of the problems in today's pool world. The pool industry is just now starting to acknowledge the FC/CYA relationship, but until the entire community catches-up to what the founders of TFP has already identified, people will run their FC too low and get algae, which simultaneously seeing their CYA skyrocket (tabs and powders). The [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA] is pure gold and designed to account for all pool types, to include salt pools. The higher CYA provides additional FC protection so the SWG and cells work more efficiently and hopefully last longer. Many of those TFP Recommended Levels take into account not just sanitation, but pool surface and equipment issues as well. Many folks "In the Industry" still don't understand that.

Incidentally, I have no idea how my thread header became "Need help with stains" and got posted in the Just Getting Started area when it was supposed to be posted to a plumbing and filter area with the title Material Coming out of Pool Return? Sorry for any confusion. I imagine there are thousands of threads on proper chemistry levels I need to sift through to gain a better understanding of this all!
Click to expand...
No problem. All is good. I'll fix that.
 
Fred,

You can't have it both ways... You need to follow what your pool guys said or what we say... The pool guy is telling you what he thinks is correct based on what he was taught over the years. TFP is a science based process and we can prove what we recommend...

If you really want to take care of your pool correctly you should follow this chart... [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]

When your CYA is 70 and your FC is 5, it is much safer than an FC of 1 with no CYA... With a CYA of 70 your water is safe to swim in all the up to an FC of 28 ppm...

It is your pool and up to you how you run it, but I suggest that you not try to pick a middle ground.

As a reference.. I run my saltwater pools at an FC of between 6 and 8.. with my CYA between 70 and 80... No chlorine smell, or feel, or any effects of any kind.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

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