Switching to Salt Water

[cowboycasey]

Not sure if you are wanting to stay with a NAME brand SWG, but I love my curcupool SWG.. I have only had it for 1 year but it has worked great... I did have an error on it and I called the company and they next day aired a complete new system to me...

Just so you know, they always have a special and almost always a free upgrade

at 1100 or so and a free upgrade to RJ60 3.2 pounds per day at 100% CircuPool® RJ-45 Salt Pool System
http://www.discountsaltpool.com/CircuPool-RJ-Series-Chlorine-Generator-Manual.pdf

Mine is the SJ series but it only does 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100% but I still like it but I control the amount of chlorine by pump runtime

at 800 for the SJ55 and a free upgrade at 2.35 pounds a day CircuPool® SJ-40 Salt Pool System
http://www.circupool.com/downloads/sj_20150516.pdf

and a 7 year prorated warranty even when you install it..

First Year - No charge for parts.
Second Year - No charge for parts.
Third Year - Parts supplied at 50% of normal price.
Fourth Year - Parts supplied at 60% of normal price.
Fifth Year - Parts supplied at 70% of normal price.
Sixth Year - Parts supplied at 80% of normal price.
Seventh Year - Parts supplied at 90% of normal price.

 

[curtisimo81]

Tell your friend to switch off his ozone system and see if there is any difference in his water quality. My guess is there will be no difference.

Ozone, like UV systems, are good at killing certain types of pathogens that are not as easily destroyed by chlorine. However, those pathogens tend to be rarely found in single-family, low bather-load residential pools. As well, most of those alternative sanitizer systems are fairly "weak sauce" in terms of their output and installation. For example, most residential ozone generators use ambient air as the input gas for a corona discharge (CD) ozone generator. Ambient air is only 18% O2 and it contains more than enough humidity (even in "dry" climates) to severely degrade the O3 production efficiency. This is why I said to tell your friend to disconnect it as the amount of O3 generated is very small compared to the task at hand. UV is a little better but those systems often use lamps with weak output in the UV-C spectrum OR they are plumbed into the pool equipment in such as way as to degrade their performance. Both UV and Ozone need long contact times with water to have an impact. Finally, even if you were to generate strong UV or Ozone, neither of those creates a residual concentration of disinfectant and so therefore can not replace the need for chlorine and, in some cases, can actually increase your chlorine demand.

So, on balance, those systems just become very expensive toys that you add to the equipment pad which increase cost (both installation as well as on-going expense and maintenance) with very little, measurable benefit.

Well that makes a lot of sense. Thank you! Now I guess my biggest dilemma is to decide between the hayward 40k gal or the pentair 60k gal. I know its much cheaper to replace the hayward cells but with the pentair cell you also get the electronics... Any thoughts about the two. I know the pentair would probably be better for the size of my pool but is it worth it? I will be installing either one of these myself since I will save approx $400 on either system. I know pentair only gives a 6 month warranty if you install it yourself and with hayward it seems they stand behind their warranty either way. Does anyone have any thoughts?

- - - Updated - - -

 

[JoyfulNoise]

If you don't have a Pentair automation panel (EasyTouch), then the IC-60 will not be a good choice. Without the automation panel, your output selection is limited to 20% increments.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006

 

[curtisimo81]

What if I can get the IC-40 with automation panel for the same price as the Hayward 40k gallon system? There's a place in Arizona that sells it for 1000k.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I'll assume you meant $1000 and not 1000k

My pool is 16,000 gallon and I have an IC-40. I have to typically run my SWG at 60% output and 10hours of pump runtime during the height of the swim season to keep the chlorine where I want it. Since your pool is quite a bit bigger than mine, it is likely you'd have to run the cell a lot higher output and for longer hours to keep your FC in the right range.

There are different EasyTouch LoadCenter options (4 & 8 relay, spa & no spa, solar/no-solar, etc) that you could pair with an IC60 that might be in your price range. If you call Pentair they can help you figure out what you need and, if you go with the professional install, then you'll get the better warranty.

Just a thought.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006

 

[ping]

I would install the Hayward for the 3 year warranty alone. I would not buy any Pentair product that only gives a 60 day warranty for self installs.

 

[curtisimo81]

I'll assume you meant $1000 and not 1000k

My pool is 16,000 gallon and I have an IC-40. I have to typically run my SWG at 60% output and 10hours of pump runtime during the height of the swim season to keep the chlorine where I want it. Since your pool is quite a bit bigger than mine, it is likely you'd have to run the cell a lot higher output and for longer hours to keep your FC in the right range.

There are different EasyTouch LoadCenter options (4 & 8 relay, spa & no spa, solar/no-solar, etc) that you could pair with an IC60 that might be in your price range. If you call Pentair they can help you figure out what you need and, if you go with the professional install, then you'll get the better warranty.

Just a thought.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006[/QUOTe

Thank you for your reply. I'm just afraid if I go with a 40k gal system it's going to be struggling to keep up during the summer and my cell won't last as long as it should. I'm thinking we may just get the IC-60. I'm going to call around to see what local pool companies would charge to install it. I really don't like spending that amount of money with no warranty. If Hayward sold a 60k gal cell I'd go with them since they honor their warranty on self installs. I just would rather not pay someone to do something I can do. It feels like I'm throwing away money!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Yep, I understand. Unfortunately, this is what many pool equipment manufacturers have chosen to do in order to protect their distribution channels from the pool owners ability to bargain shop. In the world of pool cleaner robots, the Dolphin X5 by Maytronics is a great robot BUT you can't find them anywhere online (aside from eBay or Craig's List, I suppose). You can only buy them legitimately (read: fully warrantied) through their distributors with a huge markup. It's sad, but that's how they protect their profit margins.

There was a thread on here about someone who bought an IC60 online over the summer but did not get around to installing it until the fall. When he had issues with it, Pentair told him that because it was purchased online and self-installed, he was beyond their 60-day warranty. He was able to get his credit card to honor a full year warranty and replace the defective unit, so that might be another option for getting it online and installing it yourself. Just check with your credit card first to see if they will extend/honor a warranty.

 

[curtisimo81]

Yeah I didn't think about that. I know one of our credit cards offers warranty. I'm going to have to ask my wife. But if I do it myself I'm still looking at another $100 or so for salt, glue, and possibly pvc pipe because I don't know if I have a place big enough to install the unit. So with all that it might be worth letting a place install it if it's only a few hundred more. I just really hate paying someone for something I can do..lol I like the hayward system because I don't have a spa and I don't have any lights (at the moment) that I would hook up on an automation system. But my brother was going through cells every 1 year and half because his was constantly at 100%. I just really worry the t-15 cell maybe to small to accommodate my pool. The pool store I use that installed my liner said my pool is 30000 gallons. But when I did the math I get 27000. I know thats not much of a difference but.....Thank you for all your help so far. This site is full of a lot of great people. I can't believe the replies I have received. Thanks again.

 

[chiefwej]

Just as a comp, I have a pool that is 19k gallons, like yours open year-round and I am using a Goldline (now Hayward) AquaRite with the T-15 cell. It has been in place for well over ten years now and I must admit that in the beginning I wasn't very good at keeping the water chemistry in balance. Yet, my first T-15 cell lasted about 7.5 years and cost $300 to replace. So I figure my cell cost at about $40 per year. I have a VS pump that will operate the SWG at anything over 1200 rpm, use 1400 rpm (200 watt draw) to be safe. The SWG runs 8 hours a day during the height of swim season and is seldom if ever set above 50% (generally 30-40%). Based on my experiance, I wouldn't have much hesitation in using a T-15 cell in a larger pool. Although I believe maintaining proper pool chemistry is a key to cell longevity.

 

[curtisimo81]

Thank you all for your replies. I ordered the hayward aquarite with the t-15 cell today. So we will see how it does. Thank you again for all your help. I hope its worth it..lol

 

[chiefwej]

If your cells last 3 years (that is the warranty period) and you can replace them for $300 or less (Internet price), $100 per year isn't a bad cost to chlorinate your pool.

 

[curtisimo81]

If your cells last 3 years (that is the warranty period) and you can replace them for $300 or less (Internet price), $100 per year isn't a bad cost to chlorinate your pool.

Yeah I hope it last at least 3 years... We shall see how long it will last. Now I just need to get my pool sparkling again before I install this unit. I've been fighting this pool for 2 weeks. Just bought 30lbs of shock and some no mor problems. It was recommended by a pool store. I have already tried yellow out and it didn't do anything. My water levels have been perfect for the past two weeks. I shouldn't have let it go the last 3 months. errrrrr..... But thanks again for all your help!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Yeah I hope it last at least 3 years... We shall see how long it will last. Now I just need to get my pool sparkling again before I install this unit. I've been fighting this pool for 2 weeks. Just bought 30lbs of shock and some no mor problems. It was recommended by a pool store. I have already tried yellow out and it didn't do anything. My water levels have been perfect for the past two weeks. I shouldn't have let it go the last 3 months. errrrrr..... But thanks again for all your help!

It sounds like you're getting pool stored....do you have your own test kits??

I hope you did not add any of the No More Problems algaecide?? If you did not, please DO NOT ADD that. It's sodium bromide and you will ruin your pool water with it. Sodium bromide will cause you to have excessive chlorine demand and the only way to get rid of bromine is with a drain and refill.

If you have not already, please read though Pool School and look over the Trouble Free Pool Care methodology. We primarily use bleach or liquid chlorinating products in our pools (or SWG's) and we stress self reliance and self-testing of our pool water with a proper test kit (either a Taylor K-2006 or a TFTestkits.net TF-100). If you rely on pool store testing, then you will be stuck in a cycle of bad testing (they are terrible at it) and costly chemical purchases many of which YOU DO NOT NEED.

I would suggest you return all of your unopened chemicals, get your money back and use it to buy a proper test kit. We will help you with the water chemistry.

Good luck,
Matt

 

[curtisimo81]

It sounds like you're getting pool stored....do you have your own test kits??

I hope you did not add any of the No More Problems algaecide?? If you did not, please DO NOT ADD that. It's sodium bromide and you will ruin your pool water with it. Sodium bromide will cause you to have excessive chlorine demand and the only way to get rid of bromine is with a drain and refill.

If you have not already, please read though Pool School and look over the Trouble Free Pool Care methodology. We primarily use bleach or liquid chlorinating products in our pools (or SWG's) and we stress self reliance and self-testing of our pool water with a proper test kit (either a Taylor K-2006 or a TFTestkits.net TF-100). If you rely on pool store testing, then you will be stuck in a cycle of bad testing (they are terrible at it) and costly chemical purchases many of which YOU DO NOT NEED.

I would suggest you return all of your unopened chemicals, get your money back and use it to buy a proper test kit. We will help you with the water chemistry.

Good luck,
Matt

Well unfortunately I already added the no mor problems but I can say I won't use it anymore. I have the Taylor K-2006 test kit and typically moniter my chemicals myself. Just with letting it go for 3 months (due to having a baby that spent 2 months in NICU unit) I didn't have time to mess with the pool. I decided to get help with the water and thats what they sold me. I put 10 lbs of shock in it yesterday and 10 lbs today. I used 16oz of the no mor problems yesterday, but won't be adding anymore. My pool is still green. I have been shocking it for everyday for 5 days, and the pump has been running 24-7. Here are what my levels are:
PH 7.5
CA-45
CH-220
Alkalinity- 110
Chlorine- over 10 I just tested it before shocking and it was red.....

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Well unfortunately I already added the no mor problems but I can say I won't use it anymore. I have the Taylor K-2006 test kit and typically moniter my chemicals myself. Just with letting it go for 3 months (due to having a baby that spent 2 months in NICU unit) I didn't have time to mess with the pool. I decided to get help with the water and thats what they sold me. I put 10 lbs of shock in it yesterday and 10 lbs today. I used 16oz of the no mor problems yesterday, but won't be adding anymore. My pool is still green. I have been shocking it for everyday for 5 days, and the pump has been running 24-7. Here are what my levels are:
PH 7.5
CA-45
CH-220
Alkalinity- 110
Chlorine- over 10 I just tested it before shocking and it was red.....

You have my sympathies for a tough pregnancy and an extended stay in the NICU. I hope all is better. Obviously no one around here would fault you in anyway for ditching the pool for a few months to take care of what is certainly a more important task. The pool can always be fixed.

So, just to give you some facts and numbers - 16oz of the No Mor Problems algaecide added ~ 7.6ppm of bromine to your pool. Bromine acts as a sanitizer and, in the process of killing algae and things, gets converted to bromide. Chlorine then oxidizes the bromide back into bromine and the cycle starts again. This is how bromine hot tubs work. As you use chlorine (in any form), the chlorine will get partially used up converting the bromide back into bromine and, unfortunately, there's no way to distinguish them through testing. They will both show up on an FAS-DPD test. So, when you do your FC testing, some of the "FC" is in fact bromine (equivalent to ~ 3.5ppm worth of chlorine).

The good news is, over time, the bromine will leave the pool. This happens through water exchanges (backwashing your sand filter) and, if enough aeration is present, bromine will actually evaporate from the pool water (although this is a much slower process). As long as you don't add anymore of the algaecide, you should be ok.

What kind of shock is it? Dichlor or cal-hypo shock? Ether way, you probably want to stop using the powdered stuff and just follow the SLAM Procedure - Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain

 

[curtisimo81]

Thank you for your help. I do have a dumb question that I think I know the answer too.. I just used my leaf vacuum that hooks to the hose (since I can't see my bottom) and got up about 3 full bags(I have the biggest bag I could buy). The last bag filled up about 25% of the way of leaves before my vacuum broke!! The plastic broke on it.. Now with all that, is it possible to get it clear enough to see the bottom if there are still leafs in the pool? Or am I waisting my money on chlorine. I'm headed to the pool store to buy another one since I'm sure there are still some leafs in the bottom. I was just wondering if this is why I've used so much chlorine and shock. By the way the shock was Dichlor. But I just went and got 12 gallons of liquid chlorine and now looks like another trip to the pool store.........

 

[Pool Tool]

Yes, you could eventually get it clear(ish) with leaves in the bottom, but you will use significant more chlorine if there is still debris in the pool. It is really worth your time to remove every last little piece of junk in there.

Using all the shock is more likely because you haven't been Maintaining the FC at SLAM levels. Yes, it's good to dump in a bunch of shock that kills things but that chlorine eventually "wears out" then the algae just grows right back and you are left starting over basically at square one. Believe me... I know from experience. Accurate, timely FC readings are the fastest way to clear it up. Keep it up, you will get there.

I empathize with you - my oldest spent 2 months in the NICU too. Though now that she is 5 years old you would never know! Those rough days for us are now a distant memory thank God and I wish the same for you.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Yeah, you need a leaf rake to pull up all the gunk on the bottom. A vacuum is just not suited for the task. If the plastic handle that plugs into the pole is broken, those are usually fixable/replaceable with a kit you can buy at the pool store...cheaper than a new vacuum head.

You need to clear the debris off the bottom of the pool (leaves and gunk) or else all of your chlorine is just going to get consumed. Try using the "Vacuum to Waste" feature on your sand filter with the variable speed pump running on slowest possible to get good suction. If you do this gently without churning the water too much, you can suction all the gunk off the bottom of the pool. You'll be discharging some water with it all so you will have to replace the lost water with fill water.

 

[chiefwej]

The best way to clear your pool is to:
1. Stay away fron pool stores
2. Pay attention to the advice you get here on the forum.

These people know what they are talking about when it comes to pool care and in particular water chemistry. Do not try to mix advice from this forum with anything you are told by another source. That will just prolong the process. Green to clean does take a little patience and persistence. But if you stick to it you'll get there.