New Member Trying to Chase Down Lost Prime

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The connection's definitely not drawing air, it's like a foot below the waterline.

There's one of these spring-loaded lids on it where the hose plugs in:

418IbzKyBkL._SX425_.jpg

When the hose isn't connected, the spring on the lid closes off the hole.

But with the suction valve on "Cleaner", and no hose attached, and the lid closed, water still gets sucked into the pump from somewhere. Where? Main drain? Skimmer?

I'm just trying to understand the suction plumbing... :confused:
 
I'm not familiar with how that systems works, but I think banditig is right. The lid may not be water tight which would allow some water to pass. but I would think there is some other source to pull water from in case your hose became plugged so as not to create too much suction. As in my suction cleaner which attaches through skimmer plate, I leave one of the main drains partly open so as not to create too much suction or in case cleaner gets clogged
 
Thanks banditig, lefty... makes sense. Like you say, there would have to be some other source for water in case the vac got clogged.

But if the main drain is always open when the cleaner is selected, that means the cleaner never draws full suction. By the way, the water level in our pump basket drops waaaay down when the cleaner is operating. What's that telling us? Clogged main?

Seems to me there should be some way to adjust suction between the main drain and that cleaner port on the wall, no? Just thinking out loud now...
 
duraleigh said:
Please pull some pics back so we can see where your plumbing goes.
Click to expand...

How's this? It's all the suction side plumbing. I'd have to get up on the roof to get a pic of the whole system..

View attachment 44011

It's plumbed like so:

The long tube in the pic above connects to the filter pump. Going back, you can see that pipe connects to an electrically controlled Jandy valve, which is connected to pipes labeled "Spa Suction" (in red) and "Pool Suction" (in blue).

The "Spa Suction" pipe goes directly into the ground then on to the spa drain. There's a checkvalve/flapper in the ground next to the spa to prevent backflow.

The "Pool Suction" pipe is connected to a manual Jandy valve. That Jandy valve is connected to pipes labeled "Skimmer Suction" and "Cleaner Suction".

The "Skimmer Suction" pipe goes directly into the ground then on to the skimmer. There's another checkvalve/flapper in the ground next to the skimmer to prevent backflow.

The "Cleaner Suction" pipe goes into the ground then on to the hose connection in the side of the pool (maybe to the main drain too?). There's a checkvalve/flapper on this pipe just above where it enters the ground. That valve is glued in.. it would have to be cut out to be replaced. There's a photo of it in post #26, middle pic.

So that's basically it for suction.
 
As I sit here and try to understand your plumbing :confused: ;), I have a couple of questions that I hope you and or others can answer.

1- the valve for cleaner/skimmer suction, does it just select one or the other, or can you "blend" the two? in other words can you draw from both. That is how I control/protect my cleaner.

2- You say when the pump is primed and running, you still see air bubbles in pump strainer basket. Would that eliminate an air leak in the pump section as the air seems to be interring the system before the basket?

3- The check valve that is visible, but not serviceable, Does it seem to be operating ok?

4- How does that electrically controlled valve work? This is for my own curiousity. :rolleyes:
 

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lefty51 said:
As I sit here and try to understand your plumbing :confused: ;), I have a couple of questions that I hope you and or others can answer.

1- the valve for cleaner/skimmer suction, does it just select one or the other, or can you "blend" the two? in other words can you draw from both. That is how I control/protect my cleaner.

2- You say when the pump is primed and running, you still see air bubbles in pump strainer basket. Would that eliminate an air leak in the pump section as the air seems to be interring the system before the basket?

3- The check valve that is visible, but not serviceable, Does it seem to be operating ok?

4- How does that electrically controlled valve work? This is for my own curiousity. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Hey lefty...

1. Yes, the valve can blend between cleaner and skimmer.

2. I don't know, makes sense to me, but would like to hear from an expert.

3. Hard to say for sure if it's leaking air or water. I've stared at it with the pump off and the basket full of water, and couldn't see any air bubbles or water gurgling thru it. I don't have a lot of confidence in it tho. I'll give it the shaving cream test when I get the other flappers in. I'm thinking of cutting it out and putting a serviceable check valve in there. Not sure why a non-serviceable one was put in originally.

4. The electric controllers are handy. They screw on to the top of the Jandy valves. They let you select "Spa Suction" and "Spa Return" from inside the house when you want to heat just the spa. You don't have to go down and manually turn the valves. There's also a little switch that activates them when you're down at the equipment.
 
Well, that would be handy. I need to install those so I can operate my pool from the porch lounge chair :D

I noticed you said skimmer basket was only half full when using vacuum. Are their air bubbles or is the basket just half full of water. That confuses me. (but then again that's not a hard thing to do nowadays :rolleyes:)
 
lefty51 said:
Well, that would be handy. I need to install those so I can operate my pool from the porch lounge chair :D
Click to expand...

Ha, go for it! I think they even make wireless controllers now that let you operate it from your phone... you can turn the spa on from the car on the way home from work!

lefty51 said:
I noticed you said skimmer basket was only half full when using vacuum. Are their air bubbles or is the basket just half full of water. That confuses me. (but then again that's not a hard thing to do nowadays :rolleyes:)
Click to expand...

Yeah, confuses me too. It's both air and low water. The water in the basket was always a little lower in "Cleaner" mode than in "Skimmer" mode. The vac never seemed to suck as well as the skimmer. But now the basket only fills a little more than half full in "Cleaner" mode. And there are air bubbles in the basket in both "Cleaner" and "Skimmer" mode.
 
I may be getting off topic from the "losing prime" problem, but the half full in vac mode sounds like when I pump water from underneath the pool (ground water). There is always some air in basket, but as water level underneath gets low, basket is half full until it runs out of water.

I assume it's from not having a strong source of water to draw, which in your case just could be from the long uphill climb. Has it always been that way (half full) from beginning?
 
Yes, the low water in vac mode is a little strange, but the loss of prime is the major issue at the moment. Now I'm wondering about the main drain though...

Don't most pools have a valve that lets you pull directly from the "Main Drain"? Without one, I'm wondering how we would drain the pool assuming we ever wanted to drain it.

We've got four drains down there at the bottom of the deep end. I assume two are returns and the other two are drains (should've paid more attention when the plumbing was going in!).

Could it be that suction to the main drain is only controlled thru that plate in the skimmer?
 
Hmm, 4 drains on deep end. I always assumed drains on the bottom where for draining (suction side). I guess you could have returns on bottom. My pools has two drains on bottom and yes there is a valve to control them (either both open or close or a mixture)

My skimmer is on a line by itself, but I have noticed a plugged off port in bottom of skimmer which I believe could be tied to a bottom drain. I've seen it discussed on here before so hopefully someone with more knowledge will help out here.

I have a simple pool, but one as nice as yours with spa involves more plumbing than what I have experience with.

Since I have obviously reached my limit of expertise, :( I'll sit back and watch and hopefully one of the real pros will step in here. :cool:
 
Ok, put the new flappers in and did the shaving cream test. Results:

Not only do I smell great from all that foamy stuff, but I found a small water leak at the union where the return pipe exits the pump.

I'll get some new PVC tomorrow and repair that line. Fingers crossed, hopefully that's what's causing the loss of prime.

p.s. lefty, be glad you have a simple pool! Sometimes I think ours is way over built. For example, we have a valve that lets us select "Floor Return" or "Side Return". After all these years, I haven't noticed that it makes any difference how or where the water returns to the pool... :confused:
 
A leak at the output side of the pump would allow air to enter when the pump is shut down and can make it difficult or impossible to prime when you start back up. It wouldn't cause it to lose prime while the pump is running though.
 
You have the most beautiful pool! And complex! Maybe one or more of your drains plugged But if you can get a helper put plastic at different places while you change valves to try and see ways to troubleshoot your suction of air
 

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