Waterfall disaster

[TRX559]

Hello,

I started a pond/waterfall build in my backyard. The waterfall feature is approximately 6 feet high with multiple different levels that cascade down to the pond. I wanted to use a sand filter/pump combo that I had lying around for the build. The pump is a XtremepowerUS 3/4HP swimming pool pump (2400GPH). The inlet line is drawing water from approximately 10 feet away. Then the water is pushed through my sand filter and then the outlet shoots up 6 feet to the top of my waterfall.

My issue is the water flow. Once it starts going, the water flow rushes over the edge and shoots out into the pond/surrounding area and skips the entire water feature.

I have very little pump knowledge and looking for suggestions. I can get my hands on another pool pump which is around 1500 GPH. Could this fix my issue? I don't want if I go too low in power/GPH because I'm worried that it won't be strong enough to push the water up high enough?

Another possible idea I was thinking of was to put a "T" valve in the outlet line after the filter. Then have one hose running up the 6 feet to the top of the waterfall and the second hose either running back into the pond or to a different spot of the waterfall. Trying to divert half the water away from the top of the waterfall in hopes to lower the flow of the water. My question with this idea is, if I have two different hoses at two different heights will the pump still pump water to both areas or will the water just go to the easiest (lowest) hose?

PLEASE! any help would be appreciated.

 

[kimkats]

Hi and welcome to TFP! First things first..........you need to pay the picture "tax". We need to see this work of art to really know what you are working with. I have a couple of ideas but need to see what is what. I would like to see where the water is coming out onto the waterfall.

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

Pictures of your equipment setup would help us understand your situation.

Install a 2 way diverter in the outlet pipe to adjust the flow to what works.

 

[Newdude]

then the outlet shoots up 6 feet to the top of my waterfall.

Thats the problem IMO. You need to shoot it into something so that it falls naturally. Then if you still need a valve you won't be restricting as much flow because it was already slowed down.

 

[TRX559]

Here are some early pictures of my setup.

 

[Bill1974]

There are multiple ways to address this. As you have seen your current set up is a bit oversized. It can be tweaked to work, but it might end up putting to much load on the pump.

• Put a tee out of the filter with a valve that can divert some of the water back to pond w/o going to the waterfall. (need to figure out how to get the excess water back to the pool)
• Put a valve on the inlet side of the pump to restrict the flow of the water into the pump (may overload the pump)
• make changes to the water as newdude mentioned (you may end up with rapids/whitewater and not a gentile waterfall)
• make your waterfall larger to handle the flow
• make the waterfall taller (close to the head pressure of the pump)
• replace the pump with lower flow pump (you may end up choosing a wrong size pump again)
• replace the pump with a vsp pump (costly lesson, but will me the most efficient to run)
• make a small pool of water at the top of the water fall. The small pool would feed the waterfall, kind of like backed up toilet overflowing. The water is the small pool slows down the incoming water from the filter.

You need to figure out how much gpm (max) your waterfall can handle. How is you hose water pressure and flow? if you have good pressure and flow it's usually around 10 gpm. You can also get an estimate by pouring 5 gallon buckets of water down it to get a feel for how much gpm you are looking for (might be possible up to 50 gpm or so if you have enough buckets)

 

[TRX559]

There are multiple ways to address this. As you have seen your current set up is a bit oversized. It can be tweaked to work, but it might end up putting to much load on the pump.

• Put a tee out of the filter with a valve that can divert some of the water back to pond w/o going to the waterfall. (need to figure out how to get the excess water back to the pool)
• Put a valve on the inlet side of the pump to restrict the flow of the water into the pump (may overload the pump)
• make changes to the water as newdude mentioned (you may end up with rapids/whitewater and not a gentile waterfall)
• make your waterfall larger to handle the flow
• make the waterfall taller (close to the head pressure of the pump)
• replace the pump with lower flow pump (you may end up choosing a wrong size pump again)
• replace the pump with a vsp pump (costly lesson, but will me the most efficient to run)
• make a small pool of water at the top of the water fall. The small pool would feed the waterfall, kind of like backed up toilet overflowing. The water is the small pool slows down the incoming water from the filter.

You need to figure out how much gpm (max) your waterfall can handle. How is you hose water pressure and flow? if you have good pressure and flow it's usually around 10 gpm. You can also get an estimate by pouring 5 gallon buckets of water down it to get a feel for how much gpm you are looking for (might be possible up to 50 gpm or so if you have enough buckets)

So do you think that if I make multiple small pools at the top of my waterfall, that will so the incoming water rate? I will attach a photo of what I believe you are talking about. Essentially, i have a 3 foot area at the top of my waterfall. The outlet pops up in the back of this area and the water is free to run down the slight slope with gravity to the edge of the first drop off. I can build concrete walls/gates (lack of a better word) that cut this area at the top of the fall into three different reservoirs/pools. The middle of the front concrete wall can be slightly lower than the rest allowing water to flow to the next reservoir before overflowing out the sides.

Do you believe this can slow down the amount of water coming from the filter? And do you think that this will result in a more natural flow down the water fall?

Also another test I ran was with a water hose. When placing the water hose at the back of the top of the waterfall, near the current outlet line, it creates a peaceful flow that achieves the look I'm going for. How do I replicate the water hose with a pump that is strong enough to push water to the top of the fall.

 

[TRX559]

I hope this childish drawing makes sense.

 

[Bill1974]

A garden hose is around 10 gpm. You can test to see how long it takes to fill a 5 gallon bucket (10 gpm would be 30 seconds). If it's longer your flow is even less. Your pump is 2400 GPH or about 40 gpm. Probably a little less since there is restriction from the filter and it's pumping up a few feet too. So it's about 4 times the amount of water as you want.

I am guessing 40 gpm is going to to much for your waterfall. The pools at the top are not going to change that. The cover as Newdude described will stop the water shooting up but it's not going to reduce the flowrate. I think a cover like this is an attractive partial fix. if you put something like this in, it would probably be good idea to make it removable for service if it ever leaks and to prevent something from falling down it when the pump is not on.

You will also need to diverter a portion of the water so it does not go to the water fall.

If you try to just restrict the flow in to out of the pump, check to make sure the pump is not overloaded, it's only rated for 3.6A. Use and amp clamp or a power meter to check the current draw of the pump.

You may also want to put a check valve in so the pump and filter don't drain every time the pump turns off.

 

[TRX559]

A garden hose is around 10 gpm. You can test to see how long it takes to fill a 5 gallon bucket (10 gpm would be 30 seconds). If it's longer your flow is even less. Your pump is 2400 GPH or about 40 gpm. Probably a little less since there is restriction from the filter and it's pumping up a few feet too. So it's about 4 times the amount of water as you want.

I am guessing 40 gpm is going to to much for your waterfall. The pools at the top are not going to change that. The cover as Newdude described will stop the water shooting up but it's not going to reduce the flowrate. I think a cover like this is an attractive partial fix. if you put something like this in, it would probably be good idea to make it removable for service if it ever leaks and to prevent something from falling down it when the pump is not on.

You will also need to diverter a portion of the water so it does not go to the water fall.

If you try to just restrict the flow in to out of the pump, check to make sure the pump is not overloaded, it's only rated for 3.6A. Use and amp clamp or a power meter to check the current draw of the pump.

You may also want to put a check valve in so the pump and filter don't drain every time the pump turns off.

Ok great information, thank you.

From the sounds of it, I have to try a new pump to get the desired gpm/gph that would work for my waterfall.

I have a few more questions. Looking at different pumps on the market and comparing them based of the garden hose gpm estimate, I can only find cartridge filter pumps or submersible pumps which have the lowest gpm/gph.

I tested a 330gph cartridge pump that I have setup for my kids little pool. The test was to see if it was strong enough to push the water up the 6 feet to the top of my waterfall. I didn't connect it to my pond/waterfall setup, I just held the outlet hose of the cartridge filter over my head. The pump was able to push the water up, in my test.

My question is, if i use a cartridge filter pump or submersible pump can I still run the outlet through my sand filter to hopefully keep my pond clean? Or will it not work to have a cartridge filter pump with low gpm push water through the sand filter plus still going up the 6 feet?

Also what is your thoughts on submersible pumps

 

[Bill1974]

Tee into the line after the sand filter and put a valves on the line to the waterfall and the line out of the tee that needs to go back to the pond. Open both valves and see if that reduces the flow to the waterfall enough. If not, close the valve to the waterfall a little at a time until the flow is what you want. If the flow to the waterfall is not enough leave the waterfall valve open and close the other valve a little at time until you get the flow you want.

Messing with a different pump you're likely going to need to the same fiddling to make it work right just to a smaller degree.

Restricting the flow these pumps is okay to a point, it would probably work fine through the sand filter till it get dirty. It may slowly overload the pump and cause it to fail sooner. I am not up on my pond pumps and filtering, what I have seen is the pump feeds water to a filter and the water goes through the filter by gravity. if the filter is clogged water would just overflow the filter and go into the pond. In this case the pump is not restricted by the filter.